A Little Confused Right Now

[atkegar]

Hi folks. Right now, I am a little confused about what I think. What I do know is that I do not belive in the "Man Upstairs" as for God. But at times, I do come up with a different idea about "God", even perhaps seeing the Big Bang itself as God. I know most of us on this site came from either Evangelical, Pentecostal, or Fundamental Xanity, while I came from Mainline Protestantism. I do know that there are those within Mainline Protestantism who see God more as "Ground of Being", and somehow relate to Christ in that way. There is a part of me that is drawn to that (for I always liked Xtian worship, especially in latter years liturgical worship). But my head wants to say there is no God. My question for some of the atheists here is once they committed to atheism, were there second thoughts?

[Guest Valk0010]

Doubt is a good thing. You should always try to doubt your convictions.

[Serendipity Rose]

The only way to find out what it is that you do believe, is to learn about lots of other belief systems. I don't believe there is any such thing as being "committed to atheism". You have to find out what is right for you. Just like with anything else, if you are just around atheists that won't accept your search for your own truth, keep looking, don't let negative people keep you back. Once you have learned what is important to you, you will feel more confident.

 

I didn't come from a fundy background either. It took me years to decide what I believe. I happened to settle on agnostic atheist just because I don't think it matters one way or another. I also claim humanism as my system of ethics. Keep searching...

[Kaiser01]

It depends upon your definition of this nature God. sounds like pantheism to me, But i find that there is no God involved because we have no need of one. Sure we can attribute the big bang as a kind of deity but it is just our application, not real world natures. I see no God in the world because God is not nessesary, when most Christians say that God put the physical laws in place, but no physisit needed God to solve an equation. We can attach God or some kind of pantheism to the natural world but it adds nothing to the equation, it is a dangling modifier. I think you may just be having a crisis of purpose within the universe, but you will find your way.

[merck]

I grew up in an evangelical family but went to a more moderate to liberal church and adopted a more liberal theology once I left home. It took me several months before I was really comfortable with my atheism. In fact, I would go back in forth between thinking the entire thing was stupid to wanting to be apart of the church again several times a week for several months. It's normal. Some people are able to let go in a few days, some need several months. It can take the more emotional part of the mind a while to catch up with the more logical part.

 

I see you use the phrase "Ground of all Being." Are you familar with Bishop John Shelby Spong? He is a retired minister who pushes to reform the church into "non-theistic" Christianity. His concept of God is similar to pantheism and describes it as "the ground of all being." If you haven't heard of him, there are several lectures he gives on youtube and he has several really good books. Also, you may want to check out a Unitarian church.

[sarahlee]

I question it, espicially when I go to church, but like Valk said, I should really be questioning everything.

 

Usually the questions seem to dissolve when I go back to reality, but still.

[Guest wester]

I never really committed to atheism because it seems to as set in stone as any other strict ideology and sort of unconsciously props up theism as a diametric opposite. I prefer to say I am agnostic, in that I don't (effing) know. The more I know, the more I know that I don't know. I like Socrates because he had the humility and strength to say "All that I know is that I know nothing. And for that he was proclaimed the wisest man in Athens (didn't they talk to any women back then?).

 

Anyway, lots of people want hard, fast answers and certainty that they can hang their hat on. One of the most difficult problems is to become comfortable in a universe where change is constant and uncertainty rules.

 

Sometimes I think the best way is to learn how to swing with it all - like musicians Benny Goodman, John Coltrane, Toots and the Maytals, AC/DC - improvise - just catch the waves and rock with them and don't cry when the wave ends because you can be sure that another will be crashing upon you before you know it. When you calcify your woldview, you'll be sure to cluelessly miss some of the best parts of being alive and being human.

 

And another beneficial practice for me has been to learn to change perspective. To try to see the world from different points of view. At different times I have impersonated a Taoist, a Hindu, a Confucian, an American Indian, a Labor Union Organizer, a Catholic Worker, Nietzche, Epictitus, a Marxist, a Thai Buddhist, a Korean Zen mystic and Hillbilly Metal Head. All to my great benefit. When things go strange, I try to alter my point of view (sometimes by the hour or the minute) in order to assimilate and deal with things as they come up in a healthful way.

 

Life is a great adventure. Hang tough and keep exploring.

[atkegar]

I grew up in an evangelical family but went to a more moderate to liberal church and adopted a more liberal theology once I left home. It took me several months before I was really comfortable with my atheism. In fact, I would go back in forth between thinking the entire thing was stupid to wanting to be apart of the church again several times a week for several months. It's normal. Some people are able to let go in a few days, some need several months. It can take the more emotional part of the mind a while to catch up with the more logical part.

 

I see you use the phrase "Ground of all Being." Are you familar with Bishop John Shelby Spong? He is a retired minister who pushes to reform the church into "non-theistic" Christianity. His concept of God is similar to pantheism and describes it as "the ground of all being." If you haven't heard of him, there are several lectures he gives on youtube and he has several really good books. Also, you may want to check out a Unitarian church.

 

I am familiar with Bishop Spong, and I did read one of his books recently. Actually, I think the phrase originated with Mid 20th Century Theolgian Paul Tillich (he actually left Germany in the 30's for the US). There is a local UU, and I am intrigued by it too.

[Inqui]

"Only God and certain madmen have no doubts."

 

I know it's a Christian quote, but I think it's still a good one to use. If you know everything, you're doing it wrong.

[oddbird1963]

So, in what way is the ground of being "God?" Is it really necessary to assign the word "God" to the ground of being? Why not just create a new word, "Gob?"

 

I can't think of a context where the use of the word "God" didn't bring with it a host of attributes and definitions. Once you define God you limit God and therefore God, being "formed" by our words ceases to be "God."

 

I think this is a Taoist concept,:

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

 

I personally think that the Taoist approach boils down to "sit down, shut up and take in the wonder of existence."

 

Maybe you'd prefer to see yourself as both a non-theist and a non-atheist. It seems contradictory, but that's a paradox I can live with.

[Voice]

You're asking from the perspective that we must be one or the other. You said commitment.

[mcdaddy]

So, in what way is the ground of being "God?" Is it really necessary to assign the word "God" to the ground of being? Why not just create a new word, "Gob?"

 

I can't think of a context where the use of the word "God" didn't bring with it a host of attributes and definitions. Once you define God you limit God and therefore God, being "formed" by our words ceases to be "God."

 

I think this is a Taoist concept,:

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

 

I personally think that the Taoist approach boils down to "sit down, shut up and take in the wonder of existence."

 

Maybe you'd prefer to see yourself as both a non-theist and a non-atheist. It seems contradictory, but that's a paradox I can live with.

 

Agnostic?

[Akheia]

It's interesting that you mention steering clear of the worst abuses of the Christian faith, but if you're in a watered-down version of it, you're still soaking in atrocity, in my opinion. There isn't that much difference in my eyes between wishy-washy Christianity and full tits-out Christianity, speaking as someone who went the gamut from Catholic to Pentecostal.

 

I also think it'd be a good idea to investigate other religions. It sounds like you're trying to jerry-rig Christianity to fit your view of the cosmos, but there may be a faith system out there that is already out of the box what you want. Might be worth figuring out what about it really appeals to you, and find some way of honoring that without dipping your toes into barbaric Middle Eastern death cults.

 

I am not an atheist, but I don't think atheists "commit" to their mindset. I haven't yet met one who said that even if he had utter proof of a god's existence he wouldn't reconsider his stance. I'm the same way. What I am is a committed ex-Christian. If Yahweh/Jesus wants to prove he exists, then I'll happily say I believe he exists. But I would never become a Christian again and would not worship a bloodthirsty, vengeful, oppressive and cruel monster like him. I know the main core of the Christian faith is totally baseless and disproven bullshit. It's up to you of course--it's your life--but I think that figuring out what draws you to the parts of Christianity you like might be worth the effort and bring you to a far higher place spiritually than trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[mcdaddy]

Tits out xianity?

 

Don't they get beads for that?

[Akheia]

They get a shot on "Fundies Gone Wild."

[oddbird1963]

So, in what way is the ground of being "God?" Is it really necessary to assign the word "God" to the ground of being? Why not just create a new word, "Gob?"

 

I can't think of a context where the use of the word "God" didn't bring with it a host of attributes and definitions. Once you define God you limit God and therefore God, being "formed" by our words ceases to be "God."

 

I think this is a Taoist concept,:

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

 

I personally think that the Taoist approach boils down to "sit down, shut up and take in the wonder of existence."

 

Maybe you'd prefer to see yourself as both a non-theist and a non-atheist. It seems contradictory, but that's a paradox I can live with.

 

Agnostic?

 

I could live with non-theist, non-atheist, non-agnostic. It makes no sense, I know. I'm trying to get my head around Eastern/taoist thought patterns. I may be doing a bad job of it too.

 

It just seems to me that "God" is a useless word since it can mean so many things to so many people. I'm actually an atheist when it comes to all the gods I know about. I guess I'm an agnostic when it comes to the existence of a "God." But what does "God" mean anyway. I think even using the generic word "God" short circuits the kind of enlightenment one is seeking through personal spirituality (whatever that word means).

[Guest Xtech]

I never really committed to atheism because it seems to as set in stone as any other strict ideology and sort of unconsciously props up theism as a diametric opposite. I prefer to say I am agnostic, in that I don't (effing) know. The more I know, the more I know that I don't know. I like Socrates because he had the humility and strength to say "All that I know is that I know nothing. And for that he was proclaimed the wisest man in Athens (didn't they talk to any women back then?).

 

Anyway, lots of people want hard, fast answers and certainty that they can hang their hat on. One of the most difficult problems is to become comfortable in a universe where change is constant and uncertainty rules.

 

Sometimes I think the best way is to learn how to swing with it all - like musicians Benny Goodman, John Coltrane, Toots and the Maytals, AC/DC - improvise - just catch the waves and rock with them and don't cry when the wave ends because you can be sure that another will be crashing upon you before you know it. When you calcify your woldview, you'll be sure to cluelessly miss some of the best parts of being alive and being human.

 

And another beneficial practice for me has been to learn to change perspective. To try to see the world from different points of view. At different times I have impersonated a Taoist, a Hindu, a Confucian, an American Indian, a Labor Union Organizer, a Catholic Worker, Nietzche, Epictitus, a Marxist, a Thai Buddhist, a Korean Zen mystic and Hillbilly Metal Head. All to my great benefit. When things go strange, I try to alter my point of view (sometimes by the hour or the minute) in order to assimilate and deal with things as they come up in a healthful way.

 

Life is a great adventure. Hang tough and keep exploring.

 

Omigosh what a wonderful post ^.

 

To the OP you are not alone with your questions. And, in a way, it does not matter what you declare your beliefs to be, or what the label is that may apply to you. There seem to be all sorts of definitions of God, including something that may be described as the ineffable, the spirit and joy of being alive, the wonder of the natural world, the sense of commonality with your fellow human being.

 

The mystery is part of the fun of it all. Embrace the journey.

[midniterider]

Hi folks. Right now, I am a little confused about what I think. What I do know is that I do not belive in the "Man Upstairs" as for God. But at times, I do come up with a different idea about "God", even perhaps seeing the Big Bang itself as God. I know most of us on this site came from either Evangelical, Pentecostal, or Fundamental Xanity, while I came from Mainline Protestantism. I do know that there are those within Mainline Protestantism who see God more as "Ground of Being", and somehow relate to Christ in that way. There is a part of me that is drawn to that (for I always liked Xtian worship, especially in latter years liturgical worship). But my head wants to say there is no God. My question for some of the atheists here is once they committed to atheism, were there second thoughts?

 

There is no requirement that one MUST be on one side or the other side. One can flip flop between sides. And there are many side from which you can flip and flop. There is no requirement in life that you have to label yourself as atheist, xian, pagan, whatever. You CAN believe some of this and some of that and be just fine. :-) People use labels all the time but I suspect that people's belief's and philosophy are a mishmash of different things even though they may strongly identify with a particular label. So relax, no need to 'make a decision.' The world will most likely remain the same no matter what you call yourself. :-)

[J.W.]

Nothing wrong with being open minded. Spirituality-- thinking that there may be something more is a perfectly natural and human trait. Doubt doesn't hurt either-- unless it crippling and keeps you from committing to a decision.

 

The spiritual part of life really is an art. There is no right and wrong. Its like music. It is there for its own sake. The point of the melody is the melody. Nothing more.

 

Anything above our sensibilities is beyond our control or true understanding.

 

Do what works for you-- if it doesn't-- then change it.

[Serendipity Rose]

I never really committed to atheism because it seems to as set in stone as any other strict ideology and sort of unconsciously props up theism as a diametric opposite. I prefer to say I am agnostic, in that I don't (effing) know. The more I know, the more I know that I don't know. I like Socrates because he had the humility and strength to say "All that I know is that I know nothing. And for that he was proclaimed the wisest man in Athens (didn't they talk to any women back then?).

 

Anyway, lots of people want hard, fast answers and certainty that they can hang their hat on. One of the most difficult problems is to become comfortable in a universe where change is constant and uncertainty rules.

 

Sometimes I think the best way is to learn how to swing with it all - like musicians Benny Goodman, John Coltrane, Toots and the Maytals, AC/DC - improvise - just catch the waves and rock with them and don't cry when the wave ends because you can be sure that another will be crashing upon you before you know it. When you calcify your woldview, you'll be sure to cluelessly miss some of the best parts of being alive and being human.

 

And another beneficial practice for me has been to learn to change perspective. To try to see the world from different points of view. At different times I have impersonated a Taoist, a Hindu, a Confucian, an American Indian, a Labor Union Organizer, a Catholic Worker, Nietzche, Epictitus, a Marxist, a Thai Buddhist, a Korean Zen mystic and Hillbilly Metal Head. All to my great benefit. When things go strange, I try to alter my point of view (sometimes by the hour or the minute) in order to assimilate and deal with things as they come up in a healthful way.

 

Life is a great adventure. Hang tough and keep exploring.

 

 

 

 

 

Omigosh what a wonderful post ^.

 

To the OP you are not alone with your questions. And, in a way, it does not matter what you declare your beliefs to be, or what the label is that may apply to you. There seem to be all sorts of definitions of God, including something that may be described as the ineffable, the spirit and joy of being alive, the wonder of the natural world, the sense of commonality with your fellow human being.

 

The mystery is part of the fun of it all. Embrace the journey.

 

Labeling your belief system is a personal thing. The truth is, a label doesn't change who you are. I've attached many different labels to myself over the years. It's good to continually re-evaluate what you believe according to the new things you've learned.

 

The important thing is to search, and keep searching. Even when you find something you are comfortable with. I don't believe in the Christian God or any other god. But I also don't "know" whether there is some "force", magnetic or spiritual or otherwise, that could be considered god-like. So sometimes I call myself an agnostic atheist, only because I don't think that whether there is a god or not makes any difference to how we live our lives.

 

I've avoided using the term "atheist" when confronted by people whom I think are believers in the Christian God. Why? Because I know they have pre-conceived notions of what an atheist is and I don't know if they are willing to consider that they might be wrong or not. I usually just tell them I'm a humanist or that I'm not a believer and let them mull it over for themselves.

 

However, I do like to listen to some more open-minded "strong" atheists that tend to think we should all be using the term "atheist". I hadn't really heard a good argument, yet, that convinced me that I should. I just watched Cristina Rad's video on this subject and this is the most plausible argument I have heard so far.

 

But, I still don't think that all non-believers should feel that it is their responsibility to "commit" to atheism. We each have different circumstances and no one should feel guilty about how they choose to label themselves IMO.

[mcdaddy]

Great points by Cris. Love that chick. Her mind makes me tingle in my special parts.

[blackpudd1n]

Hi folks. Right now, I am a little confused about what I think. What I do know is that I do not belive in the "Man Upstairs" as for God. But at times, I do come up with a different idea about "God", even perhaps seeing the Big Bang itself as God. I know most of us on this site came from either Evangelical, Pentecostal, or Fundamental Xanity, while I came from Mainline Protestantism. I do know that there are those within Mainline Protestantism who see God more as "Ground of Being", and somehow relate to Christ in that way. There is a part of me that is drawn to that (for I always liked Xtian worship, especially in latter years liturgical worship). But my head wants to say there is no God. My question for some of the atheists here is once they committed to atheism, were there second thoughts?

 

Atheism was a natural progression for me. This isn't something I made a decision about; it was just something that occured. Kind of a non-event, really.

 

When I deconverted, in all honesty, I thought I was heading for paganism. But I decided to just sit on the fence for a while and not pressure myself to make any decision about my beliefs or lack of beliefs. Instead, I continued to investigate and research, and after three months I realised while making a cup of tea one day that I was an atheist. I had enough reasons, I'd done enough research, and everything was pointing towards there being no god.

 

As an atheist, I recognise that I am an atheist on the balance of probabilities, that are tipped overwhelmingly in favour of there being no deity. I hope that one day we will advance enough as a species to be able to determine once and for all the answer to the age-old question of whether there is any diety out there. However, even if there is a diety, that diety does not seem too concerned that I pay it/them no regard. And so, I just get on with life.

 

I mean, really, if there is a diety out there, it/they don't seem too intent on revealing it/themselves.

[mcdaddy]

Hi folks. Right now, I am a little confused about what I think. What I do know is that I do not belive in the "Man Upstairs" as for God. But at times, I do come up with a different idea about "God", even perhaps seeing the Big Bang itself as God. I know most of us on this site came from either Evangelical, Pentecostal, or Fundamental Xanity, while I came from Mainline Protestantism. I do know that there are those within Mainline Protestantism who see God more as "Ground of Being", and somehow relate to Christ in that way. There is a part of me that is drawn to that (for I always liked Xtian worship, especially in latter years liturgical worship). But my head wants to say there is no God. My question for some of the atheists here is once they committed to atheism, were there second thoughts?

 

Atheism was a natural progression for me. This isn't something I made a decision about; it was just something that occured. Kind of a non-event, really.

 

When I deconverted, in all honesty, I thought I was heading for paganism. But I decided to just sit on the fence for a while and not pressure myself to make any decision about my beliefs or lack of beliefs. Instead, I continued to investigate and research, and after three months I realised while making a cup of tea one day that I was an atheist. I had enough reasons, I'd done enough research, and everything was pointing towards there being no god.

 

As an atheist, I recognise that I am an atheist on the balance of probabilities, that are tipped overwhelmingly in favour of there being no deity. I hope that one day we will advance enough as a species to be able to determine once and for all the answer to the age-old question of whether there is any diety out there. However, even if there is a diety, that diety does not seem too concerned that I pay it/them no regard. And so, I just get on with life.

 

I mean, really, if there is a diety out there, it/they don't seem too intent on revealing it/themselves.

 

That question will never be answered. Moving "god can't be detected" goalposts.

[blackpudd1n]

That question will never be answered. Moving "god can't be detected" goalposts.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand, McD. Care to enlighten the confused?

[mcdaddy]

That question will never be answered. Moving "god can't be detected" goalposts.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand, McD. Care to enlighten the confused?

 

No matter how well we can peer into the cosmos or into the umpteenth dimension or whatever, god will ALWAYS be just outside our purview acc to religionists. soon as we figure it all out, they'll find a way to place god outside that "box". Convenient.