blackpudd1n Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I used to be like that Margee. For me, it arose out of a need to "people-please". My self-worth was too low so I looked for affirmation from everyone else around me. However, the more you try to please others, the more people will take advantage of you, and I just reached the point one day when it had happened one too many times. After that, like dad says, my "givashit" broke. And it's been breaking ever since. Doesn't mean I don't care about people, it just means that I care less and less what anyone thinks of me. There's a huge difference between the two. Hey Margee, I relate to all this, too, big time. One thing occurs to me about what Pudd' said/ about what you said, Pudd'... If I remember right, Pudd was living with her abusive mother and one day walked out and started her own life, went through lots of tough times and came out of it stronger. I grew up with an abusive mother and, though I almost did walk out (left but came back because of her pleading and because I decided not to leave my sister alone there), much of me tried to "fix things", if not make her act as though she loved me, at least placate her. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why things were the way they were, whether there was something wrong with me, what I SHOULD do and think. Christianity attracted me, and when I became a Christian, I bought into it because the big all-powerful sky father forgave me and told me I was OK. Later of course I realized the same shit was going on, even worse. Years later I found out more about my mother's mental illnesses and evidence that she may have been abused as a girl, so it made it easier to get free of the effects of what I grew up with. But had I just walked out of there at 15 -- I might be dead today, or in prison, or, like Pudd', I might have put together a pretty strong adult self. The distinction between caring for other people as moral ends and the healthy "givashit" breaking point is such a good one. Down with adjusting ourselves to win approval of abusive figures in our heads. Hey ficino, It was the same for me with regards to trying to find out why my mother was the way she was/is. For a decade, I had a compulsion to work out what made her behave the way she did. The idea that she did not love me or accept me the way I am was too much for me to bear, so I sought any excuse I could get my hands on, even to the extent of investigating her background. I just wanted an explanation. But instead, I kept coming up empty. While she came from a religious home, everyone that knew my grandparents loved them. There was no abuse; her parents, unusually for that era, didn't believe in striking their children. They weren't rich, but they had everything they needed, and the farm sustained them as long as my grandparents lived. My grandmother was musically gifted, and my grandfather was very intelligent. They would take disabled children to the beach in summer, believing that the saltwater and fresh air would do them good. I couldn't find a bad word about them. I tried blaming my mother's epilepsy. A very small percentage of people become violent when they fit and go into rages. But that would not explain the rest of her behaviour, the manipulation, control, and cruelty. Finally, a couple of years ago, I accidentally stumbled on the answer: my mother is a psychopath/sociopath. I didn't want to believe it, but the more I researched, the more boxes she ticked. I had told my psych nurse about my suspicions, and I think she was a little dubious, until a letter came from my mother, which I showed her. She just read it, and looked at me, and said, "my god, she is a psychopath!" She didn't ask me how I was. She wrote as though my sister did not exist- there was not a single mention of her. It was all about her, with some delightful guilt trips thrown in for good measure. So now, I know that there is nothing I could have done, excepting for what I have done: walk away and don't look back. Accepting that your own mother doesn't love you, because she can't feel those emotions, accepting that she has no ability to empathise with you or anyone else, is hard. But what can I do? I am the child of a psychopath, and that random gene ruined my family. Thankfully most of my extended family are just glad that I turned out differently. Even so, some are very wary of me. And the only aunt I had died before I had a chance to meet her, and the only reason one of my cousins gave me a chance was because she told her that either one or both of us (my sister and I) would come knocking one day, and she wouldn't turn us away, even after my mother scammed her out of her inheritance. And she was right; I came knocking. But I was four years too late. And my cousin had to tell me my family's history, and why no-one spoke to us at her funeral. But I have learnt that blood isn't the be-all and end-all in life. I stick like glue to good people and I walk away from toxic people. As long as no-one intentionally hurts me, they're good with me. And I'm done justifying my existence to the world. I'm not here to cause anyone else grief, so if someone doesn't like me, that's their problem. They can worry about it, because I'm not going to anymore. I'm done with all of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 22, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think it's probably harder for recent female de-converts to lose the habits of people pleasing and justifying everything to your betters. In time, you'll give less and less of a shit. Not in a mean way, but as a matter of fact, honey badger way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I loved that, "my givashit broke." That's awesome. And Florduh is right, I think as we grow and learn and move past our indoctrination, those old habits will fall away. It'd be neat to make a sociological study of female vs. male deconverts to see what gender differences might exist--I've often thought that women seem to get past some aspects more slowly, and others more quickly than men. As more and more people leave the Christian faith I bet we'll see some interesting insights come out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 22, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2012 On the other hand, some people pleasers and justifiers do it because THEY are very judgemental and think EVERYONE is like they are. ^ This!! This is one hell of a point to think about. I know for sure that I am very hard on myself and I judge myself harshly, but am I doing that deep inside (judging) against everyone unconciously? Because I always felt that I didn't judge people ....... How fucking 'pure' do I think I am?? Can you explain a little further Sybaris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2012 On the other hand, some people pleasers and justifiers do it because THEY are very judgemental and think EVERYONE is like they are. ^ This!! This is one hell of a point to think about. I know for sure that I am very hard on myself and I judge myself harshly, but am I doing that deep inside (judging) against everyone unconciously? Because I always felt that I didn't judge people ....... How fucking 'pure' do I think I am?? Can you explain a little further Sybaris? Could it be that we project our own insecurities on others and make them out to be judges, focused in on our faults, when our faults may not be the first things on their minds after all? I'm sure that we do a little bit of that... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Could it be that we project our own insecurities on others and make them out to be judges, focused in on our faults, when our faults may not be the first things on their minds after all? I'm sure that we do a little bit of that... I definitely, definitely, definitely do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Can you explain a little further Sybaris? The person I was speaking of is one who is critical of those around them, not of themselves, so assumes everyone else is critical of everyone else as well. As a result they spend an inordinate amount of time doing things to please other people and gain [imagined] approval. You don't seem to fit this though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 23, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2012 Can you explain a little further Sybaris? The person I was speaking of is one who is critical of those around them, not of themselves, so assumes everyone else is critical of everyone else as well. As a result they spend an inordinate amount of time doing things to please other people and gain [imagined] approval. You don't seem to fit this though. You might be right on Syaris! I expect a lot from myself but I think i expect too much from other people also and I have felt let down many times in my life. I tried not to come across judgemental, but i think if I scratched just below the surface... and I was honest....I might find someone who has held 'secret' grudges all my life!! I have to think about this and get back to you later. Can anyone else relate to this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Absolutely I can relate. When I began having PTSD hallucinations, I went into therapy and the therapist, while an idiot who didn't know PTSD when a textbook case was staring her in her face, immediately put me through anger management therapy. I was shocked to discover just how ANGRY I really was. I had always held a grudge against my mom and dad, my sister, people around me, always been just simmering with anger. It was very shocking to me! I'd always thought I was a really mellow person. Nope! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryBerry Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I can totally relate. I used to be a people pleaser. When I was a teenager, I decided to stop wearing jewelry and make-up because I wanted to look more Christian. I wanted to be accepted by my new pentecostal friends. Once I turned 18, I went on a shopping spree for jewlery and make-up once I noticed that guys my age were not attracted to plain Janes. I made sure that I found a verse to support my new change of style. In my twenties, I became a prayer warrior to become more spiritual or simply to give the appearance of being spiritual. Pentecostals love spiritual people. They love those you can raise the roof with incessant prayer...the ones who who fought spiritual warfare on a daily basis...the ones who knew 'The Word'. I also volunteered for a lot of ministries because I wanted to be accepted and liked. I almost had a nervous breakdown one year because I couldn't juggle the numerous ministries that I was involved in and a full-time job. I felt like I needed to justify my actions, the way I dressed, the career that I chose, the way I wore my hair. Or, just why I wore hair extensions instead of my natural hair. Every day, I found myself justifying why I did the things that I did. I must say that once I diched Christianity, I said "fuck it!", I will just be myself. I have felt free since then. It didn't happen overnight. It took me 2 years to be free!!!! My favorite line is: "You don't pay my bills, you can't tell me what to do." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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