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think the most. I was googleing and came across this: You have got to be fucking kidding me

 

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

 

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

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... Yeah, I'll get back to you on this one. I am however, glad to hear you say you got questions about this stuff.

 

If you ask a another christian - a friend, pastor, mentor, theologian... please, please, please don't accept "fluff" answers from them on passages like this one. kk?thxGONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

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... Yeah, I'll get back to you on this one. I am however, glad to hear you say you got questions about this stuff.

 

If you ask a another christian - a friend, pastor, mentor, theologian... please, please, please don't accept "fluff" answers from them on passages like this one. kk?thxGONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

I would never ask a christian about anything Biblical. the answers will be biased. I need straight answers. All I did was google human sacrifice and the Bible. One may argue Abraham was being tested. What I posted above was no test.

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After a time, many of the abused will vigorously defend their abuser. Stockholm Syndrome fits religion perfectly, Christianity in particular. That is the basis of apologetics used to explain or justify obvious problems with the cruel and capricious deity they have been brainwashed to believe is real.

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I was googleing Jephthah and the explanations given are not even worth mentioning. Long drawn out bullshit.

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I was googleing Jephthah and the explanations given are not even worth mentioning. Long drawn out bullshit.

 

Read my extimony if you haven't already. I spent much time on apologist sites well before finding this one or atheist sites. The excuses they gave were pathetic beyond words.

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Want a simple explanation?

 

In the 5th century BCE, Ezra & company were sent from Babylon to set up a client Kingdom. They had a mystery religion that had developed in Babylon. When they got to Jerusalem they found friendly and hostile tribes. So they took material and concepts from their own religion and weaved them together with material and concepts from the various religions of the friendly locals and created the Old Testament. The goal was to give the mixed population a sense of common cultural heritage and a single religion centered around the Jerusalem Temple. That is how the Old Testament wound up with so much baggage. The tradition of "Jephthah's daughter" would have been one of the local customs that had to be incorporated and explained in a way that an Iron Age population would accept.

 

(And of course those local tribes not welcoming Ezra wound up being the bad guys in the Bible. Ezra would make up stories about how their mother got her own father drunk and slept with him and crap like that.)

 

Christianity did much the same thing centuries later. Christianity needed the Old Testament to give the new religion a sense of legitimacy and that is how Christianity got stuck with a bunch of old baggage.

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I was googleing Jephthah and the explanations given are not even worth mentioning. Long drawn out bullshit.

 

Read my extimony if you haven't already. I spent much time on apologist sites well before finding this one or atheist sites. The excuses they gave were pathetic beyond words.

 

Just read it and very interesting. I have never made it through the whole old testament, but what I have read was odd and barbaric. WTF is the idea of a sacrifice anyway, very very odd.

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I was googleing Jephthah and the explanations given are not even worth mentioning. Long drawn out bullshit.

 

Read my extimony if you haven't already. I spent much time on apologist sites well before finding this one or atheist sites. The excuses they gave were pathetic beyond words.

 

Just read it and very interesting. I have never made it through the whole old testament, but what I have read was odd and barbaric. WTF is the idea of a sacrifice anyway, very very odd.

 

One of my 'favorite' related passages is 2 Chronicles 7 when they are dedicating Solomon's temple. Do the math and you'll find that over the seven day period they sacrificed 14 animals per minute, day and night, nonstop.

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Try on Exodus 13:2, and Leviticus 27:28-29.

 

Really think about what it's implying.

 

Exodus is odd, but the leviticus verses are fucked. All this is telling me is the old testament had pagan roots and I woulkd never deidicate some innocent to be destroyed. WTF is with that?

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The very idea of a god treating gods as if they actually exist is proof I think of the jews just trying to develop there own post pagan religion.

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Try on Exodus 13:2, and Leviticus 27:28-29.

 

Really think about what it's implying.

 

Exodus is odd, but the leviticus verses are fucked. All this is telling me is the old testament had pagan roots and I woulkd never deidicate some innocent to be destroyed. WTF is with that?

 

Judaism started polytheistic, in fact there is evidence that YHWH had a wife named Ashera. There were several other Gods present in Jewish culture including one by the name of El, he is actually part of where you get the name, "Israel." If you look at the dead sea scrolls you will find places that say the word "Lord" and "God" in the bible are actually "Ashera" and "El." There is a reason it says in the book of Genesis, "Let us make man in our image."

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"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim.

 

So here is my question;

The lord helped Jephthah. Jephthah asked, made a deal and got what he wanted from god.

 

When in the last 2000 years has anyone asked, had god listen, made a deal, god accepted it and made good on it?

 

NEVER!

 

Clearly the story is a lie. god speaks to no one! Makes deals with no one! And would not ever, in the next 4 billion years, end anyone's suffering.

 

Prayers are never answered. The whole story is a made up tale, and a pretty sick one at that.

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"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim.

 

So here is my question;

The lord helped Jephthah. Jephthah asked, made a deal and got what he wanted from god.

 

When in the last 2000 years has anyone asked, had god listen, made a deal, god accepted it and made good on it?

 

NEVER!

 

Clearly the story is a lie. god speaks to no one! Makes deals with no one! And would not ever, in the next 4 billion years, end anyone's suffering.

 

Prayers are never answered. The whole story is a made up tale, and a pretty sick one at that.

 

That is another issue I have. God popped up a few thousand years ago to the jews, why does he not pop up today?

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Guest Babylonian Dream

Well God used to be everywhere. Abraham was just standing outside his home, when God came to him to tell him about his plans for death and destruction. This God seems to be a huge sadist. He just loves killing, death, and torture. Its everywhere he is in the Bible. Even his covenant with Abraham includes the sexual mutilation of every little boy.

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...I have never made it through the whole old testament, but what I have read was odd and barbaric. WTF is the idea of a sacrifice anyway, very very odd.

 

I read almost all of the bible back when I was working for a heavily christian-influenced (well German lukewarm mainstream christian) organization (hard for the boss to rant if you read scripture inbetween work tasks if he wants to claim he really believes...), sans the apocrypha and most of the acts. Yes I read the entire old testament... and I did it on my own, without any voice in my ear or the back of my head telling me to what result I have to get. I still considered myself a christian then, mind you.

 

But still, I couldn't figure out for the life of mine how anyone today, in this modern age, could think all this bizarre and often inhuman shit should be taken literally. When I learned that babblical literalism is still alive and well in parts of the world it took me some time to accept that this isn't a sick joke. :Hmm:

 

(To be fair, I read much more stuff already, so that I can say I know what I'm talking about... the koran, and even mein kampf and the protocols. These latter ones were really hard to deal with)

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Human sacrifice was part and parcel of the earliest forms of Yahweh worship. "committing/dedicating" the firstborn, initially it was to slit their damn throat. SICK. But the Abraham story tries to erase that part by saying god doesn't REALLY want that, but the remnants are still there in the text that strongly suggest otherwise.

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Human sacrifice was part and parcel of the earliest forms of Yahweh worship. "committing/dedicating" the firstborn, initially it was to slit their damn throat. SICK. But the Abraham story tries to erase that part by saying god doesn't REALLY want that, but the remnants are still there in the text that strongly suggest otherwise.

 

I wish that xians actually tried to use logic and history when discussing things. It is plain as day the sacrifices and human nastiness in the old testament.

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Also, cain kills able and goes out of the area and gets married ???????????????

 

It's because Cain and Able were an older story that was incorporated into the Bible. In the original story Earth didn't have a tiny population who all descended from Cain's mother. That way Cain didn't have to marry his sister.

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think the most. I was googleing and came across this: You have got to be fucking kidding me

 

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

 

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

 

I don't think I'm the only one here, but this exact passage was the one which caused me to realize that the biblical god is man made.

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think the most. I was googleing and came across this: You have got to be fucking kidding me

 

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

 

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

 

I don't think I'm the only one here, but this exact passage was the one which caused me to realize that the biblical god is man made.

 

This passage is totally warped. I will sacrifice the first thing coming out of my house as a burnt offering.

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think the most. I was googleing and came across this: You have got to be fucking kidding me

 

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

 

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

 

I don't think I'm the only one here, but this exact passage was the one which caused me to realize that the biblical god is man made.

 

This passage is totally warped. I will sacrifice the first thing coming out of my house as a burnt offering.

 

What are the chances a non-human would walk out of the house. He knew it would be human, an most certainly family. Maybe he wanted to get rid of her anyway and found an out.

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Here is something new I just learned. Concubines, ya know we all can have them right? Even if you are gay but married to a woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage#Ancient_Roman_Concubinae_and_concubini It's called a concubinus. So again, another contradiction that homosexuality is wrong in the bible. I was actually trying to hunt down the actual hebrew words in Leviticus to see what they were, that's not an easy task.

 

I agree that Jep knew a human would come out of his house, they didn't keep dogs as pets back then and I doubt he had chickens or pigs in the house. I suspect he was either trying to get rid of his wife (or one of his wives???) or he was just a stupid dolt that made a promise before he thought about it.

 

If you read much of the OT it really looks like these people were pretty stupid. Thank bob for evolution and technology.

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