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Can You Help But Do Evil? I Do Not See How. Do You?


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Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

 

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.

That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

 

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

 

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

 

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

 

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

 

Consider.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.

In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

 

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.

Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

 

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

 

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

 

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

 

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

 

These links speak to theistic evolution.

 

www.americamagazine.org...

 

www.youtube.com.../c/6F8036F680C1DBEB

 

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

 

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

 

 

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

 

Regards

DL

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Sin is but a human construct, it holds no physical value, it is a relationship perceived reality and preconceived notions.

 

All our choices and actions will have unforeseen effects, based on the laws of causality. It would be what we could not control and to punish man for what he cannot control.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

You're arguement doesn't matter, who are you to question God? See, its different, because its God. God is immune to moral laws and regulations because he's supremely good and lacks illintent. So he's able to do whatever he wills.

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Sin is but a human construct, it holds no physical value, it is a relationship perceived reality and preconceived notions.

 

All our choices and actions will have unforeseen effects, based on the laws of causality. It would be what we could not control and to punish man for what he cannot control.

 

I agree.

Sin was not at issue though.

It is what the losers of the competitions we win against and what they think of as evil that is.

More from an evolutionary POV.

 

Regards

DL

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You're arguement doesn't matter, who are you to question God? See, its different, because its God. God is immune to moral laws and regulations because he's supremely good and lacks illintent. So he's able to do whatever he wills.

 

Do you not think reciprocity is fair play?

I do.

Why can you play by some rule and will not allow me to play by that same rule?

 

You are judging God.

You have judged him immune to human law.

I have judged that he should not be.

You have judged him supremely good and lacking of ill intent.

I judge the opposite.

 

Do you want to play fairly and discuss it or are you taking your ball home because I demand that reciprocity is fair play and that we both play with the same rules?

 

Regards

DL

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Guest Babylonian Dream

You're arguement doesn't matter, who are you to question God? See, its different, because its God. God is immune to moral laws and regulations because he's supremely good and lacks illintent. So he's able to do whatever he wills.

 

Do you not think reciprocity is fair play?

I do.

Why can you play by some rule and will not allow me to play by that same rule?

 

You are judging God.

You have judged him immune to human law.

I have judged that he should not be.

You have judged him supremely good and lacking of ill intent.

I judge the opposite.

 

Do you want to play fairly and discuss it or are you taking your ball home because I demand that reciprocity is fair play and that we both play with the same rules?

 

Regards

DL

Haha, I was mocking them. I most definitely agree, if its what I must do because its good, moral and just. It's what God must do because its good, moral and just. There is no way around it.

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You're arguement doesn't matter, who are you to question God? See, its different, because its God. God is immune to moral laws and regulations because he's supremely good and lacks illintent. So he's able to do whatever he wills.

 

Do you not think reciprocity is fair play?

I do.

Why can you play by some rule and will not allow me to play by that same rule?

 

You are judging God.

You have judged him immune to human law.

I have judged that he should not be.

You have judged him supremely good and lacking of ill intent.

I judge the opposite.

 

Do you want to play fairly and discuss it or are you taking your ball home because I demand that reciprocity is fair play and that we both play with the same rules?

 

Regards

DL

Haha, I was mocking them. I most definitely agree, if its what I must do because its good, moral and just. It's what God must do because its good, moral and just. There is no way around it.

 

Thanks for this.

 

Regards

DL

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If I create rose, I also created the thorns.

 

Sin comes from God. It's only those within Christianity don't understand this simple concept.

 

I agree.

 

Thing is, we cannot help but sin in terms of doing evil to those we compete against.

That evil id good to evolution though and should be ok with God.

 

Regards

DL

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Guest wester

Sticking people with the blame, while ignoring the environmental influences is the Fallacy of Attribution.

 

Accusing others of having personal problems is the shortcut for intellectually lazy people who want the super easy "out" of picking on the weak and defenseless while skipping the difficult task of analyzing all factors and forcing accountability and responsibility on those with the power to influence the environment, who are at least equally culpable for all these problems.

 

A metaphor for contemporary human relations with power.

 

Cheers.

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