Evangelical Missionaries A Cause Of "agony" In The World

[shadesofgray]

Quite a few missionaries seem to be heading out lately to the barbaric wilds of San Diego, London, Paris, and Honolulu. Very challenging, but at least the people there have adequate defenses against the perky blandishments of these egotists.

I definitely did this for a summer. I went to the unchristianized wilds of Scotland, lol. I'm positive that the experience did far more for me than it did for anyone I "ministered" to

[lunaticheathen]

Things Fall Apart

 

Anyone interested in a better understanding of the impact missionaries have had on Africa, this book is a good place to start. I had to read it for a class when I was in school. It's an interesting and informative read. It gives a fictionalized account of the impact a mission had on an African tribe.

 

This book made me bawl my head off. And I wanted to smack the shit out of ALL the missionaries, even the first "nice" one.

[inorbit]

"Allow the gospel to adapt to their culture"

 

I'm glad to hear some missions groups are attempting to leave a lighter footprint, but the quote above makes it a losing battle. In the end, attempting to impact something as profound as religious belief has to leave a cruel stamp on their culture.

 

ALSO NOTE: It was this very training to question everything and not presume that my culture=truth that eventually led to the demise of my faith.

 

Ha ha. Christians are right to fear a more liberal treatment of their message. My deconversion too was essentially kicked off by reading 'kinder and gentler' material.

 

 

I agree. I hope you didn't take my comment as condoning of it. I was simply explaining their position from their perspective.

[Positivist]

...C1 is like what we're talking about in this thread. Complete cultural conversion. Converts become cultural islands, losing all context and relation to their own culture in every area of their life, often down to even language (though not always). On the other extreme, you have C5 converts. The great thing about C5 converts is that they're the sort that fundies would probably say "aren't real Christians."

Wow, I had no idea there was a classifcation system! Very, very interesting. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum--from completely obliterating a culture/people, to "redeeming the culture" with the gospel in a low impact way. However, at the end of the day, one is still telling another that s/he is wrong in their beliefs, still shoving Jeeziz down people's throats, still being ethnocentric and imperialistic, and still getting people to change their worldview to some degree.

Don't worry... I haven't crawled back or anything.

LOL!

ALSO NOTE: It was this very training to question everything and not presume that my culture=truth that eventually led to the demise of my faith.

And this is the danger with anything less than a C5, isn't it? Such a fragile house of cards!

 

Thanks for sharing, inorbit!

[Wings]

Thanks for explaining that, inorbit! And I really want to check out that book, Vigile!

 

I also find the carrot-stick approach that many people (at least in my church background) have to missions. Sure we'll help you build your house or educate your kids or find you food... but you have to come to church first.

 

I often think that if I could question attendees' actual motives for joining they would be a lot different than a "spiritual calling." So much for real love and compassion.

[LifeCycle]

I've long believed that the tribes were best off left alone. Let everyone go their own way. Stop travelling the world to "inferior" peoples to get them to follow "the one true path". I was reading something about a papua new guinea tribe that after conversion, went downhill, became an impoverished tribe. They gave up their old ways to add up to the better, western christian ways, and it has lead to their unbecoming.

 

A close friend just under a month ago, packed up his wife and 4 kids and now lives there telling them all about Jesus. =( Not only that, PNG is not safe - well not as safe as he was here. The possible threats they face as a family now that they did not face before are far greater in scope and in consequence. At least, that's my opinion.

[Positivist]

I also find the carrot-stick approach that many people (at least in my church background) have to missions. Sure we'll help you build your house or educate your kids or find you food... but you have to come to church first.

I've also seen this in Christian-run homeless outreaches: starving, cold, wet, homeless men have to sit through a church service (including a 40 minute salvation sermon!) before they can have their dinner. Better to harvest their souls than provide for their physical needs!

 

I'm so tired of it all. I hate the bait and switch!

[Akheia]

The PNG thing reminds me -- In one of Scott Adams' Dilbert books he mentions that a woman called him up out of the clear blue sky to announce that she, her husband, and their passel of kids (I want to say 8 or 9) had all moved to Saudi Arabia and were homeless and in danger of starving to death unless he gave them money to survive. Because when she went through her internal list of "people who love missionaries and want to support them no matter what crazy-ass thing they do," Scott fuckin' Adams was #1 on that list apparently. He declined her request and she went ballistic on him.

 

In college I met a young missionary couple with a baby who had apparently taken a plane for Houston with absolutely no provisions for shelter, food, transportation, or anything else. They were dead broke, they said, without a $5 bill to their name, but GOD HAD TOLD THEM THAT HOUSTON NEEDED THEM. Because we just didn't have enough fundamentalist preachers in our fair city. I didn't realize that they were probably scam artists, but thankfully our pastor did. While Evil Ex was off trying (unsuccessfully) to find them somewhere to stay, I chatted with them a bit and the more they talked the more alarmed I got. They were some rabid unloving dumbfuck bunnies, to be sure. I still don't know why God would send missionaries to places that have butt-tons of Christians in them already. Even back then it seemed a bit strange, and now that I've deconverted it's even weirder to think they take that so seriously.

 

Inorbit, what's the 40 on being a missionary in somewhere like Houston or Scotland?

[RedStar]

My Mother went to PnG a couple of years ago when she was working for our local Christian radio station. It was part of the operation Christmas Child event where people fill shoe boxes with gifts for children and they are sent ro a poor country. The hotel she stayed in was surrounded by barbed wire and security guards, and one day she saw a boy that looked around 5 years old carrying a machette. One of the other radio presenters worh her on fhe trip had her expensive camera stolen out of the car she'd been travelling in, but it was insured. Rape is very common over there and this was well known by the radio station. My Mother was happy to go there though, she'd never been overseas in her life. Thankfully she made it through the trip safely.

 

There no speed limits over there, and the pastor they were with put his children in the back of his ute and was traveling at over 100 kms. Not only is the speed high, the roads are very bumpy and it's probably only a matter of time before one of falls out and gets killed. I think you'd have to be nuts to move there!

[inorbit]

The local ministry I worked with until so recently was a breath of fresh air in regards to the carrot-stick theme. They actually did a lot of great stuff in and for the community. There was a soup kitchen, a food pantry, people were free to come in and hang out in the air conditioning/heat as long as they were open. There were free showers, free clothes, they would help you find a job, find a place to live, etc., etc. They gave away 1000's of pounds of groceries, taught work skills, would let people come in and take a shower and give them a free ride to a job interview (including coaching them on interviewing skills and helping them with their resume, if necessary). Helping battered and endangered women, tutoring kids after school, etc., etc.

 

That all takes place in the front half of the building. The back half is a prayer room, where they pray for the community. Obviously, they pray for them to "get saved," but also in general for compassion and mercy, etc. This was also going on as long as the place was open.

 

But anyone could come in. And anyone could receive help or a meal. And there were no strings attached. You did not have to go to a service, say a prayer, go to the prayer room, convert, profess anything, etc., etc. You could curse god till the day you died and they would have treated you no differently and withheld nothing from you.

 

That's why I was able to stay a part of that ministry for so long after my deconversion. Did they want to see all the people "convert?" Sure. But nothing was shoved down their throats and they were shown genuine love and compassion with no strings attached. It is one of the only times I have ever seen a church or ministry do that. And they really did make a very positive impact in the community. They still are. As far as Christian ministry organizations go, they were pretty alright in my book. Sadly, it's a rare example. :-(

[Vigile]

What's up with missions and PNG? This was the destination for missionaries over 25 years ago as well. It's where I wanted to go myself when I went through a short "called to be a missionary" phase.

 

Africa and South America have already been raped and PNG is the last frontier of unwashed natives?

 

BTW, I met an xian missionary from Korea in St Petersburg a few years ago. I freaked him out when I started asking him questions about his faith and the bible. I usually have a strict "keep it to myself" policy, but I have a serious dislike for missionaries and the idea that some asshole evangelicals were trying to move in on Russians really pissed me off. He was a nice enough guy, but he was definitely not ready for a serious challenge to his faith as he had virtually no coherent answers.

[Akheia]

I sent a couple of missionary pairs back to SLC when I was fundie in Houston. They always had a somewhat-coherent one with a somewhat-newbie one and neither really had good answers for anything that I recall. I still have no idea why they got sent to somewhere as civilized as Houston. We might have had gunfights under my bedroom window, but we also had plenty of churches already. Don't fuck with history around someone who knows history. There was never an end to those sessions that ended with "WELL GUESS WE SHOWED YOU BITCH"... it was always "um er well yikes, we'll, uh, pray for you to gain understanding." Yeah, you just do that, punkin.

[Habiba]

In addition to the points above, one thing that really staggers me about missionaries/ christian expats who take it upon themselves to preach is the sheer selfishness and irresponsibility of their actions.

 

Causing someone from many countries, especially those where other religions are staunchly adhered to, to become a Christian can literally sign a death warrant for that person, or at least shatter their lives, leading to life long enmity and estrangement from family and friends. The new convert will invariably spend their lives undercover, on the run, or attempt to leave a country they once loved to seek asylum elsewhere.

 

I often get the impression the missionaries/expats lend little in way of support after they've seen the person converted, as it's a case of "job done, onto the next one". Also, if the shiz ever hits the fan for the missionaries, they will soon be whisked away to an embassy or back to their country of origin. If persecution inevitably comes to a Christian convert, they have nowhere to run and no one to help.

 

I watched this video recently, and it saddened me greatly. It's 15mins but worth a watch, the account of a young Somali woman, in Somalia who was converted to Christianity, and subsequently lost everything. I can imagine xian reactions of "praise de lawrd!" and intolerant comments about the "inherent violence in Islam", and while it pains me to watch the reactions of her Muslim family and community, what pains me more is that the pain caused was so needless. How could those selfish Christians sweep in, and convert her, seemingly mindless of the huge price she would have to pay?!

[Ellwood]

Recently read a great book by a missionary who "deconverted" while working in the Amazon. If only this was a common occurrence. "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes". Dan Everett. Very recommended.

[Positivist]

Recently read a great book by a missionary who "deconverted" while working in the Amazon. If only this was a common occurrence. "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes". Dan Everett. Very recommended.

Yes, it's a great book. Also a Youtube clip on it:

[blackpudd1n]

I think missionaries from Australia's own colonial past helped to create many of the issues Aboriginal communities face today. I can't avoid the fact that, while this country is a rather secular nation now, in the past those christian concepts of the inferiority of dark-skinned people lead to the mistreatment and loss of culture in Aboriginal communities, effectively eroding the sense of self and identity many once had.

 

But here's the thing that really makes me confused. Australia is prone to bushfires. At the moment, the fire brigades are madly back-burning to try and prepare for the upcoming bushfire season. The biggest hazard is all the dead, dry leaves and what-not fueling fires. What I can't work out is why Aboriginals, of whom many still know the old ways, aren't being consulted regarding this. The Aboriginals used to conserve and regenerate the Aussie bush; they would periodically set fire to certain sections to burn off the dry shit and allow regeneration of forestry. They understood the weather patterns and how ferocious the heat would be from summer to summer. At the beginning of last summer, the Elder who lives next door to my parents told me we were in for a very wet season, and he wasn't wrong. They were the original caretakers of this land; why are we not working with them to conserve it? Would that not give them more acknowledgement of their heritage as the first dwellers than all the other stupid shit we have been doing?

[Vigile]

Recently read a great book by a missionary who "deconverted" while working in the Amazon. If only this was a common occurrence. "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes". Dan Everett. Very recommended.

 

I heard on a podcast or somewhere about this. Thanks for the reminder. Sounds like a very interesting story.

[Positivist]

I think missionaries from Australia's own colonial past helped to create many of the issues Aboriginal communities face today. I can't avoid the fact that, while this country is a rather secular nation now, in the past those christian concepts of the inferiority of dark-skinned people lead to the mistreatment and loss of culture in Aboriginal communities, effectively eroding the sense of self and identity many once had.

~snip~

What I can't work out is why Aboriginals, of whom many still know the old ways, aren't being consulted regarding this.

I think Ausralia and Canada have much in common in this regard. Sadly, much valuable traditional knowledge has been expunged by the new (white, Christian) epistemology. Much as been lost.

[Lilith666]

Missionaries are the lowest of the lowest scum. They have for centuries ushered in

acquiescence to colonialists paving a way of

slave-mentality amongst locals so that they can

be exploited by those with guns and aspirations,

among other despicable things.

 

I disagree. They spend the better part of their lives trying to improve the quality of life for people, like providing clean water, adequate housing and education. Unfortunately, they think converting people is most important. They have their priorities in the wrong order.

[Vigile]

Missionaries are the lowest of the lowest scum. They have for centuries ushered in

acquiescence to colonialists paving a way of

slave-mentality amongst locals so that they can

be exploited by those with guns and aspirations,

among other despicable things.

 

I disagree. They spend the better part of their lives trying to improve the quality of life for people, like providing clean water, adequate housing and education. Unfortunately, they think converting people is most important. They have their priorities in the wrong order.

 

Read this and then get back to me: Things Fall Apart