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Is It Possible For You To Go Back?


Guest Babylonian Dream
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Guest Babylonian Dream

A conversation with my brother, ended in him saying that he just doesn't get why I refuse to even consider that the Bible and Christianity are true. This I already knew, when I first heard that someone didn't believe, I was taken aback, I didn't really get it. "you mean its actually possible to not believe?" I was really young, but you get the picture. I really didn't get how someone couldn't believe.

 

Since then, I've seen and done so many things, learned and lived many years. Now, like trying to go back to when I was 3 years old, into that frame of mind, I just can't do it. Yeah, we all can pretend. But really have the mind of a 3 year old? Unless your mind is actually like that, then no. At least mine can't.

 

Even if I were to take out everything I know about science (sheesh, I didn't even sadly believe in evolution until 3 years after I deconverted, and almost 4 or 5 until I could accept the big bang as real), what I know about history wouldn't let me believe. If I were to take that out of the equation, what I know about modern day cultures would prevent me from believing. Take that out of the equation, and still, you'd have the Bible preventing me from believing, just because how rediculous it is. It isn't even a matter anymore about how much the Bible contradicts itself or anything else. I just don't have the mindset that would allow for such a belief anymore.

 

I don't have a mindset that accepts absolute authorities, belief without evidence, etc...

 

In a nutshell, after you've fully left that mindset, you just can't go back.

 

Sure, I do remember the days when I was terrified of hell and believed really really strongly. But I can't return to being afraid of them anymore than my fear everynight that there were monsters in my closet (which I also remember). I just can't believe in such things anymore.

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God would have to get his lazy ass off his cloud and personally ask me to return.

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It seems that it would take either brain damage or incredibly convincing evidence.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

It seems that it would take either brain damage or incredibly convincing evidence.

This would. But I don't think such convincing evidence exists. As for brain damage, it could make anyone believe again if it happened just right.

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Now that I've allowed myself to look at the facts, no, I could never go back. It's impossible now for me to accept faith as fact.

 

I never even really understood the real meaning behind 'faith'. I always thought about it as being faith-FUL toward god. Now that I understand faith means lack of evidence and there is absolutely zero evidence for any god let alone the god of the bible, I will never believe again without evidence. Now if the god of the bible were proven to exist, I'd probably become a satanist. There's no fucking way I'm worshiping that ass fucking shit dick monster.

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It seems that it would take either brain damage or incredibly convincing evidence.

This would. But I don't think such convincing evidence exists. As for brain damage, it could make anyone believe again if it happened just right.

 

Logically, it does not seem possible to resolve the plethora of false data points supporting a fundamentalist view of the Bible. And, of course we don't think that it exists now, and the probability is microscopic, but it's possible that something could surface about some miraculous Jesus and a creator god or powerful Israel god. Who knows? Maybe it's an ancient alien? :P

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Logically, it does not seem possible to resolve the plethora of false data points supporting a fundamentalist view of the Bible. And, of course we don't think that it exists now, and the probability is microscopic, but it's possible that something could surface about some miraculous Jesus and a creator god or powerful Israel god. Who knows? Maybe it's an ancient alien? tongue.png

Nah, we all know that Zeus is God. we have proof Troy exists after most thought it never exists. So you never know :P

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I could never go back and listen to the account of Genesis again because I do not believe that god made Adam out of dust; I do not believe that woman was made from man's ribs and I don't believe that Eve ate a bad apple that caused the whole world to suffer and I also don't believe that anyone has EVER heard a talking serpent. Therefore..... Because I do not believe this 'story', I probably was NOT born in sin and therefore...... Do NOT need a savior........so why waste my time?

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I have fleeting moments of doubt when people talk about how the bible describes the water cycle centuries before scientists discovered it, how biblical prophecies have been fulfilled.

 

Then I go back and read the bible--all the sanctioned genocide, the holy war on women, slavery among the "sacred" Israelites, and how God did nothing to stop this and frequently encouraged it.

 

So no, I couldn't sacrifice myself to that hellhole again. Ever.

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I have fleeting moments of doubt when people talk about how the bible describes the water cycle centuries before scientists discovered it, how biblical prophecies have been fulfilled.

Actually, scientists discovered the water cycle about 3,000 years before they say the world began, it lead to the neolithic revolution. You have to have knowledge of the watercycle before you can start planting crops. Otherwise, how do you know its going to rain at all?

 

As for the watercycle itself, the amorites deified it as Itermer, literally the returning rains. Nothing special.

 

Then I go back and read the bible--all the sanctioned genocide, the holy war on women,slavery among the "sacred" Israelites, and how God did nothing to stop this and frequently encouraged it.

 

So no, I couldn't sacrifice myself to that hellhole again. Ever.

I hear you.

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Even if Abraham's god was real, no. I already have a better deal when it comes to deities, and I don't need that xenophobic goatfucker in my life.

 

It would be like taking back an evil ex. Fuck that noise.

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I don't see myself ever going back, no. The same way I'd never get back together with my Evil Ex (ha! LH, we both thought the same thing at the same time! Just noticed just now you'd said exactly the same thing). I know too much; I've seen too much; I've suffered too much. But even besides knowing the cruelty of Christianity, I know there's no possible way that Yahweh could be proven at this point; there's too much *disproving* him.

 

But let's say some proof did emerge that it's all true. At that point I'm left with a god who is a monster, totally unworthy of my worship. I'd join the rebellion immediately.

 

Lilith, the stuff people say God invented or described for the first time is a sheer fantasy. As BD's eloquently pointed out, nothing the Bible describes is stuff we didn't already know for thousands of years. Don't take Christianity's word for anything--go research it for yourself, and watch the house of cards fall. Like that Exodus "wandering in the desert" myth earlier, right?

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I have seen some people leave xianity and come back, but my feeling on why that happens is that they didn't leave because they doubted the faith, or rejected it's beliefs, they left for purely emotional reasons. They got tired of the hypocrisy, etc, and now they have somehow overcame that, and want to go back. Some of that I think can be family/societal pressure, some of them may even be ex-c's still, but have decided to go back into the closet about their doubts/disbelief, they were worried that they would lose too much if they continued to separate themselves from xianity.

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Nope, Christianity cannot be true. It's not just because of a lack of evidence but because it's just a clusterfuck of scientifically false statements and contradictions.

 

 

Ask your brother if he accepts the possibility that Christianity is wrong. Christians who think we're narrowminded for thinking that Christianity could never be true are ironically narrow minded, as they don't account for the possiblity of their religion being false.

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The thing that poisons a lot of people's ability to believe is that they've changed their criteria for knowing things, their epistemology. If you cross the threshold from believing things because of "faith", (ie., choosing to believe regardless of evidence), to only believing things because of real evidence and reasonableness, it's hard to go back. The people that seem to go back probably haven't made that leap. It becomes so clear how much more reliable evidence and reason are for learning things accurately, I can't imagine why anyone would willingly give that up. Sheldon mentions emotional and social factors, and I'm sure there are some that wander back because they miss those things, but I personally never trusted those things even when I was a believer.

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Can you go back to not knowing 1+1=2? It seems to be the same thing. If believing made it true, well, I could come up with a better life than heaven, for after death. Heaven always sounded boring to me. Who wants to listen to a bunch of zombies singing day and night for eternity to a god that is so pitiful and egotistical he wants to be praised all the time? Good grief, at least give us some deceased, outstanding musicians. And, it isn't fair. Jesus had a really, really bad day. You get eternity burning over and over and over if you don't believe. You, for your thoughts, get the same punishment as the most evil, brutal dictator, ever. Jesus had a really awful DAY, but not eternity. If hell existed, a lot should be converted there. Isn't it childish to threaten such dispicable stuff? Why was I always shut up when I asked such questions?

 

I could never go back. If someone put a gun to my head and said "convert or else" I would convert. But I kind of feel like that was why I was one of them to begin with. I was forced starting as a child, by parents who did not know better. I have a feeling I am one of millions who had the same situation. No one knows how many wake up, but most will do what a man leading the church tells them to do.

 

I know better.

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No. Is it possible to go back? Yes. But I tried it twice and it didn't work and that is enough. I can never going back to that type of thinking. No way.

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Count me as another one who couldn't go back to believing Christianity. Of course, when I was a Christian I didn't think I'd ever stop believing, so one could argue that anything's possible. However, there is a big difference between what I know now and what I thought I "knew" then. Having gone through the laborious work of studying the Bible and finding numerous flaws of different varieties, and having become better at critical thinking, my current position is much more grounded than the position I had when I merely swallowed the lies that religion fed me.

 

So, barring some brain injury, I am confident that I will never believe the myth again.

 

I have fleeting moments of doubt when people talk about how the bible describes the water cycle centuries before scientists discovered it, how biblical prophecies have been fulfilled.

Actually, scientists discovered the water cycle about 3,000 years before they say the world began, it lead to the neolithic revolution. You have to have knowledge of the watercycle before you can start planting crops. Otherwise, how do you know its going to rain at all?

 

As for the watercycle itself, the amorites deified it as Itermer, literally the returning rains. Nothing special.

 

And regarding the allegedly fulfilled prophecies, many of them were clearly manufactured by NT authors by taking OT texts completely out of context. In other words, they were fabricated on the basis of texts that clearly did not mean what the NT authors claimed they meant. In fact, it was a thorough study of this very subject that clinched the matter for me and solidified my disbelief. I can never again believe in the made-up prophetic fulfillments, because they so clearly are not the iron-clad evidence for Christianity that they're made out to be, but rather turn out to be evidence against Christianity.

 

In addition, there were prophecies that clearly failed.

 

Nope, I can't go back to something as clearly false as Christianity.

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When I left Christianity, it was on the basis of seeing that its promises were false. At that point, early on, I might have gone back had someone had some really stunning proof that the promises were true. It wasn't anything more rational than that. Since leaving, though, I've learned so much more about the Bible's fallacies and failures and about how utterly impossible the religion is. I've also learned a lot about logic and reason, and I've learned how to objectively judge claims and ascertain just what reality is (because Christianity has a way of warping, denying, and dismissing the very fabric of reality).

 

I've often thought about what would have to happen in order for me to at least declare that Christianity is real--not to reconvert, because I do view Yahweh/Jesus as fundamentally evil at this point--but to at least say that yes, it's real. After we've had this much study and this much research, I just don't see a way for Christianity to be proven true when so much of it's been shown to be false. Basically we'd have to find archaeological proof of the OT's myths, contemporary sources of both the OT and NT that BOTH show support for its historical claims AND invalidate the wealth of sources that either don't mention those events at all or give timelines that categorically exclude those events, and oh yes we'd also have to have some sort of proof that Jesus existed. We'd also have to have plenty of evidence that shows that the Bible's promises are kept--proven healings of amputees and blind/lame people, for example--and proof that being Christian does make someone a better person, such as seeing that Christians are profoundly less prone to domestic violence, rape, abuse, lying, you name it.

 

But when we make predictions about what sort of world we'd have to see if God *didn't* exist, we see a world exactly like it is today and a body of "believers" who act exactly like we encounter on a daily basis. If we go at this world with the attitude that OF COURSE Yahweh exists, then things get really chewy and complicated fast. So I just don't see myself ever buying into it again. I know too much.

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