Rek99 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So I professed my non-belief to my very fundemental wife last month, and thing have been going well. She's been a bit more heavy-handed with the kids (2 and 4) and trying to cram the god shit down their throats, and I've just let it slide for the most part. She's been buying Veggie Tales videos for the kids to watch and it doesn't bother me too much. My son still wants to watch Batman or Spiderman way more than that garbage, so it's all good. I still go to church with them, still don't care when she reads the bible to them or prays with them, still don't care what my wife reads on her own, and still let my son go to his Christian pre-school. But last night I happened to check my email account and saw a purchase confirmation on amazon for: D Is for Dinosaur At first I thought "Cool, they'll love a dinosaur book", but upon further inspection I found that it's a fundemental Christian's dinosaur "educational book". Here are some nice previews: Look up Job 38:4. Here God asked Job the question, “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?” In other words, teach the children that God was really asking Job, “Were you there?”Share with them that not only does God know everything, but He has always been there. The only way we can know what happened to the dinosaurs, for instance, is to talk to someone who knows everything, who’s always been there. Tell them that only God knows everything and has always been there, and that we should go to His Word to understand this world, and even to look for clues regarding dinosaurs. I promptly cancelled the book order and thankfully they hadn't shipped it yet. When I asked her about it she acted innocently, as if she was just ordering a dinosaur book. She's not into confrontations so it's hard to have a conversation with her, even a non-screaming non-blaming one. She knew exactly what kind of trash was in there, so she wasn't accidentally ordering some creationist stuff. So I guess what I'm asking is, am I off base here by canceling it? I haven't been talking to the kids about evolution, or saying that god isn't real. I would really prefer just a neutral environment for them to grow up in, but that's hard for her to accept. Should I take another step back and just let her do her thing completely? It's just so hard for me to accept her teaching my kids this unproven fundie garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 It's just so hard for me to accept her teaching my kids this unproven fundie garbage. There's your answer For your marriage to survive there is either compromise or there isn't and then it depends on which one of you concedes. Your call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 30, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2012 You must keep children from being deliberately misinformed. Their educational future is at stake, and that should trump superstitious beliefs and hurt feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Tough issue for your marriage. Is there a way you can still allow some Christian teaching upon the children without going full creationist? Children are naturally drawn to dinosaurs and that's why so much fundamentalist propaganda involves them. Guys like Hovind and Ham explicitly use dinosaurs to draw children in to their way of thinking. Dinosaurs will be an issue again. At some point in the future a dinosaur book or toy will come up and you and your wife will have to decide on what to tell them. If anything props for preventing a purchase from Answers in Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Totally agree with Florduh! After decades of indoctrination I now question almost everything I was ever taught. I feel like an idiot for not knowing anything about evolution, but I also wonder how misinformed I am about other things as well. It has shaken my confidence in my own abilities and knowledge. I'd say if it compromises their education (and may make them look stupid in front of non-fundies) and YOU know better, it's your responsibility to step in as their other parent. Or, at the very least, purchase the D is for Dinosaur, E is for Evolution kids book. ps. I'm not married nor do I have children, so I hope I don't come across as too much of a know-it-all who doesn't understand the situation. I don't! I'm advocating on behalf of your kids but I really hope that it goes okay for you and your wife and children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I feel for you. I'm in a similar situation myself. I have opted for a strategy of undermining. My kids have not been in a church in over 10 weeks. From time to time I ask my eldest if he missess church. He says "No" and I respond with "Me neither". It's routine. My wife has him pray. But like the tooth fairy and Santa Clause he will figure it out. All I have to do is give him an increduous look when we talk about it. I convey with body language that the secret is that is isn't true. All of this is done subtly so that I have plausible deniability . . . as long as my wife doesn't come here and figure how my screen name. I'm going to teach him that it's polite to respect other people's religious kookery no matter how silly it is as long as they don't hurt anybody else. With any luck my youngest will never be religious at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Education of the future generation is too important. No fucking way I'd let an Answers in Genesis book around my children. You were right to cancel the order. I would have fucking LOST IT, so you're ahead of me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 this sounds like my house. come out as atheist and all of a sudden joyce meyer moves in. Understandably if she wants to raise a "good christian family"" she needs to cranks it up a notch otherwisde they will be <GASP> SECULAR! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ugh. You need to toss out the Veggie Tales, too. That'll rot a growing young brain right quick! It sounds to me like your wife is deliberately doing this to push your buttons -- so put a stop to it! She's poisoning their minds at a critical age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Hmm. Maybe education about evolution would be a good idea and also explain that some people belief different but keep the emphasis on what has proper scientific evidence for it and what doesn't. If you get in trouble it'll be unfair since you were telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I wouldn't be too opposed to allowing the creationist trash if you also could purchase a book about evolution that also had cute pictures. On the other hand, good on you for cancelling the order. These creationists lie worst than anything I have seen. They will use any tactics to persuade people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I wouldn't be too opposed to allowing the creationist trash if you also could purchase a book about evolution that also had cute pictures. Yeah I woudln't be too afraid of religious influence as long as real science isn't excluded. Religion cannot compete. When we were driving through some mountains I showed my son the rock formations. I explained how the mountain use to be the inside of a volcano millions of years ago. I showed him the layers of strata and explaned how they formed slowly over millions of years and that the layers underneith are older. Then we drove by an area where the strata was diagnal and I explaned how we could tell that the rock had moved and changed to form a mountain. He could see that it use to be flat and is now sloped. He could see all this with his own eyes. I doubt the Bible stories about things he can never see stand a chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 So I guess what I'm asking is, am I off base here by canceling it? No. For the simple reason that if you are going to give a scientific book to the kids, it has to be fairly accurate and open to science. If it's a religious book, then it should be that and not dabble with pseudo science. Get books for the kids, just get the ones that at least attempt to be correct in each field respectively. I haven't been talking to the kids about evolution, or saying that god isn't real. I would really prefer just a neutral environment for them to grow up in, but that's hard for her to accept. Should I take another step back and just let her do her thing completely? It's just so hard for me to accept her teaching my kids this unproven fundie garbage. Make a compromise. If both of you can present and teach your individual views to the kids, then the kids can make up their mind on their own. A neutral environment is not where you make her religious views taboo and block the kids from learning about it. A neutral environment is where all voices are heard, not when one side dominates, whichever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rek99 Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 I ended up talking with her about it two nights ago. She really didn't think that I would be upset. Apparently she didn't even look at what the book said on the inside. I was showing her the pages and she was actually a bit embarrassed at the stuff..... but in the same breath she tried to explain how the ark could have worked. "Well I think that Noah did take dinosaurs on the ark, he just didn't take full size ones, and they all died after the flood because they couldn't withstand the new environment" Yeah, we've got a long road ahead of us. She did agree to talk to me about any future childrens books before purchasing them, which I appreciate. I'm not going out buying "E is for Evolution" and she is thankful for that. Thanks for all the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 "Well I think that Noah did take dinosaurs on the ark, he just didn't take full size ones, and they all died after the flood because they couldn't withstand the new environment" Where does it say any of these things in the Bible? She is twisting herself inside out to try and make this true at this stage. You might like to introduce the idea of Occam's Razor to her ie choosing the theory for which you have more evidence and less assumptions. And I reckon the kids get either no books or both sets of books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddick Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 "Well I think that Noah did take dinosaurs on the ark, he just didn't take full size ones, and they all died after the flood because they couldn't withstand the new environment" Facepalm trying to cram the god shit down their throats Sorry man, but this line actually scares me, i know you are trying to keep the peace in your family, but why do us non believers have to take a back seat to fundie partners. I know your kids are young, but, if they want to watch Vegie tales, let them, if they don't, don't force it on them, same with reading the Bible. And now she's trying to play dumb by saying she didn't know what was in the books she ordered. Sorry i don't mean to intrude into your family life. I like this quote from the review "The only way we can know what happened to the dinosaurs, for instance, is to talk to someone who knows everything, who’s always been there. Tell them that only God knows everything and has always been there" Mmmmmm, there's just so many things wrong with this sentence, one facepalm isn't enough. Scottie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I like this quote from the review "The only way we can know what happened to the dinosaurs, for instance, is to talk to someone who knows everything, who’s always been there. Tell them that only God knows everything and has always been there" Mmmmmm, there's just so many things wrong with this sentence, one facepalm isn't enough. Right Since there is no one around that experienced the Civil War then I guess it didn't really happen and since their god didn't write a book about it all the existing books must be filled with lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I like this quote from the review "The only way we can know what happened to the dinosaurs, for instance, is to talk to someone who knows everything, who’s always been there. Tell them that only God knows everything and has always been there" Mmmmmm, there's just so many things wrong with this sentence, one facepalm isn't enough. Right Since there is no one around that experienced the Civil War then I guess it didn't really happen and since their god didn't write a book about it all the existing books must be filled with lies. Yeah the whole Ken Hamm "were you there?" thing is so annoyingly stupid that anyone would take it seriously. I guess that means we also need to release from prison any criminal who was convicted without eye witness testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Good points. The "were you there?" argument can be used against Christianity too. The believers weren't there when all the things supposedly happend. The only "evidence" they have is the book and their emotions. Evolution is inferred from artifacts, like skulls, and genetic markers in different species. In other words, our "book" is actual physical things we can look at right now and reason from, and the most reasonable explanation is evolution. Their book was written by a bunch of people a long time ago. There's a big difference in quality of evidence here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Try to compromise. Remember what the Xians say about "mutual submission". Don't you just love how they hint that children know more about science and history than teachers do. So much for Xian humility. That "were you there" bosh would never stand up in a classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendyLine Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 More like D is for Dumbass! You see what I did there? *cough* but seriously, that "Were you there?" sounds like something that was invented by a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 It was invented by a grown ass man with the mental faculties of a 4 year old. Fucking idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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