Can A Christian Understand Atheism?

[roadrunner]

I got ready to list this in the rants but I am more interested in hearing any success stories on the topic. i put another religious friend in the know and of course he attributes this to other influences like reading secular material, seeking the approval of a non-godly father (who is an awesome dad), never having seen a Man of God running his household, talking to the wrong people, etc. They are giving all of these psychological reasons that Ive lost faith. The fact that people attribute this to anything other than a self-realization show that regardless of what it seems they still do not understand.

 

To make matters worse, they go and say "Person X" was in that same position. And Person X says has a testimony that involves "Trying several religions" and "being agnostic". This is nothing like my story. Trying several religions indicates an emotional struggle to me. A quest to find comfort and bouncing religions until you find it. This is not agnosticism. To be honest, I dont know what that is since I've never been that way or understood why people could bounce from "truth" to "truth".

 

Call me stupid but if only one monotheistic religion is right (since monotheistic religions are mutually exclusive of one another) certainly a person CAN'T make more than one of them be true if the religion it self says every other religion is untrue. SO if you are willing to bounce from one to the other then you are either rejecting truth or you have been persuaded of one probability vs. another. If that's what you do that's fine by me but that is definitely NOT my stance now and it never was.

 

This is a person who THINKS they have a testimony that relates. Another failed attempt by the human mind to make a puzzle piece fit where it's not intended to fit. I thought I letter would be helpful but that hasnt proven true. Its like it rolled off. I may have to pull out my trump card. "Show me why it is true". the hope is that this will spark a quest where they can then understand why the evidence points to tradition religion as false. Once you see it for what it truly is (an ignorant species trying to make sense of it place in the world) then all religions start to make sense and you can see them for what they truly are.

 

Has anyone used this method?

[freeasabird]

Yeah I am just way too analytical to let emotion control the actions of how I would choose a religion. My thought process of leaving religion could basically be boiled down to the follow steps and premises.

 

1. There are many religions.

2. Many of them are in opposition to each other.

3. Therefore, they cannot all be true (but they can all be false).

4. Since at least some must be false, we must use evidence over faith to guide our determinations of fact vs. fiction.

5. Since Christianity makes emperical claims which have been falsified, Christianity is not true and should be discarded.

[roadrunner]

Yeah I am just way too analytical to let emotion control the actions of how I would choose a religion. My thought process of leaving religion could basically be boiled down to the follow steps and premises.

 

1. There are many religions.

2. Many of them are in opposition to each other.

3. Therefore, they cannot all be true (but they can all be false).

4. Since at least some must be false, we must use evidence over faith to guide our determinations of fact vs. fiction.

5. Since Christianity makes emperical claims which have been falsified, Christianity is not true and should be discarded.

 

And it helps not to be afraid of truth. This helped me move on quickly. I still have to navigate the family part of it but I have no problem ditching something that is a waste of time even though it was a life long belief. If its not true its not true. At some point you've got to grow up.

[Chikirin]

I couldn't understand atheism until my faith had fully died.

[mymistake]

The Christianity I know has a steady diet of misinformation regarding atheism. Preachers are constantly working to shape the world view of their sheep. In that world view the believers are right and the atheists are something else. Preachers have to come up with many reasons for that something else and they have to be compatible with that well shaped Christian world view.

[Rek99]

The Christianity I know has a steady diet of misinformation regarding atheism. Preachers are constantly working to shape the world view of their sheep. In that world view the believers are right and the atheists are something else. Preachers have to come up with many reasons for that something else and they have to be compatible with that well shaped Christian world view.

 

Agreed. Many Christians and Christian leaders try and make atheism out to be a religion on the basis that both Christianity and atheism require "faith".

[3DollarBill]

For most...absolutely not. They cannot understand ANY worldview that doesn't include Jeebus.

[jblueep]

Ask your friend if he believes in Mormonism or Scientology. When he says "no", ask him why he doesn't believe in those religions. If he says anything more intelligent than some version of "because they are not xianity", then show him how to apply those same tests and objections to xianity. He will most likely resort to "well, I just believe". At that point, you can say "that's cool...I need more than that."

[pandora]

I don't doubt that a thoughtful atheist could possibly be converted due to some emotional experience or seeking. Can a Christian who has never been an atheist or agnostic understand it? HELL NO! Casual atheists and agnostics who are against religion for vague, emotional reasons and then convert to Christianity cannot understand the intellectual position that most of take regarding gods and woo.

[Kateastrophy]

Yeah I am just way too analytical to let emotion control the actions of how I would choose a religion. My thought process of leaving religion could basically be boiled down to the follow steps and premises.

 

1. There are many religions.

2. Many of them are in opposition to each other.

3. Therefore, they cannot all be true (but they can all be false).

4. Since at least some must be false, we must use evidence over faith to guide our determinations of fact vs. fiction.

5. Since Christianity makes emperical claims which have been falsified, Christianity is not true and should be discarded.

 

Get out of my brain!!!! Seriously though, LOVE this!

[stryper]

1) chrisitian's can't understand each others christianity.

2) they don't want to understand anything that makes them uncomfortable.

 

3) the show me state approach won't work. If it did the show me state would bleed blue. As it is right now it just bleeds.

[inorbit]

Applying the cultural anthropology and cross-cultural communication portion of my ministry training to an honest understanding of the atheist's position from their own perspective is exactly what led me away from Christianity and Christian ministry.

[roadrunner]

Applying the cultural anthropology and cross-cultural communication portion of my ministry training to an honest understanding of the atheist's position from their own perspective is exactly what led me away from Christianity and Christian ministry.

 

me too and it was only so i could strengthen my own argument. LOL. its alot like the testimony of 3vid3nce on youtube and matt dilahunty (butchered spelling but too lazy to check). the longer i stay out of it the more absurd xianity seems.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[Guest wester]

I recommend the works of Soren Kierkegaard.

 

He was nominally a christian, steeped in pre-existential philosophy which was populated by athiests like Nietzche and Feuerbacheli.

 

Kierkegaard realized the profound irrationality and absurdity of christianity but chose to "believe" it anyway, or at least go through with the trappings and social rituals.

[Suzy]

I could understand atheism even when I was a Xtian. I did not assume atheists are just in denial who believe deep down, just rebelling or any other self-assuring BS like that. I knew that atheists just really do not believe there is a God. As simple as that. Maybe that's because, unlike the US, where I live is a more secular society, where being a believing Christian isn't necessarily the default.

[freeasabird]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but going up to the start of my deconversion there was a very vocal atheist on the Runner's World Online forum. I had known an atheist in college but he was pretty quiet about his nonbelief so this was the first exposure to someone who was very vocal about it. I was very curious of him at the time, wondering how and why someone would be so vocal about not believing in god. I think the first response to this exposure will tell you a lot about whether a person would deconvert. If their first reaction is repulsion or putting the blinders on, that's probably good evidence their cognitive dossonance is too high. Obviously mine wasn't since I wanted to understand his position and so I followed his topics intensely.

 

Surprisingly, this is the first time I ever considering the timing of everything and what role he may have played in my deconversion, which I now guess was not insignificant.

[atkegar]

I will say for me, it was hard to understand atheism, for even in my most liberal Christian days, I could not fathom the universe without a creator. I could understand deism though. It does take a paradigm shift to really consider atheism.

[ConureDelSol]

As a Christian, I didn't understand atheism at all. I was one of those "Look at how awesome the universe is, God must've made it" kind of people. I was disgusted by atheists ESPECIALLY when they advertised their atheism or did anything antagonistic to my beliefs. I've mentioned this before, but it's worth mentioning again. I remember before deconverting, I was on my way to work (when I worked for the church) with my dad and we saw a car in front of us COVERED in atheist bumper stickers and even an atheist license plate. I remember being totally appalled that anyone would be PROUD of being an atheist. Not believing in God was bad, so atheists were megabad. They might as well have had bumper stickers proclaiming their love for child porn and how much they love to rape kids. That is actually how an atheism sticker on a car equated in my mind.

 

I would actually say that the "bouncing around" other religions thing is somewhat true of me. I didn't actually join any particular religion, rather, I tried to fuse it with Christianity to make it still be "ok". I explored Scientology, Islam, Raelism, and eventually settled on becoming Baha'i for a few months. Then I realized how I was trying to make religion fit into my own box, realized how insane I was being and how the Baha'i faith was completely and utterly full of (maybe even more than Christianity) contradictions.

 

Then I was deist, then I was atheist.

 

I don't think Christians will ever understand atheism until they go down that road themselves. Then, "former atheists" may have really been like us, but something happened to them to make them comprehend the world differently than us. You know how when you experience a sensation in the past and years later, you don't remember what it felt like? I wonder if ex-atheists are sort of like that. They think they remember what it was like to be an atheist, but after having believed something else for so long, they don't really remember the impact that it had upon them.

 

Gah, I don't know. I need to stop typing at night before I go to bed.

[Mling]

I think I understood atheism fairly well when I was Christian, though I certainly didn't fully grasp all the implications of it (which I think is impossible if somebody has even the slightest hint of faith in them.) At the very least, I didn't have ridiculous beliefs about why people were atheist, and understood that they simply didn't believe in God.

[roadrunner]

as a christian I though atheists were shallow for leaving the faith for such stupid reasons. All of these questions went in one ear and out the other.

 

"Why is there suffering?" God brings you closer in trouble.

"So many different religions. Explain?" Mine is right. Screw the rest of the world.

"Jesus didnt rise on the third day?" What are you stupid. The bible says he did. Besides, someone somewhere has done all the work to find evidence and if it wasnt true then why is there still christianity.

"God doesn't answer prayers" I was late on my rent and my Direct Deposit landed a day early when i prayed.

 

 

this was always followed up with "the REAL reason they leave is they want to remain in sin. People dont come to the light because they love the dark."

 

My last sunday school class that i went to underscores the naive ignorant nature of xianity. we all laid our doubts on the table. One of the people in the class said "I just believe whatever the pastor says. I just take his word for it". I was livid. my comment was "in a world plagued by disease, natural disasters, a multitude of religions and denominations, this is the same confusion that would be expected if there were no supreme deity"

 

I respect much more the xian that says, I admit the evidence is shallow and points to there being no god, but I have faith. You are at least being honest and willing to go down with the ship. As brainless as that is I prefer that answer to "there is all this evidence of Jesus, etc".

 

EDIT to add: "this many people CANT BE WRONG". but that many CAN be wrong about Islam.

[Ro-bear]

Atheism is a threat to religion, so religious people have to find ways to ridicule it or dismiss it or explain it out of existence.

 

"I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Where did all this come from? Nothing?"

 

"Atheists ignore all the evidence; look at all the prophecies in the Bible that were fulfilled. Archaeology proves the Bible is true."

 

"I suppose it is just a coincidence that bananas are shaped perfectly for the human hand. How come no crocoducks have "evolved?"

 

"Atheists just want to sin, so they pretend there is no God."

 

"There is no such thing as an atheist." "There are no atheists in foxholes."

 

I don't bother with these sorts of objections to atheism anymore. My time is worth more than that.

[par4dcourse]

Childhood indoctrination is critical. I remember as a kid hating the name "Madalyn Murray O'Hare- atheist" simply because my parents used such disgusted terms describing her- devil worshipper, demon, possessed, or the uber-scary "of the devil."

Most folks limited understanding of non-belief comes from their parents, and attitudes that are drilled in early are tough to shed.

My answer now to most any "spreader of the Truth^TM is: prove it.

[Ouroboros]

I'm not sure anyone can fully understand anyone else at all, regardless of views.

[roadrunner]

I had a long semi emotional talk with my college roommate (who watched me "grow" spiritually and played a big part in my Xian life) about how im not in the fold any more. I told him the most frustrating thing is not being understood and having everyone pinpoint different things that may have contributed and their thoughts on the matter. But no one seems to take the time and explore the likelihood that I just might be spot on with this move. The arrogance it must take to not even admit that you just might be wrong baffles me. I've never been that way so I don't get it. I've always been willing to admit I was wrong and accept responsibility for it. Maybe i sowed a seed.

[Gamecock1973]

Yep, i came out as an atheist to all my family and hometown Christian friends this summer. Their response was either one of two streams of thought:

 

1. Deep down I still believed in god, but really wanted to indulge in a sinful life; i.e. rebellion against god.

 

2. I must have has some emotional trauma or experience and am angry at god; i.e still believe in god but in denial.

 

They could not fathom that I simply didn't believe in the X'tian god anymore...and surely not through an academic process or via reason! I'm convinced they CANNOT understand.