silentknight Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Thanks for posting this Knowing a bit about history I would agree with Neil... all one has to do is look at two periods, The height of Greek civilization and the Renaissance (which was actually kick started by Greek literature). I'm not sure how to fit the Mayans in there—we probably don't know enough about them to make a proper assessment. i suggest that in this technological era science education MUST play a bigger part. Having ignorant masses is just asking for craziness. The vast majority of humanity does not even understand the basics of science... and from what I have seen are responding to it the way a stone age tribal peoples would respond to hearing a radio for the first time—with fear and superstition... and fear breeds anger. (they feel threatened) I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well. I'm starting to wonder... if it's even a matter of education, or a split in human evolution along the lines of intelligence/adaptibility. (hmmm...) Unfortunately... the lower the IQ the more they breed (there's verification for that somewhere) sorry, going off topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I wonder how closely the members of these groups overlap today: fundies; people who believe Obama is a Muslim/born outside the US; people who believe that Saddam Hussein had WMDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think something has been missed here... the timeline of the end of the age of enlightenment of the Arab world coincides with not just the proposition that math is of the debil... but also the crusades. Is it not reasonable to think that might also have had a big part in it... considering the christians come through pillaging and burning and all that? I would think that would provoke a form of protectionism and reaction. It's still 'faith' suppressing knowledge though, in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think something has been missed here... the timeline of the end of the age of enlightenment of the Arab world coincides with not just the proposition that math is of the debil... but also the crusades. Is it not reasonable to think that might also have had a big part in it... considering the christians come through pillaging and burning and all that? I would think that would provoke a form of protectionism and reaction. It's still 'faith' suppressing knowledge though, in the long run. I've heard that the crusades were a reaction to the hurdles to Christian pilgrims set up when a more fundamentalist group took over the government in Egypt. I.e. was the end of enlightenment in the Arab world already underway when the Crusades began? But I would agree that the conflict would seem to stimulate a protective, let's-circle-the-wagons mentality among Muslims, at least those near the areas where the Crusaders invaded. The Arabs were hard hit by the Turks and later by the Mongols - wonder what role those groups played (even though the Turks were Muslim by then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I would say that the struggles between the west and east were already starting before end of enlightenment was underway. The defeat of the Arabs by the Franks in 732 shows us that the battle has been going on for a very long time. The precursors to the the crusades are dated about 1065 - 1085 or thereabout. I don't think this caused the end of the Golden Age for the Arabs, but surely had a great effect. It also coincides with the Investiture Controversy, where the Catholic Church solidifies it's power base. The desire for christendom to reclaim or retain both Constantinople and Jerusalem (or at least access to Jerusalem/Palestine) was pretty strong and definitely used by the Catholic Church to promote/support it's own agenda. I don't know enough about the Arabs struggles with the Turks or the Mongols to comment.. except wasn't everyone in fear of the Mongols? (largest empire ever, I believe) If it wasn't for those mountains we could all be drinking mare's milk for breakfast. History is very interesting... and shows us that yes, religion does play a part in human progress or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 sheesh... I get distracted and lose my train of thought. It's probably demonstrable that this (progress being negatively affected by religion) is true of christianity and islam, but is it also true of other religious beliefs? Is it true of judaism? (being the root of the other two you would think so, but i wonder since many scientists are also jews) hinduism? buddhism? shinto? i don't know. Are there precedents for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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