LivingLife Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 In light of some recent posts, suggest those wavering look at this and see just exactly how the mind can be fooled as far as those fuzzy feel good moments happen you experienced in church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I like Brown, but I don't buy this performance. No way an atheist just suddenly believes in god because Brown touches him. This is a put on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 If he laid his hands on me, I would probably feel woosy too. He is a rather attractive man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted September 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2012 That series was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 On a more serious note; long after my deconversion and I was in nursing school, we had a speaker come in to speak about Therapeutic Touch. Therapeutic Touch is a form of woo that many academic nurses like to promote. It is basically just waving your hands over a person to reduce anxiety, supposedly induce healing, and open up a person emotionally. It is similar to Reiki. Anyway, she offered to demonstrate. Thoroughly believing it was bullshit and that I would not be affected, I came forward after a few others had. I didn't close myself up as I wanted to give it a chance, knowing whatever I would experience was a product of my own mind. I got a similar feeling that the woman did in Brown's film. I even teared up. I felt warm and cozy. It is just merely the result of being emotionally open to connection with another human being. The same things happens when I make passionate love with my fiance when we are feeling particularly close. I don't attritbute it to a God and religions use this phenomenon to make people think God is touching them personally. It is all in how you interpret it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 On a more serious note; long after my deconversion and I was in nursing school, we had a speaker come in to speak about Therapeutic Touch. Therapeutic Touch is a form of woo that many academic nurses like to promote. It is basically just waving your hands over a person to reduce anxiety, supposedly induce healing, and open up a person emotionally. It is similar to Reiki. My wife hired a massage therapist last year who would do this to me after the session. It does make you feel good to have someone calmly and caringly wave their hands around your personal bubble space. On a lark, about 7 years ago I did a couple of sessions with an acupuncturist -- he was actually an MD and worked in a Russian clinic (which worries me about the accreditation around here, but that's another story). Anyway, the guy would kiss me on the lips before the session started and was a genuinely caring person. I don't think the acupuncture did anything and it was odd to have a man kiss me on the lips, but his demeanor and general sincerity helped reduce my stress making it worth the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Sorry, I can see where there's some truth behind this, but I think his demonstration is bullshit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Well I have seen the exact same techniques used in the church where I was the P&W leader. All the laying on of hands and crap - suggestion and seeing folk buy into that, pretty much the same. The god helmet experiment kinda bears this out managing to externally stimulate the brain that brings those feelings of euphoria. This is the same techniques used by hypnotists. The first time I saw this vid it was like dejavu and probably one of the things that helped me to let go of the real experiences I thought I had experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 In church you have willing participants looking for an excuse to put on the god helmet. If you told me Brown gave these guys goosebumps, I'd believe it. If you tell me they go from atheism to god belief, I call bullshit. If this were possible, people like Brown would be getting people to rob banks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted September 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2012 They were probably Strobel/McDowell/Lewis atheists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pox Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I believe the demonstration. Of course, it's edited to make a story, but all of Brown's stuff relies on suggestion, NLP, and hypnosis. I'm sure it doesn't always work, and there are even incidents on other episodes of the show where he failed. A bunch of people left halfway through, and HE said it was because they were uncomfortable, but maybe they just thought it was a waste of time. In the second part he was left with people who were interested in what he was doing and wanted to participate. He gave them reasons and rewards for further participation. In the part where they guy fell backwards, he told him several times what to do, "Don't worry, we'll catch you," etc. Add that to the social pressure of the group watching, and he just did what was expected. Nobody jumped up and said, "I'm a Christian now!" They said things like, "I guess there could be something to it. I kinda get what my grandma was feeling." Brown then led them to associate that statement with believing in "god". Once they've said it out loud, it's hard to take back. After the last demonstration, he quizzed them all quickly, asking whether each agreed with everyone else. There's pressure to agree with a group. It's hard to say, "No, and I think you're all stupid." I had hope for the woman that remained standing at the end, who didn't fall into her chair, but even she wasn't willing to stand up to the group. Suggestion + authority + social coercion. Isn't that the exact formula that kept us all in church before we deconverted? It's not hard to believe this worked when I lived it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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