roadrunner Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I need a good laugh. Some one please explain how the concept of a trinity is not polytheism. Yes I know this is god manifesting himself in three distinct and equal entities. But key is "distinct". if they are separate, by definition they are independent of one another. They can talk to each other (let us make man) so they act as 3 seperate beings. Why dont we say "Thank You All for blessing us" or "God had their arms around me". How did this ever slip past me. Valk would love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 god works in mysterious ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I think the early believers thought it more to be different aspects or modes of one God, but then the fancy philosophical apologists came along and wanted their monotheism to stand out from other religions and didn't want there to be different "modes", so they started to argue that it wasn't, and also that it wasn't 3 different persons either. In other words, they just wanted it to be a unsolvable conundrum or paradox to create a mystery. That way you had to believe only, instead of understanding or for it to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Why dont we say "Thank You All for blessing us"... 'cause it's way, way funner to be able to say, "Heavenly father God, thank you for this day. Jesus, we ask the Holy Spirit to be with us, Father God Holy Spirit we thank you, Jesus. Father God help us, Lord. Jesus we bless you God." (Note: This is a near verbatim replica of the first 10 seconds of long prayers from the in-laws.) And so on. It's like mixing metaphors or mixing drinks. Get as fancy as you like. Repeat as needed and sprinkle generously with trinitarian personalities. THAT is why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Think of it like water. It can be a liquid, a solid and a gas, yet be water at the same time...and...and...and Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 The thing that sent me off on the road to being an ex-Christian is that modalism is heresy. It's like Oro said. You have to trust the theology without understanding it. To try to understand is a sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I need a good laugh. Some one please explain how the concept of a trinity is not polytheism. Yep, this is one of the more crazier teachings of Christianity. 3=1. There are no clear answers to this conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 The problem is with the Bible, itself. First you have this creator God. Then along comes Jesus who was the "son of God." So what does one do with Jesus? If he was the son of God, then the question is when did he come into existence? Did he first come into existence upon his birth or did he pre-exist and was merely manifested somehow in the flesh upon his birth? And then the Bible portrays Jesus as praying to the Father. Does that mean he was praying to a separate being or was he somehow praying to himself? Then to top it all off, there is this being called the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that when he leaves, the Holy Spirit will come and guide people, etc. And what is more, the Holy Spirit is different in a lot of ways from both the Father and the Son. One way that stands out is that one can blaspheme against the Son and be forgiven, but one cannot blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and be forgiven. Combine all these problems and issues with the Jewish roots of Christianity that, at least by the First Century, was squarely monotheistic so the Church founders also wanted a single God. They also wanted a single God (monotheism) to differentiate Christianity from Paganism which had multiple gods. Various church councils and much debate among the early church leaders finally led to a consensus that they believed at least addressed the problems and, they thought, at least gave them their single God. It was, of course, the doctrine of the trinity - one God but expressed in three different persons. It was all mental gymnastics caused by both the problems of the Bible and a desire for monotheism. And the only way around it was the doctrine of the trinity. Will Christians ever acknowledge that their religion actually has three separate Gods despite the fact that the Bible strongly suggests it? No way. That would be to abandon their orthodoxy. Instead, they have their "mystery" which they claim is true but for which there is no logical explanation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 When I was in the AG, I remember hearing about oneness pentecostals, and how they were heretics for not believing the trinity. Yes, the trinity is in the creeds, but it didn't seem fair to call people heretics for not seeing the trinity in the bible, especially given the many passages that say God is one. I have an easier time believing in virgin births, which actually do occur among certain species of lizrds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Will Christians ever acknowledge that their religion actually has three separate Gods despite the fact that the Bible strongly suggests it? No way. That would be to abandon their orthodoxy. Instead, they have their "mystery" which they claim is true but for which there is no logical explanation. Eloquently put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yep, this is one of the more crazier teachings of Christianity. 3=1. There are no clear answers to this conundrum. When I was a kid I bought a "10-way tool" (sorry, can't find Internet photos of what this thing looked like). It was a combination hammer, screwdriver, pliers, etc. At the time (I was 10) I remember trying to come up with an analogy for how this 10-way tool can shed some light on the complex topic of the Trinity--you know, how a 10-way tool (10=1) can help me understand the 3-way God (3=1). Even at age 10, I was trying to make the Trinity make sense. Gawd. I must be tho thtupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortCakeSlayer Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Gods having multiple faces or aspects is a pretty common thing in early religions. I think the number 3 had spiritual signifigance in pagan religions, and there are variations of this theme everywhere, from celtic goddeses like the Morrigan who had three "faces", each with it's own name, to the Greek Fates (who were sisters with different purposes) to even the three daughters of Allah being worshipped as a triple Goddess in early forms of Islam. The validity of the Christian god being a triple deity was decided in Nicea, I think. I'm not sure why they chose to validate the trinity instead of chuck it out the window, except that Constantine's goal was to unite Christianity, not necessarily make the religion a big silly hot mess. So maybe the trinity concept was a popular one due to strong pagan influences still moving through the church, and Constantine knew that it would be difficult to get Christians to accept no longer believing it. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The trinity is not a deal breaker for believers. By that I mean it is probably the least of their concerns as far as consistency goes. In practice, what I observed, no one prayed to Jeebus nor the wholly spook. Jeebus and da spook were however invoked in song. For all practicality, they are seen as separate (but equal). The common salutation in prayer is "heavenly father..." or "father god" Father = one who must be sucked up to and appeased Jeebus = bestest buddy Spook = helper and whose voice you're supposed to hear in your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 what I observed, no one prayed to Jeebus nor the wholly spook. Not my experience. They prayed to Jesus as well as to the Big Guy, but not the other one. In the church i was brought up in they basically ignored the HS. But I have also attended a bit a Pentecostal church where they made a big deal about the HS. Some crazy shit went on there. Thats the thing all these churches supposedly have the same HS but believe in a whole bunch of different stuff, which proves what nonsense it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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