deconverted Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I had a discussion with a Christian the other day, but I think he is very close to at least becoming an Agnostic, as he plainly sees very troubling things in the Bible. One thing he talked about though, and this is something I've heard from MANY Christians, is the idea of trying to figure out his purpose for his life. I have noticed that most Christians have this idea that there MUST be some sort of greater purpose in life for each one of us humans. There is a big hang up it seems on this idea. For me, even when I was a Christian, I really didn't have much of a hang up with this, I just wanted to live my life in the best possible way. Maybe it stems from the idea that if there is no God and no afterlife, then life just isn't worth living for them. I used to have this sort of thinking, although it wasn't as intense as most Christians, but now that I see life without religion, things seem so simple and good for me. I personally have plenty of "purpose" in my life, but what I would call purpose would not qualify to the Christian I think. My purposes go from small things like simply looking forward to my next vacation, to the big things, like seeing my children grow up and what becomes of them. These aren't really purpose, but rather looking forward to the next "thing" in life. Do even have a purpose for being here? I kind of think it's just random chance/chaos and that we just have to live out life. It's that simple. There doesn't need to be a greater purpose for me...does there? I am sure many of you ex-christians have thought about the idea of a purpose. What sort of ideas or thoughts do you have on this topic? What do I say to Christians when they make such grand claims of humans having a greater purpose? This guy I recently had the discussion with is very close to rejecting Christianity, and he actually rejects a lot of it already, but he seems to think there is some sort of God (creator) out there. He has had a pretty difficult life so far and I assume he is hoping that the difficulties he has faced, are worthwhile to fulfill some greater purpose. I don't buy into his thinking, but I just don't know what to say to him. I started thinking more and more about this way of thinking and thought this would be a good place to get some other thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 In my 20's my purpose was to have a relationship with Jesus. So I went to church four times a week (twice on Sunday) and set aside an hour every day to read the Bible and pray. My fundamentalist High School drilled into my head that Jesus had a plan for my life and I just had to listen and obey. So I didn't plan out my life. Anytime some random event happened I interpreted that as God either opening a door or closing a door. I basically chased doors for years until a "prophet" came up and gave a prophesy for my life. That was the big signal that I had been waiting for so I jumped on it. I chased that prophesy for three years and it nearly drove me insane. It was totally wrong for me but I didn't know what else to do. So I just chased random doors again until I eventually lost my Christianity . . . many years later. If somebody had just sat me down as a kid and told me that life is a competition, you have to make things happen yourself and you have to set your own purpose, then I'm sure things would have turned out better for me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I feel such a relief that there is no bigger external "plan"--other than the fact that it is a benefit to ourselves and the world when we help other creatures, preserve and conserve life and natural resources, and be kind to others. We are a part of something 'bigger' but it is not some cosmic plan that the creator of the universe has drummed up for little ol' you. Now that I've lost the narcissistic belief that God has some sort of plan for my life, I am free to enjoy this life and try in local ways to improve the world and the lives of others. Self efficacy + enjoyment + altruism + rational thinking = good living. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 ...Jesus had a plan for my life and I just had to listen and obey. So I didn't plan out my life. Anytime some random event happened I interpreted that as God either opening a door or closing a door. I basically chased doors for years until a "prophet" came up and gave a prophesy for my life. That was the big signal that I had been waiting for so I jumped on it. I chased that prophesy for three years and it nearly drove me insane. It was totally wrong for me but I didn't know what else to do. If somebody had just sat me down as a kid and told me that life is a competition, you have to make things happen yourself and you have to set your own purpose, then I'm sure things would have turned out better for me. Oh gawd, mm. This is a page right out of my book, too. [so-called] prophecies nearly ruined my life, too. It was years before I actually got a grip on reality and started acting rationally. Gawd. All the wasted years, wasted tears, lost opportunities. I'm glad you and I eventually came to our senses before we lost our minds and gawd knows what else! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 4, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2012 Christianity bets all its chips on some imagined afterlife, so this life isn't all that important. Religion provides an artificial purpose. Most people can come up with a better purpose on their own. Make a difference. Raise a child well. Feed the hungry. Make someone happy. Invent something. The possibilities are endless if you feel you need a purpose to be entitled to live. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I love what Neil deGrasse Tyson once said about a higher power: "Every account of a higher power that I've seen described, of all religions that I've seen, include many statements with regard to the benevolence of that power. When I look at the universe and all the ways the universe wants to kill us, I find it hard to reconcile that with statements of beneficence." The question of "purpose" is a "first world problem". Many people in the world are spending their day trying to fill their bellies and not die of starvation, and/or avoid other forms of death/suffering that lurk around each corner. Only a portion of humankind has the luxury to ponder anything other than survival on a day to day basis. Think about all those starving people in Africa. They don't ponder "purpose". And furthermore, with all due respect, what sort of "purpose" does a person who is starving fulfill? I think those of us humans who are fortunate enough to have health, full bellies, warm beds, and all of the nonessential junk and entertainment we fill our lives with, should quit the bitching and moaning about "purpose" (an idiotic concept) and enjoy our lives - no matter how mundane our day to day routines are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deconverted Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 wilyfem, I think you made a great point. When I was talking to the guy and he was trying to figure out his purpose, all I could think about were the people in Africa, enduring awful wars, starvation, and just figuring out how to stay alive each day. There is no greater purpose for them...they just want to feed themselves or their children or try to maintain some sort of basic life requirements each day. That is why the idea of purpose is frustrating to me when people in a much higher standard of life think there is something more. In this country, most of us have the luxury of at least thinking about doing something more besides the necessities of life. Maybe when I hear a Christian tell me how they could never loose their faith in God because that would mean they have no greater purpose, I can just ask them if they think a starving family in Africa even has the luxury of thinking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Our real place in life is that we were born. No purpose for our birth except to procreate and continue populating the planet. What we choose to do with out lives gives us an 'artificial' purpose to pursue our own goals. When I was a fundy, I also thought my purpose in life was to praise Woo almighty for everything I had. That purpose proved to be a false sense of security when I finally discovered the Christian purpose in life was to keep the Christian church operating and never ending its existence. 'Once saved, always enslaved,' that is the Christian purpose for god. Give the church everything you have and suffer the rest of your life so that you may come to know god's will for you, which is to suffer. Your purpose as a Christian, therefor, is to suffer and only those deemed worthy enough by god gets all the toys and marbles while living and rest of us suffer to make that person's purpose in life enjoyable. We do not need a purpose in life to be good people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I had a discussion with a Christian the other day, but I think he is very close to at least becoming an Agnostic, as he plainly sees very troubling things in the Bible. One thing he talked about though, and this is something I've heard from MANY Christians, is the idea of trying to figure out his purpose for his life. I have noticed that most Christians have this idea that there MUST be some sort of greater purpose in life for each one of us humans. There is a big hang up it seems on this idea. For me, even when I was a Christian, I really didn't have much of a hang up with this, I just wanted to live my life in the best possible way. Maybe it stems from the idea that if there is no God and no afterlife, then life just isn't worth living for them. I used to have this sort of thinking, although it wasn't as intense as most Christians, but now that I see life without religion, things seem so simple and good for me. I personally have plenty of "purpose" in my life, but what I would call purpose would not qualify to the Christian I think. My purposes go from small things like simply looking forward to my next vacation, to the big things, like seeing my children grow up and what becomes of them. These aren't really purpose, but rather looking forward to the next "thing" in life. Do even have a purpose for being here? I kind of think it's just random chance/chaos and that we just have to live out life. It's that simple. There doesn't need to be a greater purpose for me...does there? I am sure many of you ex-christians have thought about the idea of a purpose. What sort of ideas or thoughts do you have on this topic? What do I say to Christians when they make such grand claims of humans having a greater purpose? This guy I recently had the discussion with is very close to rejecting Christianity, and he actually rejects a lot of it already, but he seems to think there is some sort of God (creator) out there. He has had a pretty difficult life so far and I assume he is hoping that the difficulties he has faced, are worthwhile to fulfill some greater purpose. I don't buy into his thinking, but I just don't know what to say to him. I started thinking more and more about this way of thinking and thought this would be a good place to get some other thoughts. Living is a greater purpose. Overcoming difficulty in order to enjoy another day seems worthy to me. What is a christian's purpose? To be afraid of a silent invisible authority? To shun worldly enjoyment? To sing praises to Jebus in heaven? That's a waste of life and a big waste of eternity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I personally find more purpose without a god because I get to make my own decisions, celebrate my successes as my own, and use my mistakes as opportunities to learn. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As an old dog, lounging on the porch all day long and only getting up to eat or find a tree, I find all this business about "purpose" to be mildly amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As an old dog, lounging on the porch all day long and only getting up to eat or find a tree, I find all this business about "purpose" to be mildly amusing. Perhaps the obsession with 'purpose' is the domain of the young. And to think that Christianity capitalizes on this youthful naivity and passion, captures it and steers it to make automatons/Christbots of young people. It's a sort of hijacking, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I've always thought that purpose must be assigned by a creator or a higher power. A phone or shoe is given purpose by it's creator, man. If man didn't exist and (hypothetically) his creations did, they would lose their purpose. So if man is the highest power and has no creator to give us a purpose; then obviously we don't have one and are free to determine our own destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 That very question bothers me. not in a bad way but its annoying to hear from christians as if you have to have some life mission. If thats the case what do you do after its done. by asking that you are asking what is the purpose of a residual effect which makes no sense. It has a cause and a reason but the purpose is to just BE. if the universe explodes into existence and during the blast molecules clump together and stay that way long enough that life can form but its clear that the distant future looks grim for life (unless we can help. GO NASA and science) our job is to enjoy the ride. Life is short. As life goes on each person forms their own purpose and it changes nothing in the grand scheme (universal scale) but it feels good to have left the world a better place than you found it along the way PS Im not a spiritual person so it probably a boring answer to some people. But Im just fine enjoying my family and having a good time while I get to experience existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The talk of 'purpose' is emotional blackmail. It's a way of exploiting our natural egotism, especially when we were young. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Even as a christian I always thought my purpose was to try to be the best person I could be. To learn and grow and help others when i could... develop my talents and skills, maybe pass whatever I was able to learn on to the next generation. Isn't that enough? The thing that messed that up during the 'xian years' was this concept of perfection...(and the guilt that instills) and the idea that there was an 'outside' plan. That held me back from taking personal responsibility. Wasted time. It's really no different from those who go to fortune tellers, and base their decisions on what they hear. This entire concept keeps people from being entirely responsible for their own lives and gives them an idea that when bad things happen, or good things don't happen, it isn't really their fault. There's a PLAN. I've kept my original idea, but now it's all on me (and the fact that shit happens) I have no one to blame, but also I can actually give myself some credit too. It's the position of an adult. Christianity keeps people from growing up. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 You see, we are here, as far as I can tell, to help each other; our brothers, our sisters, our friends, our enemies. That is to help each other and not hurt each other. Stevie Ray Vaughan Pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 .. My fundamentalist High School drilled into my head that Jesus had a plan for my life and I just had to listen and obey. So I didn't plan out my life. Anytime some random event happened I interpreted that as God either opening a door or closing a door. If somebody had just sat me down as a kid and told me that life is a competition, you have to make things happen yourself and you have to set your own purpose, then I'm sure things would have turned out better for me. Same here. Even today, when things are not working out I am thinking - that's a closed door, or I am not living right (in my relationship to God), I am not sure someone raised with this persistent idea can EVER be completely free of it. Perhaps when times are good and things are going well, but when things go bad, it always returns. Also, no question about it that life would have been different if this idea were not there. If you make plans for yourself, then its sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Purpose is a manufactured need that Christianity puts into people's heads, then fulfills with *their* answer, which suspiciously enforces their religious indoctrination. It makes Christians feel speshul and wuvved, it makes them feel like someone powerful put a hand on their heads and told them what to do, and it helps them ignore Christianity's many abuses and sins. Think about it--how on earth would we even have the concept of "purpose" if the Judeo-Christian religions hadn't created it? How often did we, as Christians, believe we had finally discovered our PURPOSE, only to later discover we were totally wrong and oh no here's the REAL purpose, hiding under the couch! Whatever this mystical purpose is or was, it sure wasn't easy to discern or hang onto. No, that took prophets and pastors to figure out and ratify. It didn't take me long as a Christian to realize that the whole concept was just another leg in the bondage chair Christianity had strapped me into. I'm happy to say that I don't have some divinely-granted "purpose" because there is no such thing as a divinely-granted "purpose." I have stuff I want to accomplish in my life and stuff I feel I can uniquely add to the human race, but to boil the essence of my humanity down to a "purpose" is to disregard the myriad facets that comprise me. I am no more a "purpose" than I am a womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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