My Inevitable Ascent Into Disbelief

[Endemoniada]

Where to start? I suppose I should begin the tale of my deconversion at the same place most of ours began: Sunday school. I can’t say I remember everything from that time, though I do recall being much happier than I am now, and not as obsessed with the state of my ‘immortal soul’ as I would come to be. I was like all the other kids there. Sure I believed in God, Jesus, and the Bible, but I didn’t know what that actually entailed. In fact, I can remember having internal arguments with the teachers when they would say stupid bullshit or make us watch some shoddy Christian propaganda video. But mostly, I just wanted to talk to my friends and eat snacks, and take what enjoyment I could out of it before we were herded into the adult services, where I would follow all the motions to sit down and stand up and sing and try to seriously listen to what the pastor had to say. I spent most Sundays of my formative years sitting there next to my parents in a silly button up shirt, until I was about thirteen and finally (and tentatively), joined the youth group. Little did I know how much of an impact that choice would come to have on my adolescence, I didn’t know.

 

In the youth group we would talk about all kinds of interesting and new ideas, completely supported by the buybull ya’know, about how the universe was created, who we were, and why we were here, and what I should do with my penis. Who knew that evolution was all a big conspiracy by evil in-till-ect-choo-uls to keep people away from god? Who would have guessed that the big bang never happened, and that all those scientists must be lying? Before then, I never questioned it when parents told me that the days in Genesis were not necessarily literal and that god could have populated the world through evolution and created it just as science said while simultaneously not contradicting the bible. When I was very young, I actually wanted to be a scientist when I grew up. But before my freshman year at high school, Religion had me convinced that my biology teacher would make fun of me for being a Christian, and would aggressively try to shove evilution down our throats. But in Reality, neither of those things happened. In fact, most of the science teachers there were Christians, including the biology one (though he did believe in evolution).

 

Who knew that I was dirty rotten sinner who deserved to go to hell, and that life was meaningless without the benevolent vice-grip of god’s hand on every facet of my life, that I shouldn’t make close friends with the ‘other’ and that one should date only other Christians? In the fear of not being ‘unequally yoked’, I never had neither a girlfriend nor a close friendship that I could fully enjoy. Instead I spent my time wondering if she was truly a Christian or not, never asking her on a date even when it was obvious she was attracted to me too. I wasted so many years of my life not having healthy interactions with the opposite sex and instead opting for the fantasy that god would just drop the right woman right into my arms and she would be my perfect match, and I hers. To this day I still don’t have a girlfriend, and wouldn’t know what to do if the subject of sex came up.

 

I didn’t develop the deep friendships I wanted because of the constant exhortation to only hang out with churchies, who I never fit in with. The only people that accepted me at school were definitely not Christians, but I was always afraid they wouldn’t truly accept someone like me, so I usually kept to myself in middle school and the first two years of high school. But something did change in the latter half of my school days. I had been struggling with the fundagelicalism I was being taught at church and FCA, and the cognitive dissonance that told me the way I was thinking was deeply harmful. There were even times when I realized how much happier I would be if I hadn’t been born into a Christian family and had the opportunity to choose my own beliefs, or at least come to Christ on my own without the religious bullcrap and feeling like I had to go to church three times a week. But I never admitted to myself that I did have a choice just as I was, thinking I would have to keep trucking on until I graduated from college and got to be entirely on my own. Of course, the choice was in my hands the entirety of my life, I simply wasn’t brave enough to be myself and disappoint my parents.

 

Eventually though, I did have to make a choice. At the end of my Christian ‘walk’, I simply had too many unanswered questions that I had piled up and put in a box labeled “To be filed at a later date”. I begrudged every Sunday at church, every Wednesday at youth group, and every Friday at Campus Life. I never would have thought to stop going to one or more of them, or ask for a pastor’s help, not wanting to seem like anything put a perfect disciple of Jeebus, and knowing I would only get the ‘right’ answers that had been teaching me for so many years anyway. Eventually I found answers in ‘liberal’ Christianity, hoping that maybe these beliefs wouldn’t make seem bat-shit-insane to all the kool kids at college who would make fun of me for being Christian. But that didn’t even last a year, and I don't think it ever would have lasted. I soon found videos from the Atheist Experience on YouTube and somehow got here, at Ex-C. I do believe that my life has drastically improved since I’ve deconverted, but sometimes I still struggle with finding meaning in my new life. I want to do everything I can with it before it’s gone, and at the same time I go back to old ways of believing that all that effort will mean nothing once I’m not around to appreciate it. Now I feel like just another product of the Ass. Of God who didn’t fit with the master plan and so was thrown to the side and left on his own. Maybe here I can find the answers I’ve always been looking for. Or perhaps they’re inside me, waiting to be found.

[Adam5]

Hi Endemoniada, welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing your testimony. I had a similar experience, with liberal Christianity, its like the last dead end cul-de-sac, before you escape the maze of Christianity. Cheers, Adam

[raoul]

If it's any consolation, your story sounds very similar in parts to mine and others' as well over here. Much of what you have gone through as been the result of other peoples' teaching (sinner, going to hell, etc.). Once you've come out of that environment you'll begin to realize that ALL teachings of that nature should be looked at for what they really are - psychological projections based on one's personal opinion and nothing more. Yes I know how they say 'the bible says' but what they really mean is

'this is my own version/interpretation of what the bible says' which is, for the most part, incredibly wrong.

[freeasabird]

Welcome for the forum. I'm glad things are better for you now, that was my experience as well - we are the lucky ones!! There is a certain joy to looking behind the curtain even if it's not what we expected. REAL life is so much better. Enjoy your stay here.

[Endemoniada]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I know what you mean about getting out of the environment. I haven't gone to church in weeks and I don't miss that horrible feeling of dread at all. I know I haven't been so active recently because of all the stuff I'm doing now, but I'll start trying to make time for regular posts.

[3DollarBill]

Let's get one thing straight...you can "descend" into depression, addiction, self-loathing, etc etc. Recognizing an irrational and immoral scam for what it is...that's rising above. Welcome to the real world.

[bornagainathiest]

Dear Endemoniada,

 

I happen to agree 100% with 3DollarBill.

 

What you are going thru is not a descent, but an ascent.

 

I've often likened the process to escaping from quicksand. You struggle to free yourself from the sticky, insidious grip of the black, sucking mud, where failure to do so doesn't bring any kind of illumination or clarity. Instead, being engulfed and swallowed up by the mud is a one-way journey downwards into darkness, away from the light.

 

Life, light and freedom are all found above and outside of the mire. Beneath the surface lurks guilt, shame, fear and denial. Christianity is a turgid morass of blind superstition, adherence to blood-thirsty ancient beliefs, submission to authority figures and emotional blackmail. The sooner you climb out of the quagmire, into the clear light of reason and rationality, the better.

 

Keep going up!

 

Btw, welcome and if you're from Urth are you this kind of Urthling?

 

 

BAA

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Welcome! Most of us can relate to you! Those who can't, are our resident christians. They can relate to you a year or so before deconversion

 

The more I learn, the more I realize the emotional abuse that is Christianity. I'd never make fun of people for holding such beliefs, it would be like making fun of someone in an abusive relationship for staying in it. I do try to point out to them sometimes the unhealthiness of it though, because I care about people (more than I ever did as a Christian.)

[Endemoniada]

Dear Endemoniada,

 

I happen to agree 100% with 3DollarBill.

 

What you are going thru is not a descent, but an ascent.

 

I've often likened the process to escaping from quicksand. You struggle to free yourself from the sticky, insidious grip of the black, sucking mud, where failure to do so doesn't bring any kind of illumination or clarity. Instead, being engulfed and swallowed up by the mud is a one-way journey downwards into darkness, away from the light.

 

Life, light and freedom are all found above and outside of the mire. Beneath the surface lurks guilt, shame, fear and denial. Christianity is a turgid morass of blind superstition, adherence to blood-thirsty ancient beliefs, submission to authority figures and emotional blackmail. The sooner you climb out of the quagmire, into the clear light of reason and rationality, the better.

 

Keep going up!

 

Btw, welcome and if you're from Urth are you this kind of Urthling?

 

 

BAA

 

Yep, it is. I have all the New Sun books and that one, but I stopped reading the series before I finished so I could read Snow Crash. I'll get back to it eventually though, once I've read about twenty other books first. XD

[Thought2Much]

Former Assemblies of God person here, with nearly 20 years inside. Trust me when I tell you that I know where you're coming from. When I was telling people at an atheist meetup the things that the Assemblies of God believe as a matter of doctrine, people were saying things like, "Wait a minute. You're telling me that actual adults believe that? You're kidding, right?" Nope, I wasn't kidding. You don't realize how majorly fucked up the whole thing is until you try to explain it to someone that's never heard of it before.

[bornagainathiest]

Dear Endemoniada,

 

I happen to agree 100% with 3DollarBill.

 

What you are going thru is not a descent, but an ascent.

 

I've often likened the process to escaping from quicksand. You struggle to free yourself from the sticky, insidious grip of the black, sucking mud, where failure to do so doesn't bring any kind of illumination or clarity. Instead, being engulfed and swallowed up by the mud is a one-way journey downwards into darkness, away from the light.

 

Life, light and freedom are all found above and outside of the mire. Beneath the surface lurks guilt, shame, fear and denial. Christianity is a turgid morass of blind superstition, adherence to blood-thirsty ancient beliefs, submission to authority figures and emotional blackmail. The sooner you climb out of the quagmire, into the clear light of reason and rationality, the better.

 

Keep going up!

 

Btw, welcome and if you're from Urth are you this kind of Urthling?

 

 

BAA

 

Yep, it is. I have all the New Sun books and that one, but I stopped reading the series before I finished so I could read Snow Crash. I'll get back to it eventually though, once I've read about twenty other books first. XD

 

Ha! Ain't that the truth?

 

We never have enough time to read all the way thru (insert name of series here) before something else comes alongs and grabs our attention, right?

I got as far as 'Toll the Hounds' (eighth out of eleven) before being lured away by other stuff. So yeah, I know the score.

 

Anyway Endemoniada, have a better one and whatever you do, don't go reading that really, really, really old book of fantasy stories that a lot of people think is reality, ok?

 

Cheers,

 

BAA.

[Endemoniada]

Ha! Ain't that the truth?

 

We never have enough time to read all the way thru (insert name of series here) before something else comes alongs and grabs our attention, right?

I got as far as 'Toll the Hounds' (eighth out of eleven) before being lured away by other stuff. So yeah, I know the score.

 

Anyway Endemoniada, have a better one and whatever you do, don't go reading that really, really, really old book of fantasy stories that a lot of people think is reality, ok?

 

Cheers,

 

BAA.

 

Goddamnit, that reminds of another series I need to get back to. I own the first four Malazan books but I've only read Gardens of the Moon. And I just bought Neuromancer, which I need to read again, and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, which I want to read now that I've seen Blade Runner and wanna see the inspiration behind it. So many books...

[bornagainathiest]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs]

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.

All those moments will be lost... in time, like [coughs] tears in rain.

Time to die."

 

 

BAA

[raoul]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs]

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.

All those moments will be lost... in time, like [coughs] tears in rain.

Time to die."

 

 

BAA

I watched that movie for the upteenth time last week and my feelings are still the same - I felt sorry for the replicants. It must be one of those psychological things I guess.

[bornagainathiest]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs]

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.

All those moments will be lost... in time, like [coughs] tears in rain.

Time to die."

 

 

BAA

I watched that movie for the upteenth time last week and my feelings are still the same - I felt sorry for the replicants. It must be one of those psychological things I guess.

 

Hey, I'm with you Raoul.

We humans fucked them over, real good!

 

The humans came across as manipulative, devious and beyond hope, whereas the replicants (although violent) were more like children-in-adult-bodies. Four year olds, to be exact. Their tantrums kill people. But look at the demise of Ray Batty! Was there any need in the storyline for him to clutch that (white and holy?) bird like that? Not that I can see, unless...

 

Unless... Ridley Scott meant it as a kind of soul-substitute?

Roy dies, but only after saving Deckerds life - thus earning redemption for himself.

Then his souls flies up to heaven, in the form of the bird.

 

In the original version, we didn't get to see Rachel and Deckerd flying to freedom over the wilderness. Instead, the movie ended with them discovering the origami figure of the unicorn, near the elevator. Deckerd's dream of the unicorn was an implant. Just like Rachel's memory of the spider outside her window. The humans were using him (a replicant) to retire the other, rogue replicants. Deckerd wasn't a human with replicant blood on his hands. He's a replicant with the blood of his own kind on him.

 

So, the only character who came out of the entire gloomy, sordid tale with any kind of goodness was Roy.

 

That analysis work for you or am I just reading too much into it?

 

BAA.

[raoul]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs]

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.

All those moments will be lost... in time, like [coughs] tears in rain.

Time to die."

 

 

BAA

I watched that movie for the upteenth time last week and my feelings are still the same - I felt sorry for the replicants. It must be one of those psychological things I guess.

 

Hey, I'm with you Raoul.

We humans fucked them over, real good!

 

The humans came across as manipulative, devious and beyond hope, whereas the replicants (although violent) were more like children-in-adult-bodies. Four year olds, to be exact. Their tantrums kill people. But look at the demise of Ray Batty! Was there any need in the storyline for him to clutch that (white and holy?) bird like that? Not that I can see, unless...

 

Unless... Ridley Scott meant it as a kind of soul-substitute?

Roy dies, but only after saving Deckerds life - thus earning redemption for himself.

Then his souls flies up to heaven, in the form of the bird.

 

In the original version, we didn't get to see Rachel and Deckerd flying to freedom over the wilderness. Instead, the movie ended with them discovering the origami figure of the unicorn, near the elevator. Deckerd's dream of the unicorn was an implant. Just like Rachel's memory of the spider outside her window. The humans were using him (a replicant) to retire the other, rogue replicants. Deckerd wasn't a human with replicant blood on his hands. He's a replicant with the blood of his own kind on him.

 

So, the only character who came out of the entire gloomy, sordid tale with any kind of goodness was Roy.

 

That analysis work for you or am I just reading too much into it?

 

BAA.

Actually it's a beautiful description BAA and quite believable. Especially your description of them acting like kids with a bit of killer in them.

[antix]

When you realize some issues do not have christian answers (judges 11:29-40) and as someone on this board has pointed out: Ask yourself this: did you see fruits of the spirit in even 10 percent of christians.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with asking questions, if someone at church gets upset, it shows they are goose stepping for the cause. Also, about your testimony: ask yourself this: Why is it the non christians were much more accepting than the christians? Honestly, most of the christians I have met in my life have a god that is represented by a symbol: $

[Akheia]

Hi! Wow, that must have been ghastly to experience. AoG sounds just insane to me, and I was UPC (AoG's weird snake-handling red-headed sister). Glad you're out of it. It's still a bit new but hang in there and that normal-life stuff will start happening, I'm also sure. You're free.

 

I'm in the middle of reading "The Long Run" by Daniel Keys Moran to my husband and oh my gosh he is completely hooked. It's the most hilarious thing. Have you ever looked at it? I think it didn't get nearly as much attention as it deserved. It's a little on the old side (like 1989 I think) but DAMN. "Snow Crash" is a classic. Loved it. You've got great taste, which I can tell definitively because by wild coincidence it seems to mirror my own. I'm very discerning that way, you see.

 

Looking forward to seeing you more around the board Welcome!