Amethyst Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 University Cancels Class on Creationism TOPEKA, Kan. - A University of Kansas course devoted to debunking creationism and intelligent design has been canceled after the professor who planned to teach it caused a furor by sending an e-mail mocking Christian fundamentalists. Twenty-five students had enrolled in the course, originally called "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and Other Religious Mythologies," which had been scheduled for the spring. Professor Paul Mirecki, chairman of religious studies, canceled the class Wednesday, the university said. Mirecki recently sent an e-mail to members of a student organization in which he referred to religious conservatives as "fundies" and said a course depicting intelligent design as mythology would be a "nice slap in their big fat face." He later apologized, and did so again Thursday in a statement issued by the university. "I made a mistake in not leading by example, in this student organization e-mail forum, the importance of discussing differing viewpoints in a civil and respectful manner," he said. Chancellor Robert Hemenway said Mirecki's comments were "repugnant and vile." "It misrepresents everything the university is to stand for," Hemenway said. The class was added to the curriculum after the Kansas Board of Education decided recently to include more criticism of evolution in science standards for public school students. State Sen. Kay O'Connor, a Mirecki critic, said the university did the right thing. "I'm glad they decided to listen to the public. The public response was so negative because of what seemed to be so hateful coming from the KU professor," said O'Connor, a Republican. "I am critical of his hatefulness toward Christians." So debunking Christianity is "hateful" huh? How about Christian attitudes towards homosexuals, women, liberals, and non-Christians? Why is it that nobody is allowed to debunk Christianity at a college? Are they that afraid that it might actually be true, that their religion is a sham (which it is)? *Gasp, shock, horror!* Can't possibly allow their (adult) kids to learn the truth about the cult, now can they? Grrrr. And yet, they would probably allow the college to have a class "debunking" non-belief. I am so fricking tired of the double-standards! Why, why, why must everyone be so bloody politically correct towards Chrsitians? Why can we not say it is a cult? (It is!) Why can we not say the fricking truth? They must really be terrified of what might happen if everyone stopped believing in their cult. But it's already dying, can't they see that? Are they really so blind? I'm willing to bet that when the oldest generation dies off, and then the baby boomers die, Christianity will probably die off as well, unless it changes to be more like Unitarianism or something. It's outdated, and most people my age have other means of having a social life besides the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 ... They must really be terrified of what might happen if everyone stopped believing in their cult. But it's already dying, can't they see that? Are they really so blind? I'm willing to bet that when the oldest generation dies off, and then the baby boomers die, Christianity will probably die off as well, unless it changes to be more like Unitarianism or something. It's outdated, and most people my age have other means of having a social life besides the church. In our dreams, maybe. Unfortunately, religious fervor is on the rise here in the USA (including xtianity). From an historical perspective, these views tend to ebb and flow from generation to generation, but it's like the flu virus that way. As it comes and goes in its yearly cycle, so too does the religious meme in it's own time. But why oh why did the university have to give into these idiots? As soon as a little light comes out at the end of the tunnel of igorance, it is smashed yet again by the power of idiocy over rational thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Now remember: The Christians are the persecuted ones. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Unfortunately, religious fervor is on the rise here in the USA (including xtianity). I don't know. I think it's only regained popularity because of Dubya. When he leaves office, it'll go back down again. The public can't be stupid enough to pick another Bush if Jeb runs, can they? (On second thought, this is the same public who voted for Dubya twice, and didn't learn from their first mistake.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marcion Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 A few new facts about this story: (1) The course still may be taught in the Fall. (2) The apology was worked out by the professor & the Chancellor/Public Relations, out of concern for losing state funding for other university programs. Yes...in Kansas, conservatives are now in control, and they're constantly threatening to yank funds if their Fundamentalist views are not protected. (3) The worst part of this ... the Chancellor of the University issued a statement today, saying this about the professor's emails: "I want to be clear that I personally find Professor Mirecki’s e-mail comments repugnant and vile." What was so offensive? He said the new pope is a right-wing jerk (which he is), that he never liked taking communion as a child (neither did I), and that intelligent design has no facts to back it up (which it doesn't). The university is caving in to the right wing. They have withdrawn support for this professor based on his private views, expressed in some private emails. Even if they were offensive, they were private remarks! Being a professor means you're not allowed to have an opinion??? If you disagree with the chancellor's statement, please consider writing to the university relations department at: lbretz@ku.edu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 ... (3) The worst part of this ... the Chancellor of the University issued a statement today, saying this about the professor's emails: "I want to be clear that I personally find Professor Mirecki’s e-mail comments repugnant and vile." ... The university is caving in to the right wing. They have withdrawn support for this professor based on his private views, expressed in some private emails. Even if they were offensive, they were private remarks! Being a professor means you're not allowed to have an opinion??? Anyone else see the double standard here? The professor (who was/is going to teach the course) wrote his opinion in a private email, for which he is rebuked, and the Chancellor feels like he has to give his opinion rubutting the email, and this somehow saves the university's face? Now what if I'm offended by the chancellor's email/opinion? I happen to agree with the professor. His statements about ID are not "vile" or "repugnant", they're the damn truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 While I am disappointed at the withdrawal of the class, the professor did make highly unprofessional comments. At my university (very liberal), such comments would not be tolerated either. A university's place is to practice freedom of thought and seek truth, not ridicule those who hold the opposing (even though naive and stupid) POV. It is unfortunate that we must be so careful, but in a setting like a university, we must be careful to be respectful, even when those who hold opposing views are not respectful. For all intents and purposes, the university represents the rest of the freethought community... and it should act like something to be respected. Professionalism is a must, even for the lacksadasical liberal intelligentsia. Now what we (they) say to oneanother over dinner and wine is another matter... but on everything officially "university" I agree that such name calling is unacceptable. ... (3) The worst part of this ... the Chancellor of the University issued a statement today, saying this about the professor's emails: "I want to be clear that I personally find Professor Mirecki’s e-mail comments repugnant and vile." ... The university is caving in to the right wing. They have withdrawn support for this professor based on his private views, expressed in some private emails. Even if they were offensive, they were private remarks! Being a professor means you're not allowed to have an opinion??? Anyone else see the double standard here? The professor (who was/is going to teach the course) wrote his opinion in a private email, for which he is rebuked, and the Chancellor feels like he has to give his opinion rubutting the email, and this somehow saves the university's face? Now what if I'm offended by the chancellor's email/opinion? I happen to agree with the professor. His statements about ID are not "vile" or "repugnant", they're the damn truth. Even though I was not informed of this upfront (I found out in a rather dramatic and embarrassing manner), at my university, all my emails to pharmacy school professors are printed and put in my file. I hate it.. it invades my privacy, but it is the university's email... not my own personal account. I don't like it and in fact I disagree with the way the pharmacy school acts like Big Brother, but I respect it... there's nothing much I can do about it, especially since the school won't admit to monitoring students like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 While I am disappointed at the withdrawal of the class, the professor did make highly unprofessional comments. At my university (very liberal), such comments would not be tolerated either. A university's place is to practice freedom of thought and seek truth, not ridicule those who hold the opposing (even though naive and stupid) POV. It is unfortunate that we must be so careful, but in a setting like a university, we must be careful to be respectful, even when those who hold opposing views are not respectful. For all intents and purposes, the university represents the rest of the freethought community... and it should act like something to be respected. Professionalism is a must, even for the lacksadasical liberal intelligentsia. Now what we (they) say to oneanother over dinner and wine is another matter... but on everything officially "university" I agree that such name calling is unacceptable. ... You're right, and I recant what I said previously. After some more consideration, even though I agree with the professor, his phraseology was, shall we say, a little lackluster in the civility department. His cause ended up a little betrayed by his means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Heh... it's not that big of a deal, but you said what I meant to say... his cause was discredited by his disrespect. Oh well.. I hope he still gets to teach the course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Now remember: The Christians are the persecuted ones. Merlin What do you want to bet he got serious death threats. Does any one know if he was tenured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 What do you want to bet he got serious death threats. Does any one know if he was tenured? Hey, if you can't beat 'em in the classroom... Dude, btw, I love your avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad3232132 Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 In our dreams, maybe. Unfortunately, religious fervor is on the rise here in the USA (including xtianity). I disagree with your assessment that religious fervor is on the rise. I think it's just that a small %, roughly the 15-20% of self described Evangelicals have become more religiously fervent and active. Overall, religion is on the decline here in the U.S. The % of self described Christians is at it's lowest point ever, and church attendence is consistently declining. Also, the % of people claiming "no religion" is at its highest point ever- roughly 10-15% depending on which poll you look at. I don't think there is any reason to believe that America is becoming more religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I dunno... it might well be that the professor leaked the e-mail on purpose... I was reading in World Magzine blog yesterday about this same subject, and two topics above it was about a state legislature being reprimanded by a higher court for invoking "Jesus on high." in thier opening prayers. They were screaming bloody murder about freedom of speech!!! (Another guy posted the link showing it was actually a presbyterian minister and two roman catholics that were the plaintiffs, but they ignored that for the most part.) I found it ironic the double standard they had in such a short space of topics. ...perhaps the prof was capitalizing on the double standard, generate a few big headlines to show they aren't all a bunch of creationist hicks. Heck, notoriety might even improve the number of kids who WANT to take the course. I may be way off base, but anything's possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 I disagree with your assessment that religious fervor is on the rise. I think it's just that a small %, roughly the 15-20% of self described Evangelicals have become more religiously fervent and active. Overall, religion is on the decline here in the U.S. The % of self described Christians is at it's lowest point ever, and church attendence is consistently declining. Also, the % of people claiming "no religion" is at its highest point ever- roughly 10-15% depending on which poll you look at. I don't think there is any reason to believe that America is becoming more religious. I think you're right. It is mostly the older people (50+) who go to church -- the baby boomer's generation and their parents. Gen Xers are more likely to not go, or only go at Christmas & Easter, or join an alternative religion like Wicca or something. I'm willing to bet that they probably put Christian on the census poll because they don't want to admit that they're not. (1) The course still may be taught in the Fall. Good. While I am disappointed at the withdrawal of the class, the professor did make highly unprofessional comments. At my university (very liberal), such comments would not be tolerated either. A university's place is to practice freedom of thought and seek truth, not ridicule those who hold the opposing (even though naive and stupid) POV. It is unfortunate that we must be so careful, but in a setting like a university, we must be careful to be respectful, even when those who hold opposing views are not respectful. For all intents and purposes, the university represents the rest of the freethought community... and it should act like something to be respected. Professionalism is a must, even for the lacksadasical liberal intelligentsia. Good point. Someone in a corporation who sent an e-mail like that would probably be fired on the spot these days. You have to be politically correct at all times at work, no matter how annoying the fundies are. It's kind of sad, but you really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 In our dreams, maybe. Unfortunately, religious fervor is on the rise here in the USA (including xtianity). I disagree with your assessment that religious fervor is on the rise. I think it's just that a small %, roughly the 15-20% of self described Evangelicals have become more religiously fervent and active. Overall, religion is on the decline here in the U.S. The % of self described Christians is at it's lowest point ever, and church attendence is consistently declining. Also, the % of people claiming "no religion" is at its highest point ever- roughly 10-15% depending on which poll you look at. I don't think there is any reason to believe that America is becoming more religious. Only a small %? They're a pretty vocal minority, then. I was aware that ~15% of people in the US admitted to professing no religion (they're no where around where I live), but the religious activists seem like they're on a crusade to take over the country (or retake the country, as they often say). Or maybe it's just because I live in Abilene, TX, but it seems everywhere I turn there is someone "witnessing," preaching, or otherwise speaking about their Christian faith. I would fear for my life here if I dared put a darwin fish on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I would fear for my life here if I dared put a darwin fish on my car. Can't you just feel the love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 Only a small %? They're a pretty vocal minority, then. I was aware that ~15% of people in the US admitted to professing no religion (they're no where around where I live), but the religious activists seem like they're on a crusade to take over the country (or retake the country, as they often say). Or maybe it's just because I live in Abilene, TX, but it seems everywhere I turn there is someone "witnessing," preaching, or otherwise speaking about their Christian faith. I would fear for my life here if I dared put a darwin fish on my car. In MN, it's not so bad. It might just be a Southern USA thing. Keep in mind that Dubya is from Texas too. I wouldn't fear for my life if I put a Darwin fish on my car, but I'm pretty sure my tires might get slashed by some stupid person. Anyway I want to be able to resell my car eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Can't you just feel the love? "Tough Love" I think they call it... In MN, it's not so bad. It might just be a Southern USA thing. Keep in mind that Dubya is from Texas too. I wouldn't fear for my life if I put a Darwin fish on my car, but I'm pretty sure my tires might get slashed by some stupid person. Anyway I want to be able to resell my car eventually. Yeah, they don't call it the "Bible Belt" for nothing. But hey, as long as I keep my atheist views to myself (unless proselytized to), the people can be quite friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Now remember: The Christians are the persecuted ones. Merlin What do you want to bet he got serious death threats. Does any one know if he was tenured? Scary thought... I wouldn't be surprised. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I always thought college was the place in academia for the expression of unpopular opinions. I thought they weren't subject to the same strictures as public schools. Apparently not. Crazy Tiger, who is that in your avatar, and where did you find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Crazy Tiger, who is that in your avatar, and where did you find it? It's a fan-made picture of Raven durng the end ot the world, based on the "Titans" comic from the mid 80's... Found while doing a search for pictures of the "Teen Titans" on a P2P network and I just knew it'd be a great avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Are you sure it's fan-made? It looks like something from the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Are you sure it's fan-made? It looks like something from the show. I changed it... this is the one that I had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Oooooohhh... that explains my confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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