How Do I Tell My Mother? Reconcile Past? Go About Future?

[Tzarza]

Hello, my name is Tzarza, and I'm a new ex.

(Hello, Tzarza).

 

Background: [[A few months ago, I finally, fully accepted that I no longer believed in Jesus/Christinity/etc. I grew up in a Christian household (well with my single Christian mother), and went to a private Christian high school. I didn't realize how absolutely fundamentalist my indoctrination was until just a year or two ago. I've always been questioning and critical, but I held onto belief because wanted to give Christianity every chance possible. The biggest hurdle for me was to admit that each one of the loving and caring people who raised me was crazy, instead of believing that I was just having a difficult time with Christianity. Today, I am fully deconverted.]]

 

1. A few days ago, I received an email from mother saying, "On another note…you sent two bibles home with me. I opened one as I was working on our lesson and I saw your notes. Have LOVED looking through different chapters and seeing your thoughts and comments. That has really helped me since you are so far away. On several levels!" I think those notes were from years ago, probably high school. I sent the bibles home with her after packing all of my stuff up to be donated before moving to South Korea. How do I tell her? I want to tell her because we have a good relationship, but I know that I'll just make her cry, and be alarmed, and scared that her baby is so far away and without the Lord. I know that she means well. PS her husband of four years is right-wing/fundie/tea partyer/conservative/militia man. I think he's had a more fundie influence on her than she was before. She could also just go batshit crazy on me and try to verbally chuck the bible at me. I'm sure either way, I'll be the subject of small group bible studies for awhile. I think she'll just cry though, and I'll feel like a prick. (How do I summon the courage to ruin her day? Which day is best to ruin? Do I ruin it in the morning so that she cries all day, or at night so that she can't sleep?)

 

2. I have a bunch of guilt wrapped up in where I am now. My 'turning away' from my Christian roots is really like saying, "Thanks for raising me and such, you've made me into a wonderful person, but I think you are delusional. I'd like to stop being a part of your delusion" to everyone from my past. That's a huge slap in the face to a bunch of really well-intentioned and kind people (sheople). How do I reconcile every positive thing that Christian people (or my mother) in my past did for me, with how I perceive them now (blind cult followers)?

 

3. It may be strange to be anxious about people I could potentially never see again, but I also have a lot of anxiety about something like a 10 year Christian school reunion. I see facebook posts from high school people, and 99% of them are more hard core than they were in high school; all getting married for Jesus and raising Godly families. Do I impose exile on myself and just never see them again? Do I come out like a peacock? Do I just play things cool? This occupies an unhealthy amount of my thoughts. (Is this normal? Why do I obsess over this thing?)

 

Sorry I couldn't make this more focused. I have a lot of un-figured-out feelings about all of this, which is unusual for me. Help me sort one or two of them out?

 

Thanks, new support group.

[wndwalkr99]

Hello, Tzarza! Welcome to Ex-C.

 

I don't have specific answers for you that spring to mind (I was never a Christian per se - tried, but just couldn't stomach it) so I think others may have more for you. Just wanted to welcome you.

 

I live in a religious area of the US and there are many wonderful people here. Most of them are religious. Naturally, there are a lot of fucking assholes too, and most of them are also religious.

 

So I've come to the conclusion that good people tend to do good things and bad people tend to do bad things. The only thing that can consistently make good people do bad things is religion (it doesn't work the other way around, either). So the fact that good people who are religious exist is a testament to how truly good they really are. I don't know if that helps you with your reconciliation or not, but it's helped me to see that while these people are "blind cult followers" as you put it - and I agree - they deserve respect and maybe even awe for being good people even through their delusion.

 

As for your reunion - I don't see any reason to bring up your lack of belief without provocation, but if someone says something to you with the expectation that you will agree with them, don't hesitate to tell them "actually, I don't think that's the case" or something along those lines. No need to elaborate, but there's nothing wrong with putting them on notice that not everyone believes what they do.

[mymistake]

Welcome to ex-C

 

First thing that jumps out at me is that your point 2. I don't see anything wrong with having that attitude. If your mom did good raising you it's okay to be grateful for that and it's okay to believe her religion is delusional. Maybe you just need to get more comfortable separating the two ideas because they can be true at the same time. If you mom met somebody at church and they had been raised in a different religion she would have no problem telling them to drop that other religion for Christianity.

 

You don't have to tell you mom anything. I choose to tell my mother because I was worried that word would get around and she would hear from another source. She was angry the first day but she has been decent about it ever since. You make it sound like you will never visit home again. If that is the case you don't need to feel the slightest bit guilty if you decide to tell your mother comforting lies. Christians love to be told comforting lies. It's why they go to church in the first place. As long as your double life doesn't get uncovered you can stick to it. If that is not for you or you can't maintain it then you can tell your mother the truth. I don't know her but I do know what Christianity programs into people about this kind of situation. It would be bad but how she handles it depends on her. In the end you know her, it's your life and you will live with the results. Try not to feel guilty. Most of this nonsense comes from the theology. You didn't invent Christianity or make it such a mind trap. You guys are victims of Chrisitnaity. You simply escaped it. You didn't tell the lies Christianity spreads about those who escape.

[Akheia]

Hi Tzarza! Sounds exciting, this trip to SK. You don't mention if it's permanent or why you're there, but I hope you're getting what you wanted out of it. I'd love to visit there one day; it's such a vibrant nation. And dammit, I thought that before I ever heard of Psy.

 

Advice is the worst vice of them all but since you ask...

I suggest you figure out the pros and cons of coming out. If your mom controls your finances in any way, or you fear for your safety or your familial bond, there's no reason you have to tell her a single thing. In that case you're like a prisoner of a hostile regime. The militia man thing worries me a bit as they can get violent when challenged. It's not just your mother's reaction you need to consider, but his. While you are absolutely not responsible for your mother's or stepfather's reactions, you would be perfectly in the right to carefully consider the very real repercussions these adherents of "the religion of peace and love" could inflict on you. If there are no such worries for you (ie, you've cut financial ties, are independent, are not worried about your mom or stepfather hurting you or destroying your familial bond with siblings/relatives, and aren't in the very least worried about your safety around the teabagging fundie militia freak), then drive on to the next window.

 

There's no guilt at all in this deconversion. Your mom raised you to be a logical, rational adult who thinks for herself. And you did, despite all attempts to indoctrinate you. She should be proud that you're willing to forge your own path like this and question dogma at every turn. Of course, that might not be her actual reaction, but since you did not deconvert specifically to hurt her, as long as you're respectful and loving toward her if you tell her the truth, any childish tantrum-throwing is her problem and not yours. Sometimes parents will react very strongly and negatively toward these revelations, but you need to understand that if you give her no specific offense, then her reaction won't have anything to do with you specifically. Parents suffer from a lot of imposed guilt as it is, and successfully indoctrinating their child is supposed to be a no-brainer. Failing that is like failing to give you food or failing to educate you, except worse because it's your ZOMG SOUL. A lot is wrapped up in a child's deconversion. It's okay to feel a bit sympathetic even as you refuse to buy into the lies anymore.

 

That said: There is absolutely no reason for you to be honest with someone who does not value and cherish your honesty. In that "pros and cons" scenario I outlined above, you should examine very carefully why you'd come out to your parents and what you'd hope to see happen as a result. Sometimes we have unrealistic expectations and the coming-out can be devastating. Be realistic here. Many ex-Cs choose never to come out, and that's totally okay. If you don't have a lot of contact with your mom, if she's not trying to drag you to church every single time you see her, if she's a distant force in your life and you aren't tied to her financially or socially, there's little impetus to unnecessarily distract her. As another here has said, Christians love comforting lies and false fronts and veneers of fakery, and oh don't I know this is true. If you guys just don't ever see each other much, when you do get together she's going to be thinking of a lot of other things besides religion and she'll be far more likely to overlook a deconversion just to see you. But if you see her a lot or her insistence on religiosity is constant, the elephant in the room becomes a far more menacing presence that must be eradicated, and embarking on that battle becomes a way more realistic course. Only you know which of these things is best for you.

 

Also, you have no obligation to attend your reunion if the people in it are that offensively in-your-face religious. You're allowed to say on FB that you don't feel comfortable with such blatant nonsense, you are allowed to refute the obvious urban legends they send around, and you are allowed to block and de-friend those who continue to stomp on your feelings, assault you with disproven junk science and logical fallacies, and trample you with Christian privilege. People can only bother you if you let 'em. You are under no obligation to talk to anybody about anything, either, or required to justify yourself. "I'm not religious anymore" and a follow-up "I don't feel comfortable talking about religion" should handle 100% of anything that comes up. Repeat them often enough and use a monotone with a bland smile while you do it, and even the densest fundies will get the point.

 

Good luck, I know this is hard, but you sound like you're well up for the task. Enjoy SK!

[ConureDelSol]

Hello, my name is Tzarza, and I'm a new ex.

(Hello, Tzarza).

 

Background: [[A few months ago, I finally, fully accepted that I no longer believed in Jesus/Christinity/etc. I grew up in a Christian household (well with my single Christian mother), and went to a private Christian high school. I didn't realize how absolutely fundamentalist my indoctrination was until just a year or two ago. I've always been questioning and critical, but I held onto belief because wanted to give Christianity every chance possible. The biggest hurdle for me was to admit that each one of the loving and caring people who raised me was crazy, instead of believing that I was just having a difficult time with Christianity. Today, I am fully deconverted.]]

 

1. A few days ago, I received an email from mother saying, "On another note…you sent two bibles home with me. I opened one as I was working on our lesson and I saw your notes. Have LOVED looking through different chapters and seeing your thoughts and comments. That has really helped me since you are so far away. On several levels!" I think those notes were from years ago, probably high school. I sent the bibles home with her after packing all of my stuff up to be donated before moving to South Korea. How do I tell her? I want to tell her because we have a good relationship, but I know that I'll just make her cry, and be alarmed, and scared that her baby is so far away and without the Lord. I know that she means well. PS her husband of four years is right-wing/fundie/tea partyer/conservative/militia man. I think he's had a more fundie influence on her than she was before. She could also just go batshit crazy on me and try to verbally chuck the bible at me. I'm sure either way, I'll be the subject of small group bible studies for awhile. I think she'll just cry though, and I'll feel like a prick. (How do I summon the courage to ruin her day? Which day is best to ruin? Do I ruin it in the morning so that she cries all day, or at night so that she can't sleep?)

 

2. I have a bunch of guilt wrapped up in where I am now. My 'turning away' from my Christian roots is really like saying, "Thanks for raising me and such, you've made me into a wonderful person, but I think you are delusional. I'd like to stop being a part of your delusion" to everyone from my past. That's a huge slap in the face to a bunch of really well-intentioned and kind people (sheople). How do I reconcile every positive thing that Christian people (or my mother) in my past did for me, with how I perceive them now (blind cult followers)?

 

3. It may be strange to be anxious about people I could potentially never see again, but I also have a lot of anxiety about something like a 10 year Christian school reunion. I see facebook posts from high school people, and 99% of them are more hard core than they were in high school; all getting married for Jesus and raising Godly families. Do I impose exile on myself and just never see them again? Do I come out like a peacock? Do I just play things cool? This occupies an unhealthy amount of my thoughts. (Is this normal? Why do I obsess over this thing?)

 

Sorry I couldn't make this more focused. I have a lot of un-figured-out feelings about all of this, which is unusual for me. Help me sort one or two of them out?

 

Thanks, new support group.

 

Well I can tell you one thing: Don't come out on Facebook before coming out to your parents. Too many people on this site have gone that route and it blew up in their faces.

 

The other thing is that I'm in a similar situation to you except for the whole "being in South Korea" thing. I'm at the point where I'm trying to get my degree and cut off financial ties, but it will still be a few years before that happens. Through conversations I wish I'd never had with them they have figured out that I'm one, not a Christian and am two, very, very liberal and am in support of secularism but the word "atheist" or even "agnostic" hasn't come up yet. I plan to write a letter/email when I finally come out though, because I feel like I could better organize my thoughts that way, I can't be interrupted and I can take the time to cut off all communication with them for a good week or so in order for them to have a chance to vent steam and think on what I tell them.

 

I understand how it can occupy your mind constantly. It does for me too, especially because I still live with my parents. Honestly, this site and coming out to my closest friend who I know won't judge me for my atheism has helped. Do you have any friends like that you can rely on? Also, venting here is a great way to get some of those thoughts out in the open. Don't be afraid to tell us all of your frustrations!

 

Unrelated but...are there any interesting birds in South Korea? Parrots?

[new2me]

Hi Tzarza,

 

Welcome! I am also a "new-ex". I haven't told my parents, and I don't plan to unless I get backed into a corner somehow. I am very close with my mom, who is very active in her non-denominational church, but the topic of religion rarely comes up in conversation. I am on good terms with my dad (who probably attends a Southern Baptist church), but I only see him once or twice a year and talk to him infrequently on the phone. There may come a time when he might ask whether I have found a church, but I will probably dodge that bullet with talk about being too busy.

 

I did talk to my dad recently on the phone and he talked about attending a funeral for a woman he knew for a long time. He was concerned because he didn't know if she "knew the Lord", but found that as she was dying of cancer, she had a visit from a pastor and "received the Lord". This made him feel very relieved. I bit my tongue and mm-hmmm'ed through the story. I wanted to scream out that he was wasting his time worrying about that stuff! My husband gave me the proper perspective... that believing his friend is in heaven gave him comfort so I should just be happy for him.

 

I don't want to upset my parents with the knowledge of my deconversion. I have been on my own for a long time now and my parents stopped trying to run my life a very long time ago. But I feel that I can still maintain an authentic relationship with my parents without telling them where I stand on the god thing. If that changes, I might need to reassess my strategy.

 

I don't post anything on Facebook related to religion, politics, or anything controversial - but I also see no need to do that. I think of Facebook as a way to share pictures with friends or little snippets of my life without jamming up people's email inboxes. If it is important for you to state your world view on Facebook, then you've got to be prepared for some backlash. If FB friends are unkind or judgmental, drop them. You don't need toxic people in your life.

 

I guess the bottom line is that you don't have to tell anyone your views on Christianity if you don't want to discuss it with them. Go to your HS reunion if you want to. By that time you will know yourself better and be more independent. Anyone who looks down on you for not sharing their religious views is not someone whose opinion should matter to you. You might even find a few classmates who have also made a quiet exit from the insanity.

 

Again, welcome! I'm sure you'll find this forum helpful.

[chipper]

Welcome Tzarza, I'm also a newbie here. I'm in the same boat as many others, my family doesn't know but I'm selecting who I plan to tell. For me my wife is first because I can't imagine keeping up a marriage forever without her knowing, by the way I de-converted after we got married otherwise I would have told her before the vows. My dad is someone I may never tell because he's older and I know he'll take it poorly and waste a lot of time trying to convert and lecture me.

 

As far as the reunion goes, try not to worry about it too much. How far out is this reunion anyways? If its not this year, forget about it for a while and go explore your new surroundings. I'm totally jealous, I'd love to have an opportunity to live in South Korea for a while.

[Tzarza]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I really appreciated hearing from you (sorry I haven't figured out how to quote yet, maybe I'll try it on my next post). It's comforting to hear about other people in similar situations. I'm teaching English in South Korea, I'll be here for a year at least. I haven't decided what I'll do when the contract is up.

 

Thank you to Akheia, good idea.

Pros would be that I really have a solid relationship with mom already, and I feel like this is the only unresolved thing between us. I'm not really dependent at all any more. Regarding facebook/going public etc, I want so badly to just be honest about who I am. I can't go public without coming out to mother first, so that's why I feel so compelled to tell her.

Cons would be that, although mother will most likely EVENTUALLY be ok with things/settle down, she is much more emotional about things than I am. I know that her reaction will be more emotional than rational, and it may take a really long time for her to be ok with where I am. The reason I mention her hubbie is because he'll probably just exasperate the problem by also being concerned with my 'salvation', and his concern will probably only lengthen the simmering down process.

You also made an excellent point about parents' self-imposed guilt, and I know that she'll be self-piling on the shame from all sides for a little bit, and it'll just keep coming when she shares my departure with anyone important to her. I am convinced that telling her is for the better long-term (because she is a smart, rational gal in the end), but I just don't know how or when to momentarily ruin her life, you know? lol.

 

And the highschool reunion thing is more of a day-dream/nightmare kind of thing. I'm not sure why I'm so concerned, it's not even close (6 years). Any psychologists in the house? haha.

 

@SunConure, I haven't seen too many birds in the city. I see big magpies every now and then close to my school. I've seen a pet store or two, and the birds look so healthy. Beefy little finches, lovebirds, and canaries with perfect feathers and bright eyes.

[blackpudd1n]

Hello, my name is Tzarza, and I'm a new ex.

(Hello, Tzarza).

 

Background: [[A few months ago, I finally, fully accepted that I no longer believed in Jesus/Christinity/etc. I grew up in a Christian household (well with my single Christian mother), and went to a private Christian high school. I didn't realize how absolutely fundamentalist my indoctrination was until just a year or two ago. I've always been questioning and critical, but I held onto belief because wanted to give Christianity every chance possible. The biggest hurdle for me was to admit that each one of the loving and caring people who raised me was crazy, instead of believing that I was just having a difficult time with Christianity. Today, I am fully deconverted.]]

 

Welcome to Ex-C. Tzarza

 

1. A few days ago, I received an email from mother saying, "On another note…you sent two bibles home with me. I opened one as I was working on our lesson and I saw your notes. Have LOVED looking through different chapters and seeing your thoughts and comments. That has really helped me since you are so far away. On several levels!" I think those notes were from years ago, probably high school. I sent the bibles home with her after packing all of my stuff up to be donated before moving to South Korea. How do I tell her? I want to tell her because we have a good relationship, but I know that I'll just make her cry, and be alarmed, and scared that her baby is so far away and without the Lord. I know that she means well. PS her husband of four years is right-wing/fundie/tea partyer/conservative/militia man. I think he's had a more fundie influence on her than she was before. She could also just go batshit crazy on me and try to verbally chuck the bible at me. I'm sure either way, I'll be the subject of small group bible studies for awhile. I think she'll just cry though, and I'll feel like a prick. (How do I summon the courage to ruin her day? Which day is best to ruin? Do I ruin it in the morning so that she cries all day, or at night so that she can't sleep?)

 

If there is one thing I have learned through foster care, it's that the bond between a biological parent and a child is the hardest bond of all to break. I don't think there's any easy way out. How your mum reacts will be hard to determine. There probably will be tough times ahead. However, I think you may find that if your mother's husband tries to get between you two, he may well lose out, if that's any comfort. He might suceed for a little while, but at some point, if you guys are close, her maternal instincts are going to kick in. She's more likely to resent him than you. It's not a game I'd try to play with a mumma-bear.

 

I don't think there really is a good time to tell your mum. It sounds like you want to tell her, though, so whatever happens, we'll be here for you

 

2. I have a bunch of guilt wrapped up in where I am now. My 'turning away' from my Christian roots is really like saying, "Thanks for raising me and such, you've made me into a wonderful person, but I think you are delusional. I'd like to stop being a part of your delusion" to everyone from my past. That's a huge slap in the face to a bunch of really well-intentioned and kind people (sheople). How do I reconcile every positive thing that Christian people (or my mother) in my past did for me, with how I perceive them now (blind cult followers)?

 

Well, you could try seeing them for the people they actually are, in spite of their delusional belief system. Take each person as they come individually. The belief system may complicate things, but essentially, I find that a person is good or bad regardless of what they believe. A good person will tend focus on the nicer elements of the bible, and a bad person on the nastier elements. Who the person is as a person will still shine through regardless of what belief system they hold. Christianity can make a nice person nasty, but not all the time.

 

3. It may be strange to be anxious about people I could potentially never see again, but I also have a lot of anxiety about something like a 10 year Christian school reunion. I see facebook posts from high school people, and 99% of them are more hard core than they were in high school; all getting married for Jesus and raising Godly families. Do I impose exile on myself and just never see them again? Do I come out like a peacock? Do I just play things cool? This occupies an unhealthy amount of my thoughts. (Is this normal? Why do I obsess over this thing?)

 

I think this one is pretty normal, religious school or not. I've got my 10-year reunion coming up next year, and I went to a secular high school. I'm nervous as all hell! I just broke off an engagement, so I'm single, I have no kids, and I just had a hysterectomy, so I'm not going to be popping out kids, either. When most of the girls I went to school with are either partnered up, married, engaged, and a good whack of them have kids, it's pretty daunting. I've even been having dreams about the girls I went to school with, and not nice ones, either! So yeah, I think this, at least, is pretty normal.

[new2me]

 

I think this one is pretty normal, religious school or not. I've got my 10-year reunion coming up next year, and I went to a secular high school. I'm nervous as all hell!

 

My high school experience was not good overall. I almost didn't go to my 10-year reunion. When I walked in the door - single, no date, no kids - I was a nervous wreck. Then I had an epiphany. I reminded myself that these people had no power over my life whatsoever. If people were not nice to me, or I did not have a good time, I could just leave! So I walked in and ended up having a great time. I had great conversations with people who I had barely known during my school years. The cliques were gone - I could talk to and dance with anyone I wanted. People were a lot nicer than I expected.

[Akheia]

I didn't really like very many people in my graduating class so I haven't gone to any of the reunions. I'm not sure what I'd even say if one somehow found me and got in touch with me again. But I can definitely empathize with someone concerned about what their old friends would think. You've got a few years to figure out how to respectfully communicate who you are now to the people you knew then.

 

If you're not dependent on your folks in any way and coming out in general is really important, then I reckon sharing this news with your mom is indeed very important to do first. I don't think she'd want to be the last to know. I hope you find a good way of talking to her about it when the subject comes up.

[Tzarza]

Well I told mother.

 

She took it really well, I was proud of her for actually asking where I was coming from. She did a lot more listening than talking. I don't think she completely understands yet, but she's getting there. And step-padre actually walked in on our (skype) conversation about half way through. Neither of us really included him into the conversation, but he didn't make any effort at joining either.

 

After a long time though, she did ask if I still (despite all I'd been thinking about, everything aside), accepted Jesus as my personal lord and savior. I think it was her effort at giving me 'fire insurance'. I had to explain that the spirit of a lot of what he said was pretty great (love), and those parts I still thought rang with some good, but that I wouldn't call him my personal savior because I don't believe the Jesus xians talk about, the Jesus of the bible really existed.

 

I think she's still in denial because she told me about how she didn't need xianity in her 20s either, but I guess the only way to prove how serious I am would be to never reconvert lol! (easy peasy). There were a few tears, but nothing dramatic.

 

Overall, I feel like she gave me a reason to remember that there are some thoughtful Christians, and that (even if I think their beliefs are circular, or the foundations are mega-questionable), they really are about self-edifying and being better to others.

[Akheia]

That is wonderful to hear. I'm so glad it went so well!

[pandora]

That is really good news! My parents weren't Christian, and my mom was still alive when I came out. She seemed sad because she does believe in a Heaven of sorts because she knew she was going to die soon and a lot of her coming to peace with death was rooted in believing she would see me again.. One day she asked me if I believed that there is an afterlife, that was three days before she died. I felt like shit that I didn't lie to her or at least gave a less harsh answer than I did. She was chronically ill and was supposedly on the brink of death for ten years, but she survived all that time and I guess I took it for granted.

 

Welcome to the site!

[blackpudd1n]

Tzarza, that is such a relief to hear! I am so glad for you That must be a huge weight off your shoulders