There And Back Again, An Agnostic Hobbits Tale

[shortCakeSlayer]

So I'm not really a hobbit. But I did go through quite a whirlwind throughout my deconversion, and I did it pretty much alone.

 

I was raised in a non-denominational, Calvary Chapel going family. My mother was a Sunday school teacher, and was eventually made into the head of the Children's Ministry, which she remains to this very day. She's also been an alcoholic since I was about 11; she started drinking when her own mother fell prey to Alzheimers and lung cancer and took two years to slowly die. She's also still an alcoholic, to this very day, and still drinks. The environment that I was raised in was compeltely toxic; religion was used to justify extremely harmful behavior and attitudes. By the time I was an adult, my worldview was so distorted and my own sense of self so dismembered and twisted that leaving for the military and joining the Marines was probably the best decision I'd made to that day, because it got me away.

 

I was still predominately Christian throughout my military stint. I wrote letters home while deployed to Fallujah in 2004, letters that were poignant and full of Christian idioms, analogies, and resolutions to the problems I was facing. Our church read them out loud to the congregation every Sunday. War had an intense impact, however, on my worldview; and when I returned home after shedding blood, sweat, and tears for God and country, to spend the next six months attempting to out-maneuver an insane gunnery sergeant who sexually harassed me constantly while trying to undermine my career because I was a woman, the entire concept of "Man leads, woman follows" completely crumbled in my head. I'd done extraordinary things, endured completely terrible things, and survived. The concept of submitting to someone simply because of their genitalia was out of the question.

 

So that began the crumbling of a lot of concepts that I'd had hammered into my head from birth. Once I was able to question one thing, I was able to turn back to others things I'd been taught and view them without the fervent bias of indoctrination. I served next to gay and lesbian men and women, who were kind, compassionate, loyal, courageous, and were willing to risk their lives for the country they loved. I realized that they were made the way they were and there wasn't any "choice" involved at all. I saw men unable to provide for their lifelong partners, lovers, and all-but-legal husbands because the military didn't provide benefits for unmarried couples, and gays couldn't marry. I did, however, see men and women who didn't even like each other that much get married so they could take advantage of those benefits, and get divorced as soon as they were out of the military. My best friend was assaulted by her boss, who barely got off for raping her with a slap on the wrist, while amazing Marines who'd dedicated themselves fully to the concept of honor and virtue were stripped of their rank and kicked out of the military because they were discovered to be gay.

 

I got out, bitter, angry, resentful, hard, and shut down. I went to college, and took a few history classes that weren't a part of my degree, just because they seemed interesting, and the professor was a PhD with a southern accent who was one of the most brilliant woman I've ever met. Viewing ancient history outside of a biblical lens made many things make sense to me; understanding the political upheavals that had taken place during Jewish cultural formation, throughout their various enslavements to stronger societies, and how those enslavements shaped and transformed their religion started painting a whole picture for me. I've always loved picking religion apart, and so I started, with every religion. I read Zoroastrian texts, I read gnostic gospels, I even became fully pagan for a while after I admitted to myself I wasn't Christian any longer, and studied long dead indigenous religions with the fervor that comes from finally being free to ask questions without restraint. The one thing that stuck out to me; Christianity has borrowed pretty much everything it is from other places. I began seeing patterns in human thinking and how we all tend to make the same decisions, and repeat our histories, unless we recognize these patterns and intentionally change the decisions we make.

 

I'm no longer pagan; I consider myself agnostic at best, with a bent towards atheism, but religion still fascinates me, as it has such power over shaping human thought. I was extremely angry and bitter towards Christianity for a while but now I just feel nothing except a faint pity, and relief that I managed to break out of an heavy indoctrination as young as I did. My parents have an inkling of my faith change; at this moment, they're not speaking to me, after I posted something on Facebook about an article examining a coptic piece of script that was found referencing the wife of Jesus. Considering that my mother is still struggling with alcoholism and my father is the biggest enabler on the planet, I doubt that our religious scuffle is even the tip of the beginning of a long road of drama with them, but I'm actually content, for the moment. Not a feeling I've ever had up until this point in my life.

 

If anyone has ever dealt with an alcoholic, zealotously religious parent, I'd love to hear from you and how you've dealt with it. I have a good therapist that I'm currently working with, but I have a war, a cheating husband and a divorce, and PTSD to work through as well, and we can only go through so much in an hour once a week

[Positivist]

Welcome to Ex-C, sCS! Wow, what a journey you've had. I am glad you have a good therapist, as you have many things going on at this time in your life.

 

Your story also elucidates the power of a liberal education in setting the mind free from religion.

 

Stick around!

[pandora]

What an amazing story. Welcome to the site! My father died when I was young and my mother was a rather liberal new-agey agnostic type, so I can't really relate to what you are going through with your parents. My ex-husband broke his Fundy mother's heart when he came out as an ex-Christian, so I have seen first hand how such a thing can totally destroy a relationship and mutual respect. My heart goes out to you and your mother. Maybe someday she will no longer need to numb herself from her own mind.

 

Again, welcome and I look forward to hearing your perspective!

[shortCakeSlayer]

Thank you ladies! Appreciate the words of welcome. Positivist, my education was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. It's amazing what being in a religiously sterile environment can do for getting out those hard to reach brainwashing stains.

 

Also, pandora, I have to ask because of your profile info, do you have any parrots? I have two green cheek conures who rule me with an iron fist.

[pandora]

SCS, yes, I have two Dusky conures. Maybe I'll upload a pic or two to my profile so you can see them. They are like having little toddlers around. They kiss, growl, and poop on command. LOL One of mine is a rescue and has some behavioral issues, and he only likes my fiance. The other one is a sweet little thing and loves to lay on her back on my lap. Duskies are actually pretty quiet compared to other conures and I chose the species carefully. I had a Sun Conure in the past and he about busted my eardrums!

 

My dream is to have an African Grey, but I am not sure I could care for it properly unless it is the only pet I have.

[Chikirin]

yuck, Calvary Chapel. Do they have a rule where all males must wear ugly golf shirts? The one I attended was like its own little fiefdom with the pastor as lord.

[Rek99]

Welcome SCS! Pull up a chair, grab a water/coffee/beer, and relax. This has been a great place for me to come and vent about Xianity and how to deal with situations.

[shortCakeSlayer]

yuck, Calvary Chapel. Do they have a rule where all males must wear ugly golf shirts?

 

yes

 

Although now there's also a rule where you can wear uncollard T-shirts and have tattoos, because the Lord accepts all people. As long as they're Christian tattoos.

 

The one I attended was like its own little fiefdom with the pastor as lord.

 

Also yes.

 

I had a hard time with the bashing of other denominations (you can, apparently, be the wrong kind of Christian) and the tendancy to make prophecies that never came true, either, in all it's pastors.

[RipVanWinkle]

Yours is a remarkable personal history. What a strong character you have! My history is not nearly so interesting. I have an older brother who became a fundmentalist when he was a teenager. He has taken it to even more of an extreme than most. He went to an unaccrededited Bible college in Ft. Lauderdale and obtained a master's degree in Biblical Studies and Greek. Thereafter I received a great deal of brainwashing from big brother for years and years. The brainwashing was particularly bad because he was eduucated and trained in apologetics. He had a canned answer for everything. But as I got older and better educated I asked him more penetrating questions and his answers did not seem nearly as clear cut as he representated them to be. One day I picked up a book entitled "The Dark Side of Christian History". What a shock this book was to me.I thought I was fairly well educated. I found out that I was painfully undereducated in history, and christian history in particular. No wonder no church or Sunday school class I ever attended covered the history of christianity. What a bloody, fraudulent and cruel past it has. At first I thouught it might be only the catholics that had such a bleak history. (Not that that should make any difference.) But the protestants are just as bad. That book started me on a long journey of many years in studying christain history ss well as agnosticism and atheism. It as been quite a journey. The world as it really is makes a lot more sense after having decoded the christian myths. The irony is that the apologists make their case even worse because of their clumsy rationalizatins of their positions.

 

I am so glad that you have joined us. I really look forward to reading more about your experiences and hearing some of the wisdom you have gained from them. bill

 

I have seen some bizarre changes in former friends who became fundamendal christians---for the worse. It has truly been painful to see. One of my best friends converted in his forties. He was well educated and very smart. He turned into a far right fundamentalist and abandoned reason and logic insofar as his religion was concerned. Our relaltionship was destroyed because I refused to go down that blind alley he had chosen. He has since died, What huge tragedy. bill

[shortCakeSlayer]

SCS, yes, I have two Dusky conures. Maybe I'll upload a pic or two to my profile so you can see them. They are like having little toddlers around. They kiss, growl, and poop on command. LOL One of mine is a rescue and has some behavioral issues, and he only likes my fiance. The other one is a sweet little thing and loves to lay on her back on my lap. Duskies are actually pretty quiet compared to other conures and I chose the species carefully. I had a Sun Conure in the past and he about busted my eardrums!

 

My dream is to have an African Grey, but I am not sure I could care for it properly unless it is the only pet I have.

 

Totally off topic, buy here's one of my little doods:

 

I've always wanted a bigger parrot, too, but taking on a bird that'll live for 80 years seems like a huge committment. Most marriages don't even last that long *gulp*

[shortCakeSlayer]

Yours is a remarkable personal history. What a strong character you have! My history is not nearly so interesting. I have an older brother who became a fundmentalist when he was a teenager. He has taken it to even more of an extreme than most. He went to an unaccrededited Bible college in Ft. Lauderdale and obtained a master's degree in Biblical Studies and Greek. Thereafter I received a great deal of brainwashing from big brother for years and years. The brainwashing was particularly bad because he was eduucated and trained in apologetics. He had a canned answer for everything. But as I got older and better educated I asked him more penetrating questions and his answers did not seem nearly as clear cut as he representated them to be. One day I picked up a book entitled "The Dark Side of Christian History". What a shock this book was to me.I thought I was fairly well educated. I found out that I was painfully undereducated in history, and christian history in particular. No wonder no church or Sunday school class I ever attended covered the history of christianity. What a bloody, fraudulent and cruel past it has. At first I thouught it might be only the catholics that had such a bleak history. (Not that that should make any difference.) But the protestants are just as bad. That book started me on a long journey of many years in studying christain history ss well as agnosticism and atheism. It as been quite a journey. The world as it really is makes a lot more sense after having decoded the christian myths. The irony is that the apologists make their case even worse because of their clumsy rationalizatins of their positions.

 

I am so glad that you have joined us. I really look forward to reading more about your experiences and hearing some of the wisdom you have gained from them. bill

 

I have seen some bizarre changes in former friends who became fundamendal christians---for the worse. It has truly been painful to see. One of my best friends converted in his forties. He was well educated and very smart. He turned into a far right fundamentalist and abandoned reason and logic insofar as his religion was concerned. Our relaltionship was destroyed because I refused to go down that blind alley he had chosen. He has since died, What huge tragedy. bill

 

It's definitely a tragedy. IMO a spiritual path should make your life richer and more meaningful, and thus make the relationships in that life more meaningful, not destroy them. But I understand where that mindset comes from, which just makes it sadder to me. I've been in the shoes where I've thought that I could not be around someone anymore because they would "corrupt me", or make me stop believing in my faith. (Honestly, if my religion was so capable of standing up under scrutiny then why would I have to cut people out of my life who questioned it in order to continue believing in it?) It's truly one of the greater tragedies of religion in general, when it destroys instead of supports love and friendship.

 

Thank you for your words of welcome

[Guest wester]

"religion was used to justify extremely harmful behavior and attitudes."

 

- here, here - my experience exactly

 

"It's truly one of the greater tragedies of religion in general, when it destroys instead of supports love and friendship."

 

- My family lies in ruins because of this mindset. Close members of my family now have a fantastic relationship with their invisible, imaginary friend(s), but almost no relationship at all with a very real me.

 

 

Thank you very much for this post. Cheers.

[BrotherJosh]

Welcome, Slayer!

[Tzarza]

I'm pretty new too, but welcome!

 

Education also made a huge difference in my life. I was also raised on apologetics and indoctrinated early, so I'm kicking myself for not finally deconverting until my last semester of college. I would have loved to take some classes in Christian history, philosophy, or something that would serve me while navigating this new 'ex-christian' state.

 

And idk if you'll ever run into her in the forum, but you might also like to talk to ConureDelSol about your birdies . Your little dood is adorable!!

[Rek99]

I love birds! I really want a large one as well but I have the same hang-up; I won't even live for 80 more years, and I've seen too many pet shows about birds that basically go crazy after their owners die.

 

The one you took the pic of is the same kind I had growing up. Reilly was such a good bird, but she died. I really want another one!

[shortCakeSlayer]

I love birds! I really want a large one as well but I have the same hang-up; I won't even live for 80 more years, and I've seen too many pet shows about birds that basically go crazy after their owners die.

 

The one you took the pic of is the same kind I had growing up. Reilly was such a good bird, but she died. I really want another one!

 

You should get another one Green cheeks are super cute and sassy, and like pandora alluded to, all Pyrrhura conures are a lot quieter than the bigger Aratinga conures. They still squawk occasionally, but it's more polite.

[shortCakeSlayer]

"religion was used to justify extremely harmful behavior and attitudes."

 

- here, here - my experience exactly

 

"It's truly one of the greater tragedies of religion in general, when it destroys instead of supports love and friendship."

 

- My family lies in ruins because of this mindset. Close members of my family now have a fantastic relationship with their invisible, imaginary friend(s), but almost no relationship at all with a very real me.

 

 

Thank you very much for this post. Cheers.

 

It's a shame to hear that, but I'm going through that too, and I know it's sometimes unavoidable. You can't control other people, despite how much they try to control you And boy, does family ever like to control and manipulate if you walk off their chosen spiritual path!

 

It's hard when the supposed unconditional love you need from your family isn't forthcoming. I'm still struggling with coming to terms with that, and have made many mistakes because I tend to look for alternate family elsewhere, and sometimes allow myself to be pulled in to group-think simply because my need for that sort of support wasn't met/isn't met. Still haven't found an answer for that, but have only resolved to give my eventual children a better family support than I've ever had.

[pandora]

What a cute little cheeky guy! I am working on getting my pics small enough to upload... stay tuned.

[pandora]

[pandora]

This is Odo (my sweet girl) before I taught her to fly. She had to climb around everywhere. LOL

[pandora]

 

This was a neat toy. Odo figured out how to match shapes and put them in the correctly shaped holes in the box.

[pandora]

 

Do your birds every do this? Odo is fascinated with her own feet and she will stop in the middle of playing just to stare at them.

[pandora]

Chatting with a budgie, RIP little Snow.

[pandora]

 

Budgie conference! LOL

 

Okay, I will stop now.

[pandora]

 

Ok, I lied... a couple more cute ones. This is Odo snuggling with me.