Deconversion Video Part 6

[Denyoz]

Brilliant!

 

"Believing in Jesus changed my life, but that doesn't mean that Jesus is true. It only means that believing in Jesus changed my life."

 

How accurate your perception is, prplfox.

 

It's like being told you won 10 million dollars. It changes your life as long as you believe it and will make you go out and spend like crazy (using your credit card) until the day you decide to go pick up your money and realize that you have never won anything.

 

"I lost my Christian identity, against my will, because I pursued Christ in the metaphorical ends of the earth, and there was nothing there."

 

Man, you almost made me cry when I heard this sentence. It is exactly how I experienced it.

[BendyLine]

I shared this with an extended family member who is in campus ministry. He let it roll like water off a duck's back, saying that the speaker was "too much info feelings" which are "fleeting" (which is clearly why the speaker lost his faith!) and that "answers for all of the questions he posed are easy to find" (hence, the speaker should not have lost his faith and is obviously not trying hard enough).

I'd love for him to tell me what the answers are then, as they are so easy to find. I guess I must be stupid since I spent the first 25 or so years of my life looking and finding nothing.

 

I haven't watched this last part (yet), but all the others were brilliant. I can relate to these on so many levels. So kudos and hugs to you, sir, and fuck the haters.

[RipVanWinkle]

This last in your series is the only one I've read because I'm relatively new here. But it is absolutely beautiful. You must be a terrific teacher. I can't wait to read the others. Like you, I deconverted virtually against my will. After many years of trying to deal with all the serious questions Xtianity presented to me, I said to myself, "Wait a minute, there is no way God would object to my reading christian history and the literature of atheists and agostics if I am truly searching for Truth. A god that would object to a search for the truth would be highly suspicious, to say the least. So I began my research into the history of Xtianity and the aguments against the validity of christianity. What an eye opener! After that research, I didn;t see that I had any choice but to deconver if I wanted to keep my integrity. Anyway, thank you for your marvelous contribution.

 

You know, there is deep irony in the fact that Xtians are so extremely arrogant in their belief, and yet they really believe they are so very humble. bill

[Guest Pixie]

I think ex christian is full of geniuses. You are one of them Prplfox. I watched this the other day. I have watched the others. You are wonderful to share the journey of your life with the world. This has been so helpful for me. It feels so good to not feel alone in this.

Thank you very much.

[roadrunner]

I shared this with an extended family member who is in campus ministry. He let it roll like water off a duck's back, saying that the speaker was "too much info feelings" which are "fleeting" (which is clearly why the speaker lost his faith!) and that "answers for all of the questions he posed are easy to find" (hence, the speaker should not have lost his faith and is obviously not trying hard enough).

I'd love for him to tell me what the answers are then, as they are so easy to find. I guess I must be stupid since I spent the first 25 or so years of my life looking and finding nothing.

....

 

I bet he's he's only heard that there are answers. He doesn't know how stupid they sound. hearing them as a christian doesnt matter anyway. I think back when I was a christian the answers didn't matter. I had the proof i needed without stupid trivial answers to logic. it wasn't until the answers did matter when I sought them and found them to be lacking that the pillars began to crumble.

 

I think videos like this do more for new nonbelievers to show them they are not crazy and give them something to relate to. A christian would not totally understand since their mind is already made up no matter how lovingly you show them. Once you start to look into answers AND CARE what you find you're probably already gone and don't know it.

[Positivist]

I shared this with an extended family member who is in campus ministry. He let it roll like water off a duck's back, saying that the speaker was "too much info feelings" which are "fleeting" (which is clearly why the speaker lost his faith!) and that "answers for all of the questions he posed are easy to find" (hence, the speaker should not have lost his faith and is obviously not trying hard enough).

I'd love for him to tell me what the answers are then, as they are so easy to find. I guess I must be stupid since I spent the first 25 or so years of my life looking and finding nothing.

....

 

I bet he's he's only heard that there are answers. He doesn't know how stupid they sound. hearing them as a christian doesnt matter anyway. I think back when I was a christian the answers didn't matter. I had the proof i needed without stupid trivial answers to logic. it wasn't until the answers did matter when I sought them and found them to be lacking that the pillars began to crumble.

 

I think videos like this do more for new nonbelievers to show them they are not crazy and give them something to relate to. A christian would not totally understand since their mind is already made up no matter how lovingly you show them. Once you start to look into answers AND CARE what you find you're probably already gone and don't know it.

I agree. The so-called answers these people spew out go nowhere except crazyland.

 

Prplfox's videos were incredibly helpful to me, too, as I was coming out of a lifetime of faith. I am so thankful for each and everyone of you here!

[SRS]

Really enjoyed your video Eli. Very relatable and should be quite effective in "witnessing" to the younger crowd.

[Lerk]

Wow. Just... Wow.

 

I can't say that I identify with you in any particular way, because somehow as a Christian I never had my whole identity wrapped up in God, but I learned a lot from this video!

 

I need to go back and watch the rest.

 

The thing that stands out to me the most is that you're the same person in a lot of ways as you were before. The leader you were when you thought it came from God was all inside of you, and it's still there. I bet you're a great teacher!

[MichaelS]

What! After all of that, that was his response? I'm sorry, that is so frustrating. And I have to remember it's not his fault. That's what I remind myself when I confront street preachers who say the same sh-t that I used to say, and if I tell them that I used to say that sh-t, they don't believe me. I really meant what I said in the video about an idea hijacking our emotional architecture. The reactive, emotional side of me wants to get your extended family member on skype with me so he can tell me, unflinchingly, that the reason I don't enjoy the same relationship with Jesus that he has, the reason I am not a Christian, despite everything I did to try to remain a Christian, is because my sincerity wasn't sincere enough, my understanding wasn't smart enough, in other words, I did it wrong. I hate that the Jesus belief so badly wrecks people's brains that it makes them feel justified in making such a disgusting assertion to preserve their own self-integrity.

 

It goes back to what Evid3nc3 said about "mega-belief." This guy either has arguments that he regards as persuasive for Christianity, or strong mentors or parental figures that hold him in his views. My mom's conversion to Catholicism played a role in my deconversion, and I think that had she had stayed Protestant, I would have stayed Protestant longer too. Like it or not, it is our experiences, and our preprogrammed and reprogrammed response to them, that determines who we are and what we believe. If someone doesn't have enough common experiences with you, they aren't going to listen, period.

 

That having been said, it isn't the immediate response to an argument that's important, but how that argument plays out in someone's head over time. It took me seven years between the time when I realized that the Bible wasn't inerrant, until the time I stopped being a Christian. In that time I led Sunday School, went on a mission trip, and went to several conferences of the type you cite in the series. You've put yourself out there; just give it time, and if you end up preaching to the choir and encouraging people, there's nothing wrong with that (remember Christians do it all the time).

[DrNo]

This was my favorite of the series. Well done sir. The part that sticks out to me is that it is belief in Jesus that changes one's life, but that belief is not necessarily accurate. How many psychotic individuals believe that their hallucinations or delusions are real and behave accordingly?

[prplfox]

By the way, are you still in upstate NY? I'm right across the border in Kingston, ON. Alex Bay, beautiful in the summer, but not good for camping out in the winter! So glad that you're doing better now. Big hugs! Kristen

I live in Massachusetts now, and yes, Kingston/Alex Bay is nicer in summer . Big hugs back

[prplfox]

One of the things I found shocking when I first deconverted was how everything in the world just made so much more sense without believing in God. Figuring that out earlier would have really helped me navigate through my second decade.

True story. It really does make more sense when you're not trying to force pieces together that don't fit. There is a journal entry I put in part 5 that said "The best example I could set was to keep following God even when my life made no sense." It is very unfortunate how Christianity takes the best parts of you in the service of preserving itself, even at the expense of the person preserving it.

 

 

It amazes me the way you express and articulate thoughts and feelings. Your series brings to memory many feelings I’ve experienced and wished I could put into words. You have done an outstanding job. The music and artwork fits perfectly, and you tell your story beautifully. Thank you for creating this.

 

One part that I thought was a great analogy was when you mentioned someone receiving a phone call that their child had been kidnapped and how that would change their life, even if it weren’t true. It reminds me much of a story often told in the church I attended as a teenager about an atheist heckling a street preacher. His daughter was there, and told the atheist about how her dad used to be an abusive, drug addict, but now he’s a great father. Many christians I talk to seem to think that the results of their belief are proof that what they're believing in is true, but your analogy is a good example of how that is not the case.

 

Thanks so much. I wrestled for months with the words of this video. Like you and others said, some things about being an ex-Christian are very difficult to articulate.

 

So there is a mega church down the street from my brother's house. Every Sunday morning they wake him up with their ridiculous bass which aids in their mechanical emotional exploitation. I spontaneously went into the megachurch one evening, politely at first, but then couldn't ignore how awful they were and I told them how I felt about them... and they asked me to leave. But they tried using the "Jesus changed my life" line in that moment, and the only response I had was, well, what I put in the video.

 

 

 

I love your presentations of the psychology of religion in the last part, but what really touched me was the story of how the universe spent so much time throughout the generations creating us. That is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard in my life. If I ever have children and I finally have to have the religion discussion with them, I will tell them that message.

Thanks, don't forget it's true <3

 

Your balance of personal narrative and psychology, history, and science was really well done. It really illuminates how, not only you were operating, but how people in the world at large do too. It eliminates the barrier between people of different faiths. I really appreciate how difficult it is to develop that tone without overdoing it one way or another. Your treatment of your past was also very even-handed. Many stories are either accusatory or reactionary, but yours is brimming with compassion. You ask the questions that I would've had immediately as an xtian, and you delve into serious answers. It's so sturdy. On top of all that, you weave in lyrical prose without sacrificing the clarity of your message. I'm so impressed. I'm actually having a hard time not reacting to my past. Part of me feels like a victim, even if I know that I wasn't deliberately held back, so I appreciate your tone even more.

 

I have been afraid to post anything openly agnostic on fbook after my "coming out", but this needs to be shared. It's the story I didn't think existed as a Christian, and the kind that I desperately needed to hear as an ex.

 

Although highly unlikely, if I ever find myself in Northampton, I'm buying you a coffee.

Thanks for your words about the video. You really described my hopes in making it, so it means a lot. Did you share it on FB? I think (hope) it is more accessible for Christians than the crass but highly entertaining atheist memes. Promise about the coffee!!

[prplfox]

This last in your series is the only one I've read because I'm relatively new here. But it is absolutely beautiful. You must be a terrific teacher. I can't wait to read the others. Like you, I deconverted virtually against my will. After many years of trying to deal with all the serious questions Xtianity presented to me, I said to myself, "Wait a minute, there is no way God would object to my reading christian history and the literature of atheists and agostics if I am truly searching for Truth. A god that would object to a search for the truth would be highly suspicious, to say the least. So I began my research into the history of Xtianity and the aguments against the validity of christianity. What an eye opener! After that research, I didn;t see that I had any choice but to deconver if I wanted to keep my integrity. Anyway, thank you for your marvelous contribution.

 

You know, there is deep irony in the fact that Xtians are so extremely arrogant in their belief, and yet they really believe they are so very humble. bill

You make a very valid point about a God who wouldn't want you to seek truth in all places, including secular sources, as being suspicious. Christianity has deep irony at its foundation, certainly in the way you describe it, and in the way it presents itself as "seeking truth", and especially in the ways it self-insulates by preemptively accusing non-believers of doing the very things that believers do. You made me think of a video. Don't click it, it will make you throw up in your mouth, but it is a good example of Christians in action with deep irony. Seriously if you do click it, promise you won't watch more than 2 minutes.

 

 

 

The thing that stands out to me the most is that you're the same person in a lot of ways as you were before. The leader you were when you thought it came from God was all inside of you, and it's still there. I bet you're a great teacher!

I think this point is marred by the christian mindset. Street preachers, when I push them, say that without a belief in Jesus they would do horrible things. A facebook post I put out gave similar results. Christians believe they will be bad without God. It is an important mechanism of mind hijacking. Fortunately, as it turns out, ex-Christians are f**king awesome people. Take for example this forum

[mcdaddy]

Dammit prplfox, after saying "don't watch this video", of course I HAD TO WATCH IT!! Damn reverse psych. Such a cruel bitch! Anyway, yeah the irony is so ridiculously thick I could hardly listen to what they were saying after the initial minute or so. Because believing in invisible magic pixies is insanity...but believing in an invisible, Inaudible, imperceptible IN ANY WAY magic MALE pixie that created man out of fucking dirt is so obviously different. Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacepalm. Holy shit.