BuddhistCommunist Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Christians remain Christians dispite our constantly proving them wrong for some very simple reasons. Exchristian logic of the Bible: 1. Examine the whole bible, in the real world if there is a contradiction in the evidence it usually falls apart 2. Personal Experience gives us the insight into what is real or not. 3. according to historical eveidence, the Bible is one of the most historically inaccurate documents available. 4. There is no concrete evidence for even the founder of the religion itself. Christian Logic of the bible: 1.Examine the spiritual meaning of the bible, if it doesn't seem important in comparison with another part of the bible, ignore it. 2. Church learning, family learning, coincidental prayer answering and self-induced hallucenations are their experience 3. According to the bible God said it so it happened, which means scientific evidence pointing otherwise is incorrect. 4. Jesus gives them insight into the christian viewpoint of the world which makes him real. Well thats about it for the main reasons Peace, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Your post is good but I have to disagree on this point. "Personal" experience is why many people choose to stay in religions despite the facts. It's not even that. In my own experience, it's peer pressure. If 99% of people around them weren't Christian, they wouldn't be. It's only because they're afraid of losing their social networks that they still remain Christian. The vast majority of people I know don't take the Bible literally and they realize it's a fairy tale, but they remain in church because their friends and family are there. If something drastic happened to cause lots of people to convert overnight (like the Pope coming out and admitting it's all a scam or something else that's not very likely to happen), most people would deconvert too. Most Americans do whatever is popular. They want to be like everyone else and conform so they will fit in and have friends. Just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 If something drastic happened to cause lots of people to convert overnight (like the Pope coming out and admitting it's all a scam or something else that's not very likely to happen), most people would deconvert too. I dunno Amethyst... maybe in a few decades, but I think most people are probably still a little to "dependent" on religion to give it up cold turkey. If the pope were to appear on national television, and relate to the world that X-ianity was founded on a myth, and he decides to reveal long-hidden documents to prove it, I figure the documents would never show up, followed by a press conference that the pope had "taken ill" or something... I'm not saying this because I believe in any great conspiracy, but only that it would have such great repecussions, the organization as a whole would never let it happen. Protestants would call it all a big hoax, and it would probably be swept under the rug pretty quickly by the Catholics. If someone invented a time machine & proved everything was bogus, the fundy & evangelical groups wouldn't believe the evidence no matter how strong it was, and it might even trickle down to the more liberal groups, or perhaps stay cohesive, but merely change its direction from a literal Jesus to something a little more spiritual in nature. The gnostic gospels at Nag Hammadi should have told people that x-ianity used to be a LOT different in the beginning, and yet the greater portion of x-tians don't even know they exist; mostly because they LIKE staying insulated from something that might make them have to think for themselves. I think a lot of people would deconvert, but it certainly wouldn't be anything near a majority. It would probably take a few genrations before it went away to any majority degree. There is way too much control and power ingrained into religion, and a little too much dependence on it by its believers. I don't think Marx was too off the beaten path when he called it "the opiate of the masses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I dunno Amethyst... maybe in a few decades, but I think most people are probably still a little to "dependent" on religion to give it up cold turkey. If the pope were to appear on national television, and relate to the world that X-ianity was founded on a myth, and he decides to reveal long-hidden documents to prove it, I figure the documents would never show up, followed by a press conference that the pope had "taken ill" or something... Well, I agree that it's extremely unlikely. And even then, they might just use the excuse that the Pope has Alzheimer's or something. But if the pope were younger, etc., then it might happen. I think that UFOs are more likely to land first, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I think a lot of people would deconvert, but it certainly wouldn't be anything near a majority. It would probably take a few genrations before it went away to any majority degree. There is way too much control and power ingrained into religion, and a little too much dependence on it by its believers. I don't think Marx was too off the beaten path when he called it "the opiate of the masses." I agree for the most part with the exception that it will ever really diminish to a major degree any more than it already has. If we look at the rise of science and the Theory of Evolution, what has happened is not mass deconversion despite its general acceptance by the majority of the world, but you see an evolution of their faith in order to sustain its continuance. Faith is firstly self-preserving. People believe because they want to. Not because the evidence supports it. Those that look for credible evidence to support it are the ones who will become more and more marginalized because they appear as idiotic fanatics to the rest of an educated world. The whole Dover, PA thing shows as struggle within our society to deal with these fringe elements, meanwhile the whole of the Earth is looking in dismay that these sorts of issues are even happening, trying to be polite, and yet laughing in near derision at us. Yet many of those who laugh at the folly of the fundafools, have their own beliefs in a God, or some other divine principle that has evolved with the societies in which they live. Faiths that can remain flexible will survive through evolving and adapting, while the fundamentalist is rigid, inflexible, and brittle. Pig headedness and idiotic self-blindness are apparent and unappealing to the majority. The worst enemy a fundamentalist has is himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 2. Personal Experience gives us the insight into what is real or not. Your post is good but I have to disagree on this point. "Personal" experience is why many people choose to stay in religions despite the facts. I completely disagree "2. Church Learning, family learning, coincidental prayer answering and self induced hallucenations are their experience." The one you quoted was for the Exchristians and to ellaborate. Personal experience (in this instance) can be anything that gives you reson to believe the bible is false. Personal experience, not personal lies as with the christians. personal experience has to do with learning, personal lies has to do with deception there within lies the answer. its hard to tell the difference between the two, but hey lets hope were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 They'll just keep changing the "interpretation " of their bible so that it fits with new discoveries. After all they've had lots of practice. Like 2000 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 They'll just keep changing the "interpretation " of their bible so that it fits with new discoveries. After all they've had lots of practice. Like 2000 years or so. Absolutely agree with this. Remember when it wasn't "christian" to listen to rock music? Fundamentalism is like any other virus - it rapidly mutates to adjust to its environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Christians remain Christians dispite our constantly proving them wrong for some very simple reasons. Exchristian logic of the Bible: 1. Examine the whole bible, in the real world if there is a contradiction in the evidence it usually falls apart 2. Personal Experience gives us the insight into what is real or not. 3. according to historical eveidence, the Bible is one of the most historically inaccurate documents available. 4. There is no concrete evidence for even the founder of the religion itself. Christian Logic of the bible: 1.Examine the spiritual meaning of the bible, if it doesn't seem important in comparison with another part of the bible, ignore it. 2. Church learning, family learning, coincidental prayer answering and self-induced hallucenations are their experience 3. According to the bible God said it so it happened, which means scientific evidence pointing otherwise is incorrect. 4. Jesus gives them insight into the christian viewpoint of the world which makes him real. Well thats about it for the main reasons Peace, BC What about the people that have experienced real life situations that are divinely instituted, ordained and presummed to help someone grow spiritually and come a little closer to how God wants one to be? What about the people that werent strung out on drugs or about to go to a mental institution, yet found God and claims that He saved there life? JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Christians remain Christians dispite our constantly proving them wrong for some very simple reasons. Exchristian logic of the Bible: 1. Examine the whole bible, in the real world if there is a contradiction in the evidence it usually falls apart 2. Personal Experience gives us the insight into what is real or not. 3. according to historical eveidence, the Bible is one of the most historically inaccurate documents available. 4. There is no concrete evidence for even the founder of the religion itself. Christian Logic of the bible: 1.Examine the spiritual meaning of the bible, if it doesn't seem important in comparison with another part of the bible, ignore it. 2. Church learning, family learning, coincidental prayer answering and self-induced hallucenations are their experience 3. According to the bible God said it so it happened, which means scientific evidence pointing otherwise is incorrect. 4. Jesus gives them insight into the christian viewpoint of the world which makes him real. Well thats about it for the main reasons Peace, BC What about the people that have experienced real life situations that are divinely instituted, ordained and presummed to help someone grow spiritually and come a little closer to how God wants one to be? This would fall under Christian Logic of the Bible #2 What about the people that werent strung out on drugs or about to go to a mental institution, yet found God and claims that He saved there life? JK This means that you need to practice the ExChristian Logic of the Bible #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 What about the people that have experienced real life situations that are divinely instituted, ordained and presummed to help someone grow spiritually and come a little closer to how God wants one to be? What about the people that werent strung out on drugs or about to go to a mental institution, yet found God and claims that He saved there life? JK What exactly is this supposed to prove? There are millions of people who could say the same thing about Buddhism, Hinduism, shamanism, animism, Judaism, Islam, or a host of other religions. Why should your beliefs be oh-so-superior to theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 What about the people that have experienced real life situations that are divinely instituted, ordained and presummed to help someone grow spiritually and come a little closer to how God wants one to be? What about the people that werent strung out on drugs or about to go to a mental institution, yet found God and claims that He saved there life?JK So, let me get this straight. The existence of testimonies proves a religion to be true. In that case, every religion in the world is true. Since every religion in the world has reformed drunks, drug addicts, sex perverts, workaholics, wife abusers, mental patients, child beaters, gang members, murderers, and a myriad of other wasteoids who can testify to the power of a deity in changing their lives. Oh, I see me and G.O.D. think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Christians remain Christians dispite our constantly proving them wrong for some very simple reasons. Exchristian logic of the Bible: 1. Examine the whole bible, in the real world if there is a contradiction in the evidence it usually falls apart 2. Personal Experience gives us the insight into what is real or not. 3. according to historical eveidence, the Bible is one of the most historically inaccurate documents available. 4. There is no concrete evidence for even the founder of the religion itself. Christian Logic of the bible: 1.Examine the spiritual meaning of the bible, if it doesn't seem important in comparison with another part of the bible, ignore it. 2. Church learning, family learning, coincidental prayer answering and self-induced hallucenations are their experience 3. According to the bible God said it so it happened, which means scientific evidence pointing otherwise is incorrect. 4. Jesus gives them insight into the christian viewpoint of the world which makes him real. Well thats about it for the main reasons Peace, BC What about the people that have experienced real life situations that are divinely instituted, ordained and presummed to help someone grow spiritually and come a little closer to how God wants one to be? What about the people that werent strung out on drugs or about to go to a mental institution, yet found God and claims that He saved there life? JK Self induced Hallucenations and coincidental prayer answering... That used to be all the proof i needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdf99 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I think your list sums it up really well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "Thank God" my parents weren't Christians! Wow. Had a lot more respect for the beliefs before I started this quest 20 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts