Fweethawt Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 For those of you who don't know who Penn Jillette is, he's the big, talkative guy from the Penn & Teller show. There are Words of Wisdom in this speech. Can you find them? There Is No God by Penn Jillette Morning Edition, November 21, 2005 I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire? So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy. But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God." Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day. Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around. Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something. Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future. Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. FROM HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." He's awesome. I've been to their SHO page on Bullshit! and Teller sure has a lot to say there! Was his favorite actor HARPO? Anyone ever know him to speak? I don't remember the early appearances or if Penn ever said why Teller doesn't talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 He's awesome. I've been to their SHO page on Bullshit! and Teller sure has a lot to say there! Was his favorite actor HARPO? Anyone ever know him to speak? I don't remember the early appearances or if Penn ever said why Teller doesn't talk. Teller is an actor and has had speaking roles. One I can think of was a baseball movie (for HBO I thnk) called Long Gone with William Petersen (the CSI guy). Teller played one of the team owners. In the credits he had a first name, but I don't remember what it was (and don't feel like looking it up). Penn and Teller rock! Their show Bullshit is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I'm waiting for Season 3 to come out on DVD. I only got to see Season 2 on DVD, not sure if Season 1 is out. Did you see their underwater magic show? If they didn't expose their tricks, and other magician's, I'd have no clue how they do them. They're masters of illusion. I like their 3 of clubs card trick with the cemetary stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 For those of you who don't know who Penn Jillette is, he's the big, talkative guy from the Penn & Teller show. There are Words of Wisdom in this speech. Can you find them? There Is No God by Penn Jillette Morning Edition, November 21, 2005 I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire? It's a great essay and statment that he is making however, I can see a slight error in his thinking about what atheism really is in his opening sentences. I'm wondering if he doesn't consider himself an atheist by stating that he is "beyond" atheism? just what does that mean? how can someone who makes an opening statement: "there is no God" be anything but an atheist or a non-theist? he says that someone who is an atheist can't prove a negative? I'm assuming he is referring to the atheist who is unable to prove the non-existence of God? that is an impossiblity. you can't prove the non-existence of something that has never been proven to exist in the first place. for one thing, atheism isn't a negative position, it is a positive position and so is his title of his essay: "There is no God" in one sense he is saying he is an atheist but then he tries to deny or convince himself and his fans that he really isn't an atheist by stating he is beyond atheism by his "belief" there is no God. if that is what he is saying then he is truely an atheist whether he wants to admit it or not. he also says that not believing in God is easy? it can also be asserted that "believing" in god is easy, you just believe and not believing in God is easy also, you just believe there isn't. Believing requires faith that is unquestioned. absence of belief requires no faith; absence of belief in God does not take faith, it is because of reason. to believe in God one must suspend reason and replace it with unquestioned belief - faith. Just my little observation on his essay, I could be wrong. all in all, I like his thinking and concept of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I think he's confusing 'Atheist' with 'Agnostic' in the first paragraph. Re-phrasing it, 'I am beyond Agnosticism. I'm an atheist.' Makes perfect sense now, right? Otherwise... Spot on, man. Spot on. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutal Brian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 A fine essay from a fine man with an even finer TV show. I humbly await Season 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't think that Penn is agnostic. I think that he's an atheist. I think the point he was trying to make is that, unlike "other" atheists he is also a skeptic. Being a skeptic he actively applies those principles and methodologies when dealing with claims of god and the supernatural. The "other" atheists simply state there is no god and do nothing to prove or disprove their claim. Like fundies in a way ("'god'" is real and I don't have to do anything more than assert it to be right). So Penn is a skeptical actively researching atheist which has yet to find any evidence of a god and "other" atheists are lazy and just assert their "knowledge" of no god. Again this seems like the many "types" of xians (those fundies and lukewarms and so on). I have to agree with him if this is what he's saying. I'm agnostic. I *think* there might be a god of some sort. I choose to. So when faced with the arguments for and against god(s) I research it. I consider the evidence both ways and decide. Since there's no solid evidence against a god and there's no evidence for a specific (or any god really which is why I concede my belief is my desire only) then I can be agnostic. If someone (dis)proved god by a preponderance of the evidence, or just outright, then my convictions require me to re-evaluate everything according to the new evidence. If someone can make a landslide case for bible-god I'll be back on board. From the existing evidence (and the direction it appears that future evidence will likely take things) I don't worry about joining back up or going with any existing religion that I know of. mwc P.S. I think that P&T Bullshit is a great show. I shouldn't say this but my wife really used to look forward to it each week until she gave herself a bible lobotomy. Now she tries to avoid skeptics (unfortunately she's married to one and treats me like it's a religion or something when it's just about evidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What he's saying is that he's beyond weak atheism, which is just a 'prove me wrong' stance, to hard atheism which is a statement of belief that there is no god. Weak atheism and agnosticism go hand in hand. Take me for example. I don't believe in any gods. That makes me an atheist. But I'm not willing to state that there are no gods. I'm open to the possibility. That adds agnosticism to atheism, which makes me a weak atheist. So to summarize: Weak atheist: Believes in no god. Strong atheist: Believes there is no god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The word 'atheism' is not 'athe-ism', it's 'a-theism'. It simply means someone who is not a believer in gods. It's unfortunate that the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist' have become fuzzy in English. We've lost the word that means "someone who claims that knowledge of god is unattainable" (agnostic). But at any rate, all he is saying is that he is an atheist by the common understanding of the word; someone who believes there are no gods. I get annoyed by people who claim you can not prove the nonexistence of gods - as if the word "prove" takes on an absolute context when talking about god, but not in other contexts. We have no problem proving someone is guilty, or proving there are no viruses on a hard drive, yet if you use the word "prove" in regards to the existence of gods, it is expected to mean something different. If I say "there are no unicorns", I am not expected to eliminate all possibilities of the existence of unicorns, yet if I say "there are no gods", I am accused of having religious faith since I have not eliminated all possibility of the existence of gods, even though the word 'god' is generally undefined or defined in a contradictory way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future. Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. Is it me? But after reading his words of wisdom I get the sad feeling that he is trying to silently say "please, please let there be a God." For instance, "Believing there is no God... blah, blah" if you don't believe, you don't, just move on, no need to rationalise or justify... "gives me more room for belief... blah, blah"... oh please, maybe his God is the no-god, beyond-atheism belief-religion? Oh, he does whine on so...and his desperate pleads for "understanding". Good grief. Do you feel it? No? Must be me then. Merry Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 It's just you pug. He said No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future. People will be focusing on helping others instead of waiting for some sick twisted punishment, neglect or aid from the sky daddy. Happy Holidays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future. Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. Is it me? But after reading his words of wisdom I get the sad feeling that he is trying to silently say "please, please let there be a God." Well you always did hear whatever you wanted to hear pug. Cool Kwanza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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