Guest blue Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 hi all, haven't been here for a long time... but after getting another big dose of all the pro-christian propoganda on tv, i just had to visit and vent. it seems the top fundie here is daniel...i guess he's the new mad gerbil?... mad gerbil was the top fundie from the old forum right?....it's been so long, i'm not even sure anyways, here's something for the christians out there to think about. if you were born in the middle east, do you think you would be a christian? yes even though there are christians out there the chances of you being a muslim are pretty high. now if you were a muslim, what do you think you'd be saying about christianity? probably the exact thing the thinkers here are saying. now you'll probably say that somehow you'd convert and become christian right? but the question, would then be....how would you convert? considering you're surrounded by muslims...family, friends, school, government. would you somehow, 'just' convert after picking a bible? but that would be like you now 'just' converting to islam after reading the koran. now you couldn't see that happening could you? perhaps, god would somehow show you the light, and you'd convert. after all, once he shows you the light, there is definately no denying right? but then, why doesn't he show that light to everyone now? and don't say he has, and that people are just denying him. remember, it's THE light...once he shows/engulfs you with it, you're hooked oh yeah, just remembered, he couldn't show you the light because you have to have free will and choose him. now before you disregard the question and simply be smug that you're lucky enough to be christian, consider there are people that are born into a religion, with no hopes of truly knowing christianity, what of them? the point i'm trying to make is that a lot of people believe in their particular flavor of religion because they are conditioned to. and you christians are no different. you're just another true believer of (insert religion here)...now don't you feel special? one more thing, if you say that god willed you to be born in an environment where you would be christian. wouldn't that mean he is dabbling? and that would be a big contradiction to his obsessive need to remain anonymous btw, how does the christian god determine who gets to be born where and to whom. just doesn't seem fair that some babies are born into third world countrys, and others get to become Paris Hiltons of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 And off course people who have not heard about Jesus Christ are gonna burn on Hell, just like those people in the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 And off course people who have not heard about Jesus Christ are gonna burn on Hell, just like those people in the OT. Oh, of course. Don't forget the women and children, and all the people who are good people but follow another religion. There are no exceptions made for anyone in the bible. Any exceptions that are made are the result of Christians who can't fully accept the hell doctrine, so they make excuses for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 And off course people who have not heard about Jesus Christ are gonna burn on Hell, just like those people in the OT. I think blue's argument goes much deeper than the argument about those people who have never heard of Jesus. In the middle east, everyone has heard about Jesus. But, becoming a christian is just not an option. They are raised in an environment of Allah and Muhammed. That is their truth. They live and breathe it. Jesus is just a sideline, and he always will be. And no one could convince them otherwise. Just like no one could convince a christian to convert to Islam. Born into a Hindu culture, odds are you will be Hindu. Buddhist, same thing. I have a feeling that if all of us at Ex-C were born in the middle east, we would still be on a site like this for EX-Muslims. Thinking people of any flavor reject religious dogmatism sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Hey guys, I think its funny that whenever someone directs a post at Xtians we're usually the first to answer. I was born in an extreme christian enviroment, I became a Buddhist because I like it better. this question is also directed at us in a way, although the poster didn't mean it to. Everyone here pretty much started off as christians, Now we have a variety of beliefs and ideas. But, in reference to the question, We all got out of Christianity, but we are an enlightened few. The same would be for a child in a muslim counrty. When you leave a religion, a multitude of others open for you. The chance of a middle easterner becoming a christian is as unlikely as an American becoming a muslim. It also makes me angry that when we invaded Iraq, we sent hundreds of missionaries in afterwards. Christian Conspiracy? always.... peace, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 hehe, if I were born in a muslim country, I would be DEAD now. Hung for blasphemy... With all of the statements I've made about religion being "ridiculous", I know where I'd be now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blue Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 hey all, Mythra, you're right, my point was a little more than the common arguement of good people who have never heard of jesus, yet will still go to hell. i am trying to have the christian look at it on a more personal level, rather than they hearing about a good person going to hell and saying: "hey too bad for them, they had a chance to convert...good thing i'm a christian and i have my boarding pass" i'm hoping the common christian will look at the question through a more personal 'what if' scenario. if they simply disregard the 'what if' then there's no hope for them, like a horse with blinders they'll just go where they're pointed. but if they consider the 'what if'...even just consider...that might be the first little step they take towards thinking, perhaps even critical thinking. also, what about the question of who gets to be born where and to whom. i've thought about this at length, as a skeptic and believer. consider the person who is born to an unhappy poor life, but is christian. if i were to tally it up, that person would have a zero for crappy life and a plus one because they're going to heaven...this particular person would have a score of 0+1=1. now what about the person who is born into a happy life with great wealth so that they are never in need, and they happen to be christian and will go to heaven. they're score would be +1 for great life and +1 for going to heaven. 1+1=2 yeah i know the christian response, 'you can't compare silly human point systems with god's uncomprehensible heavenly thinking' and the christian will also argue, as long as they are in heaven the rest doesn't matter. but just think, do you in your heart really consider it fair? forget what your pastor/preacher/fellowship tells you.....do YOU think it's fair? like i said, i've thought about this on both sides. you could argue that a wealthy happy christian, has just as much hardship as one born in a 3rd world country. obviously not with food and shelter but with emotional and social pressures. but don't you think the starving christian would trade lives in a heart beat, and the wealthy christian would not want the trade. and if it's only one way, then it can't possibly be fair. one more thing, (i've argued this point to an apologist) if you argue that one cannot know how god thinks and that he has a plan...then you indirectyly wipe out free will. because a plan would mean predestined. woo, that's a lot of venting. oh yeah good point about ex-muslim Mythra, i was thinking that after i posted last night, i was watching BattleStar Galactica and thought, this site could just as well be ex-gods of Kobol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Welcome back bluemeister! Been quite a bit since we hadja on the Boards. Good to see your participating again. kevinL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blue Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 hey thanks nivek, well all that venting was because of all the 'thank god this...and god looking out for crap' that i've recently been seeing on tv. coincidence though, just these couple of days after i posted, i started seeing some shows that put religion in it's true light. the first was 'enterprise'...where a group from a race of aliens accuses another group (who believe the same creator, just another denomination i guess) of heresy and they end up with a big war that devestates their society. the second was 'angel'...where a higher being appears, and anyone that just lays eyes on her loses their own personality and becomes extremely 'loving' and 'happy'... these people do whatever she asks of them without question, even if it is an act of evil, because they are so infatuated with her....sound familiar? well, seeing these shows really is a welcome change, compared to almost every other show you see, where somebody says 'thank god' when a cop or fireman saves their life... err...shouldn't they be thanking the cop instead? anyways, i hope somebody produces a hollywood movie that shows how false christianity is to combat 'passion of the christ' i figure it should make some money at the box office, if nothing else because of the controversy it would create. just imagine all the christians in an uproar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 anyways, i hope somebody produces a hollywood movie that shows how false christianity is to combat 'passion of the christ' i figure it should make some money at the box office, if nothing else because of the controversy it would create. just imagine all the christians in an uproar.... They have: The Beast Movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blue Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 hey notblindedbytheblight thanks for the info, i just hope this is a serious movie, not a slasher-horror flick along the lines of 'evil dead' or 'prince of darkness' although, from the name of the title, i'm guessing it might be. in which case, it might be dismissed by the public as just another horror movie...i hope that's not the case. i'd like to see a movie made, along the lines passion of the christ... only difference being, the audience hears the daily journals of jesus where he's plotting and scheming to get people to follow him, all the while he's secretly laughing at his followers for being so gullible. anyways clever release date for 'thebeast'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 anyways, i hope somebody produces a hollywood movie that shows how false christianity is to combat 'passion of the christ' i figure it should make some money at the box office, if nothing else because of the controversy it would create. just imagine all the christians in an uproar.... They have: The Beast Movie The forum is also pretty good. Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 hey notblindedbytheblight thanks for the info, i just hope this is a serious movie, not a slasher-horror flick along the lines of 'evil dead' or 'prince of darkness' although, from the name of the title, i'm guessing it might be. in which case, it might be dismissed by the public as just another horror movie...i hope that's not the case. i'd like to see a movie made, along the lines passion of the christ... only difference being, the audience hears the daily journals of jesus where he's plotting and scheming to get people to follow him, all the while he's secretly laughing at his followers for being so gullible. anyways clever release date for 'thebeast'. On the same site, it seems that he has also done a documentary. It's now on DVD. The God Who Wasn't There Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 On the same site, it seems that he has also done a documentary. It's now on DVD. The God Who Wasn't There I saw that but it says that it played "around the world." ???? I've never even heard about it, perhaps it means "around the world" except the USA?? That could be because I hadn't heard of it either. Maybe it's one of those that don't make the big theatres or they refused to show it. Maybe in NYC or something, but here in Oklahoma...no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blue Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 still no christian response!....not surprised. could be they just thought the question (like many other valid questions on this forum) was too trivial for them, and they rather sit back and be smug about themselves. or maybe...they're silent because they're starting to question themselves. one thing i must admit about them though, is that they're fantastic at dodging. i remember asking a christian, 'how do they know the quran is not true' they responded by saying 'we're not saying that it's not true...we're just saying blah blah blah' this happend once in florida when some christian drones approached me on the street and once in canada, when i agreed with a christian friend that i would go listen to what their apologist had to say. (i really just wanted to debate ) anyways, do all christians have the same quick response pamphlet or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 i remember asking a christian, 'how do they know the quran is not true' they responded by saying 'we're not saying that it's not true...we're just saying blah blah blah' Blue, if you get a chance, please tell us more about that 'blah blah blah', what did they say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blue Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 i don't remember what the "blah, blah, blahs" were exactly... the moment they said 'we're not saying they're wrong'...i tune out if they said something along the lines of 'well the quran is what some people believe and.....' then i might have continued the discussion but instead, what they said was something along the lines of how the bible is right. yet at the same time, they're trying to take the stance of being open minded. by stating they're not saying the quran is wrong...how can that be? if they're right, then everyone else is wrong...but of course they don't want to come off saying that...at least not right off the bat! they're tactics are usually to become buddies with you, and how they care about your situation in life... then when they think you'll listen, they tell you how the world really works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thanks Blue. I think I had similar experience with a Mormon. I was merely asking the following question as a seeking inquirer, "Joseph Smith had experienced Jesus appeared to him conveying messages and the Book of Mormon; Muhammed had the angel Gabriel appeared to him conveying the Quran. Tell me what is the difference in Muhammed's and Joseph Smith's experience then?" The Mormon, "It seems that you are a bit confused..." Not answering apologetic question and turning around the table. They were trained in the classrooms on the steps to approach questions asked by the inquirer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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