Mr. Neil Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Those of you familiar with Way Of The Bastard Master will recognize Ray Comfort's atheist test. The one where he uses the Ten Commandments to make hasty generalizations. "Have you ever lied? Then you are a liar. Have you ever stolen anything? Then you're a thief." But the one that always slays me is when he gets to "Thou shalt not kill". He says, "Have ever ever killed anyone? The Bible says that if you hate someone, you're a murderer." Indeed he's correct. That's part of the Sermon on the Mount from Matthew 5:21-22. It also does the same thing with adultery. Basically, if you think about sinning, then you're a sinner. The New Testament writers have made it impossible not to sin, and then they give you the "good news" of salvation. It occurs to me that Christian theology falls under what I call "infomercial logic", where they go out of their way to invent a problem and then fix it. Anyway, this had me thinking that if murder starts in the heart, and that you are already a murderer if you hate someone, then shouldn't a nice Kriss-tee-en (that's how Comfort says "Christian") Nation like the United States start arresting all the people with hate in their hearts? The Christian will likely answer by stating that hating someone is obviously not the same as literally killing someone as far as offenses go, but where are they getting that? Does the Bible actually differentiate between the sins? The Old Testament was pretty much pro-capital punishment on every crime, including theft, lying, and adultery. Heck, you had to stone a woman if there was no evidence of virginity on the bed the following morning. (So much for absence of evidence not being evidence of absence. God apparently disagrees.) Basically, all sins were equally severe. But now that we're under the "new law" (so much for "for ever"), it seems that we're now expected to believe that there's a difference in severity between the laws. Sure, the Christians have salvation now as opposed to just stoning sinners, but why then are some sins suddenly more severe than others? Why only lock up a thief but put to death the murderer? Why is adultery not even a crime at all? If this is a Christian nation, why aren't we just give all sinners the same punishment? According to Mr. Comfort, if you steal something, the value of what is stolen is irrelevent, because you've sinned in he eyes of God. Here we see the black-and-white thinking of Christianity in it's full glory, and that black-and-white thinking carries over to all of the sins, because unless you have salvation, every single one of them will grant you the same speedy trip to Hell. So in the eyes of God, a sin is a sin. So what's with these secular laws? How do Christians justify this? Is this a Christian nation or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Anyway, this had me thinking that if murder starts in the heart, and that you are already a murderer if you hate someone, then shouldn't a nice Kriss-tee-en (that's how Comfort says "Christian") Nation like the United States start arresting all the people with hate in their hearts? My Brother, surely you must realize that only God knows a person's Heart . Is this a Christian nation or not? Nope! If it were, 95% of our housing would be prisons and dungeons. The other 5% would be churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Mr. Neil, First, Jesus said that you have to 'hate your brother without cause' to be guilty of murder. He didn't specify the cause. Just adding fuel to the fire. Also, I have never heard of Ray Comfort, but I heard the same arguments on TBN from that guy that used to be on that show "Growing Pains", where he made his fame and fortune playing a character that always lied. As for the stoning of women, I've done it myself several times, but then I just lost interest because they were too easy. And no, this isn't a Christian Nation. Never has been. I understand that your question may be rhetorical, though. Our laws here in the USA are somewhat based on the Bible, but also on Blackstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 Also, I have never heard of Ray Comfort, but I heard the same arguments on TBN from that guy that used to be on that show "Growing Pains", where he made his fame and fortune playing a character that always lied.Actually, that's it!That program is Way Of The Master. Kirk Cameron is Ray Comfort's sock puppet. If you ever seen Kirk Cameron doing one of those programs with a British-sounding guy, that's Ray Comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 First, Jesus said that you have to 'hate your brother without cause' to be guilty of murder. He didn't specify the cause. Just adding fuel to the fire. Does this mean that when Jesus said to hate your mother, father, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters and whatever else he threw in there, that by following that command, we wouldn't be guilty of murder? Or would his command be considered the "cause" of our hatred, therebye keeping us free and clear of the murder charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 Ah, the incoherency of Christianity. You don't even know if you're sinning or not! Well, you just have to accept Jesus to be on the safe side! I'm feelin' the stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Ah Ha! So that's Ray comfort. Yeah, I've seen those shows a few times. In my fundie days I would have nodded in agreement with the 'Kirk Cameron interviews The Sinner On The Street' parts. Now they just look like a study in logical fallacies. And I find it all quite funny. Fwee, I'm not sure. I don't have my Bible handy, but let's just forget that command to hate your family part, can we? I'm sure that Jesus didn't mean that dogmatically. Let's just use the command from the Gospel of John, that we love one another. Then we can all follow Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Fwee, I'm not sure. I don't have my Bible handy, but let's just forget that command to hate your family part, can we? I'm sure that Jesus didn't mean that dogmatically. Let's just use the command from the Gospel of John, that we love one another. Then we can all follow Jesus. I want the name and address of your crack supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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