bornagainathiest Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://www.rssd.esa.int/index.php?project=PLANCK Last week I went to talk at the hq of my local astronomy club, given by an astrophysicist involved in a global network of robotic telescopes. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotic_telescope ) Mine was the last question of the evening and I asked him what he hoped for from the Planck satellite data, to be released on 21 March, in Paris. He said that some of his colleagues (who will be at the conference) were walking around with VERY big smiles on their faces... but they were NOT allowed to divulge what they knew until that day. He added that we should expect this to make headline news around the world. Now you know as much as me! Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I hope it's dark matter. That would be so kewl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Aliens! They found aliens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Aw, BAA, why would you go and do that to me? Why? Now that's all I'm going to be thinking about until March 21st! Totally not cool, man. Totally not cool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Is there something they're EXPECTING to find from the data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted February 28, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2013 Oh what a tease you are BAA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I'm sure it's a pattern of stars or even galaxies that reads "fuck jebus" or "forget xmas, Joseph confessed to everything" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Okay... I read it and... I don't get it. I looked up 'anisotropies'.. and I still don't get it. This imaging system is looking at the cosmic microwave background radiation, right? Can someone explain to me how anisotropies would apply to this (and exactly what that is?) I suspect they have found (a pattern of and pointing to) dark matter - but that's a highly uneducated guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Guys! Guys! Don't shoot the messenger... alright? You'll notice that the astrophysicist didn't actually answer my question about the CMB. That's not his field. He specializes in data-reduction algorithms, data-sharing programs and telescope pointing software. He's not a theoretical astrophysicist, so my question was a long shot. (I knew this, but decide to go for broke.) Anyway, kudos to him for not stealing anyone else's thunder. What are they expecting to find in the data, McD? Well, Bhim (our newly-arrived astrophysicist ex-Christian) is probably the best member to ask... but I'll take a shot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background On this page, I'd recommend starting by looking at the first three paragraphs, under the heading, 'Relationship to the Big Bang'. That should give you a good, basic grounding as to why cosmologists are so keen to look closely at the CMB. Next, take a look at the section, 'Primary anisotropy' and the prettily-colored graph, on the right. In a nutshell, this graph is a simple way of displaying a lot of complex data in an easy-to-understand format. The peaks and troughs can be thought of as representating sound waves (acoustic oscillations) sloshing back and forth thru the fireball (plasma) the very young universe. The third paragraph down merits attention. "The peaks contain interesting physical signatures. The angular scale of the first peak determines the curvature of the universe." If you click on the diagram, you'll see that Planck's immediate predecessor, the WMAP satellite gave us a nice set of data points for the first and second peaks. So we know know the curvature of the universe, to a high degree of precision. But look at what happens to the data points when we get past the second peak! Even with ground-based instruments like Acbar, Boomerang, CBI and VSA, the data points have huge error bars associated with them. This means that the true shapes and heights of the third, fourth and fifth peaks aren't properly known or understood. The wiggly line of the CMB power spectrum is largely a guess, after the second peak and it's the third peak that the scientists really want to get a handle on. Why? Because knowing that information helps us understand the density of dark matter across the universe. (So, it could well be the signature of dark matter that's in the Planck data, MyMistake! ) What I'm hoping for is that they've found evidence of Polarization in the CMB radiation. If so, then it's a slam-dunk for this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation Then it'll just be a case of finding out which model of Cosmic Inflation is the right one. ALL models mean big trouble for Christianity, but Past-Eternal Inflation kills the idea of a Creator stone dead. An eternally-existing Multiverse (of which our universe is a microscopically-small part) requires no creator. Game over! Thanks, BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Meh. Morontheists deny so many facts every day, why would one more fact to deny break their collective backs? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Meh. Morontheists deny so many facts every day, why would one more fact to deny break their collective backs? True. And for many (Creationists), it'll make no difference at all. But there's another kind of Christian who'll be severely challenged by this... the Theistic Evolutionist. They're the ones who claim that science and Christianity can live in perfect accord. They claim that nothing science can discover will ever disprove God. William Lane Craig is the standard-bearer for this kind of well-read and intelligent Christian. If Past-Eternal Inflation is the model favored by the data, that'll mean the Big Bang was only a local event that gave rise to our 'pocket' universe. Meanwhile, the greater Multiverse will always have existed and always will. No Creator needed, Mister Craig. No way to blend science with the book of Genesis. No way to apply the Kalam Cosmological Argument. BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted March 1, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2013 Boo-Yah.....weh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Heh, IDers and Creationists will find a way to excuse anything to their own satisfaction. Whatever scientists have discovered and will uncover on March 21, I am interested in it for the knowledge. Or at least a watered down version narrated by Morgan Freeman so that I can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Okay... I read it and... I don't get it. I looked up 'anisotropies'.. and I still don't get it. This imaging system is looking at the cosmic microwave background radiation, right? Can someone explain to me how anisotropies would apply to this (and exactly what that is?) I suspect they have found (a pattern of and pointing to) dark matter - but that's a highly uneducated guess. Hi Ravenstar. This is actually a different problem than the dark matter question. Anisotropy refers to non-uniformity in the cosmic microwave background. The CMB itself is a relic of what we call the epoch of recombination, which occured some 300,000 years after the Big Bang when nuclei combined with electrons (due to the universe's cooling), thus causing the universe to become transparent to radiation. Basically the idea is that since nature favors symmetry, we expect the Big Bang to preserve the uniformity of the universe, and the CMB should look the same in every direction (that's what "isotropy" means). Theories of the early universe suggest that this uniformity was broken in various ways, causing the universe to exist as it does today. Breaking of the universe's symmetry would also caus anistropy in the CMB. The CMB indeed doesn't look quite the same in every direction (it's very close, though!), and this anisotropy confirms theoretical models. The WMAP experiment confirmed this with its measurements of CMB anisotropy, and allowed us to calculate the age of the universe to within a few hundred million years. It looks like this Planck experiment is a next generation microwave experiment designed to conduct even better measurements of the CMB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Thank you Bhim, The way I understand the CMB is that there are tiny fluctuations in the thermal register.. hence not isotrophic, which were the seeds for gravity to take hold and begin to pull the matter/energy together to form the early universe.. am I correct? So what you are saying is that this new 'discovery' could support the assertion that the early universe could be anistrophic. Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Meh. Morontheists deny so many facts every day, why would one more fact to deny break their collective backs? True. And for many (Creationists), it'll make no difference at all. But there's another kind of Christian who'll be severely challenged by this... the Theistic Evolutionist. They're the ones who claim that science and Christianity can live in perfect accord. They claim that nothing science can discover will ever disprove God. William Lane Craig is the standard-bearer for this kind of well-read and intelligent Christian. If Past-Eternal Inflation is the model favored by the data, that'll mean the Big Bang was only a local event that gave rise to our 'pocket' universe. Meanwhile, the greater Multiverse will always have existed and always will. No Creator needed, Mister Craig. No way to blend science with the book of Genesis. No way to apply the Kalam Cosmological Argument. BAA. Ohhh!! This is exciting!! I never even thought about the possibility of the Big Bang being a local event. If this proves true, maybe it'll inspire people to take care of the planet better for future generations? Doubt it, though. Jesus is coming to bring us to Second Earth after all This is exciting, though, I check the news daily @ work (only thing not blocked). I will be keeping an eye out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted March 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2013 So what's the deal with the vernal equinox release date? Just trying to keep to traditional seasonal celebration themes or what? In any case I guess it could put a damper on Easter this year for those like WLC. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Thanks for posting this BAA. Waiting impatiently........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thank you Bhim, The way I understand the CMB is that there are tiny fluctuations in the thermal register.. hence not isotrophic, which were the seeds for gravity to take hold and begin to pull the matter/energy together to form the early universe.. am I correct? So what you are saying is that this new 'discovery' could support the assertion that the early universe could be anistrophic. Correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps you could elaborate what you mean by "thermal register?" What i can say is that the CMB is a microwave radiation field left over from the decoupling of radiation and matter. Again, this is a fancy way of saying that after the universe cooled to such a point where nuclei and electrons formed atoms, photons were able to traverse the universe freely. These photons are what we see as the cosmic microwave background (which happens to form the best blackbody spectrum in nature). Now we would expect nature to preserve symmetry, resulting in a purely isotropic CMB. But the anisotropies can be explained by various cosmological models including the theory of inflation (rapid expansion in the early universe accompanied by breaking of certain symmetries in particle interactions). The issue of gravity is a somewhat separate problem. Many-body simulations show that with a reasonable assumption regarding the distribution of matter in the early universe, filament structures will coalesce and eventually create galaxies. This is one reason the universe contains galaxies in the first place as opposed to uniformly distributed dust (which would make for a very boring universe!). One important point here: the anisotropy of the universe has already been verified by the WMAP experiment. From what I'm reading on the Planck experiment, this detector will provide better measurements of the CMB anisotropy, and thus better constrain the age of the universe. So what's the deal with the vernal equinox release date? Just trying to keep to traditional seasonal celebration themes or what? In any case I guess it could put a damper on Easter this year for those like WLC. lol Haha, very interesting observation. The celebration of Jesus' alleged (and I'd say false) resurrection this year is set for March 31st. How fortuitous that in advance of this date we are gathering more evidence which asserts that the Bible's claim of a 6,000 year old universe is false. Which is not to suggest that the Biblical account hasn't been satisfactorily falsified already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted March 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2013 ^ I couldn't miss it. The secular empire strikes back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-096 Thanks, BAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/universe-age-planck-space-probe-date-big-bang_n_2922818.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Cool. This quote from the article really grabbed my attention: At the press conference, Efstathiou said the pioneers of inflation theory should start thinking about their own Nobel prizes. Two of those theorists – Paul Steinhardt of Princeton and Andreas Albrecht of University of California Davis – said before the announcement that they were sort of hoping that their inflation theory would not be bolstered. That's because taking inflation a step further leads to a sticky situation: An infinite number of universes. This is what I love about real scientists doing real science. They have no problem admitting when their own theories lead to uncomfortable conclusions or answers that they don't necessarily like, but they know they have to go where the evidence leads them, instead of forcing evidence to fit some preconceived notion of what they think the universe should be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted March 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2013 80 million year older than previously thought universe and an Infinite number of universes beyond our own, take that YECists!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 why are infinite universes a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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