'universal Reconciliation'-The Only 'gospel' With Actual Good News!

[BlackCat]

The only reason I lasted so long as a struggling Christian (the last 4 or 5 years) was because I came across the teaching that everyone (even Satan and the demons) would be saved eventually- not one lost sheep at all.  Wow, this was an appealing idea. (I hadn't believed in a literal hell since I was 15 and had studied with the JWs, so I had believed in annihilation for the 'wicked'.)  When I first came across the teaching of universal salvation or universal reconciliation, I thought how ridiculous it sounded- it was such a foreign idea, but then as I studied its claims, I could see it seemed to have a strong case to be made for it and I realised this was indeed the good news I'd never experienced with any other 'brand' of Christianity I had come across.  The typical Christian spiel might go something like this: 'If you acknowledge Jesus as your saviour and lord and repent of your sins, you will be brought back to life at a future time and live forever with Him in paradise' .  If you enquired of your loved ones who had died without having accepted Jesus, there would seem to be no such hope for them- they'd missed the boat, and so your good fortune would be soured and spoiled by knowing that your loved ones could not be saved too- so not really that good a news.    Here's an example of UR (universal reconciliation) as presented by Martin Zender, who has some zany theology but as far as UR is concerned, he presents its case very well in this video:

 

 

UR kept my near dead faith limping along for  a few more years.  I figured it was a win-win situation.  If UR was right, we'd all be ok, if it was wrong I'd neve know, as I'd be annihilated or rather I'd be dead.  Eventually, though, the boost it had given to my fragile faith, finally faded, as I realised that God was most probably not real and no matter how much I wanted this UR God to be real, He most probably wasn't.  It seems that UR is becoming very popular within mainstream Christianity e.g Rob Bell's book 'Love Wins' which I enjoyed when it came out.  My former baptist minister is a closet URist, as during one of my wobbles when I hadn't been to church for a while and he popped by to check on me, he brought a book he thought might help: 'Love Wins' which made me chuckle......

 

[megasamurai]

Doesn't this actually contradict the Bible itself? Revelation spells out that non-Christians will burn forever. I've heard many people say that "God is not willing that any should perish" meaning that he sends people to hell, but doesn't want to. What the hell? If you don't want to send people to hell, why do it?

 

Anyway, back on topic. Universal Reconciliation is a small minority belief. Eternal torment is pretty explicitly mentioned. There's a drinking game to take a shot everytime eternal torture is mentioned in the gospels. I wouldn't recommend playing that game if you value your life.

[ThePez]

the bible contradicts the bible all the time.

[boftx]

I'm not sure whether he should share whatever he's on or hope he doesn't.

[wanderinstar]

I so wanted to believe this as a young Christian with many non-christian friends but on further study found that the bible did not back it up so this was just wishful thinking at work. Most damming is the fact that it renders Jesus' sacrifice useless and preaching the gospel a waste of time. I only wish I had taken my thinking one step further back then and challenged the book that claimed such a cruel god existed rather than retreat into ' god is loving and just, he will judge each person fairly' crap...

[LifeCycle]

Martin Zender and universal reconciliation were the final theologies I could live with before my complete deconversion from the faith altogether. Two of his books I bought and enjoyed reading, one about "hell" and the other about the myth of free will.

[Guest r3alchild]

In the words of marge simpson

 

"Homer, you know I always try to put the best face on everything, but there's noface on that damn bean"

 

Like theres no face on christianity no matter how much you try to picture one.

[BlackCat]

Some interesting comments guys.  Thanks. 

 

I studied it very thoroughly for a couple of years and it is the only theology that satisfies the soul -until you realise it's just a fantastical fairy story..............

[Endemoniada]

I used to believe this too, before I became an atheist. Now I have my doubts about whether this is really a kinder theology or not. Depending on your definition of heaven, UR could actually be hell. God's still a dick for letting people suffer and die without apparently lifting a finger to help them. For letting nutjobs burn 'witches' and heretics and righteously beat, torture, and kill those who didn't believe in their particular theology and not coming down and saying "Maybe you guys shouldn't do that". Who'd want to live with a guy like that for all eternity? I'd much rather ride that hell-bound train till the end of my days. I hear the conductor's actually a pretty cool guy, despite what certain parties have said about him. 

[pandora]

Throughout history, religions have had to change or die.   I would rather see Christianity completely die, but I'll take this instead I suppose.   It won't happen anytime soon, but it is very possible that this is the new face of Christianity.   I have several friends on fb who were rather conservative when they were young but have now embraced a more liberal form of Christianity advocating these beliefs.  Some of them are even middle age, but most are younger (20s and 30s).   It is a way to dispel the cognitive dissonance and if it works for them, whatevs man.  The most despicable and bigoted forms of Christianity seem to be dying all over the world (with several exceptions of course).   Slowly, I believe that a more moderate form of Christianity will replace what most of struggled to leave,   The vocal right-wing orthodox groups will lose support, and eventually their power... their own tendency to shout their bigotry from the rooftops will be the death of them.

[Guest r3alchild]

 

Throughout history, religions have had to change or die. I would rather see Christianity completely die, but I'll take this instead I suppose. It won't happen anytime soon, but it is very possible that this is the new face of Christianity. I have several friends on fb who were rather conservative when they were young but have now embraced a more liberal form of Christianity advocating these beliefs. Some of them are even middle age, but most are younger (20s and 30s). It is a way to dispel the cognitive dissonance and if it works for them, whatevs man. The most despicable and bigoted forms of Christianity seem to be dying all over the world (with several exceptions of course). Slowly, I believe that a more moderate form of Christianity will replace what most of struggled to leave, The vocal right-wing orthodox groups will lose support, and eventually their power... their own tendency to shout their bigotry from the rooftops will be the death of them.

Moderate christianity? So long as theres the bible to believe in, christianity will never be moderate. Think about all the stuff you have to get rid of from the bible for it to be moderate. To name a few, jesus sacrifice ( scape goating ) homosexuality, fornication, hell, fear of god, forced to love god and other people, sexual supression, one way to god, babies are born in sin. Anyway you would have to get rid of all that shit and more, but if you did it would not be christianity.

[florduh]

IOW, the only way to make Christianity palatable is to believe something contrary and still call it Christianity.

[RankStranger]

IOW, the only way to make Christianity palatable is to believe something contrary and still call it Christianity.

 

That's already happened several times.  What modern fundagelicals believe is quite contrary to what other christians in other times and places have believed.

[Guest end3]

Pardon me...didn't read the OP, but universal reconciliation makes me think of the universe collapsing back on itself into a sub-speck. 

[BlackCat]

Pardon me...didn't read the OP, but universal reconciliation makes me think of the universe collapsing back on itself into a sub-speck. 

 

Hmm that's interesting.   If you read the OP and watch the video, you'll see it means something very different.

[BlackCat]

IOW, the only way to make Christianity palatable is to believe something contrary and still call it Christianity.

 

Yes.    But contrary to what?  Contrary to how Christianity is interpreted today or how it was interpreted 2000 years ago?  UR was supposedly a very popular belief in the early church.

[BlackCat]

 

IOW, the only way to make Christianity palatable is to believe something contrary and still call it Christianity.

 

That's already happened several times.  What modern fundagelicals believe is quite contrary to what other christians in other times and places have believed.

 

Yes. 

[megasamurai]

What about the apocrapha? What are the rejected books' stances on salvation? It seems the books with fire and brimstone were canonized, but what did the books that were thrown out say?

[Guest r3alchild]

 

What about the apocrapha? What are the rejected books' stances on salvation? It seems the books with fire and brimstone were canonized, but what did the books that were thrown out say?

The books that were thrown out said that a princess named peach was kidnapped by the devil bowser, but god had a plain and sent his only son named mario to rescue her and die many lifes to save her. Now all those who accept marios sacrifice for the princess will spend all eternity with him in super mario world collecting gold coins and mushrooms, but for all those who do not accept marios sacrifice for the princess, will spend all eternity in lava world with bowser.

[Joshpantera]

 

IOW, the only way to make Christianity palatable is to believe something contrary and still call it Christianity.

 

Yes.    But contrary to what?  Contrary to how Christianity is interpreted today or how it was interpreted 2000 years ago?  UR was supposedly a very popular belief in the early church.

Any evidence to share that would support this claim BC? 

 

I