Odintim's Deconversion

[odintim]

Saved ! ! !

 

I suppose there isn't anything unique about my life or deconversion amongst the masses of people that have already told their story. Yet, I discovered this forum and somehow felt the need to add to the fold. Perhaps there are some points that may seem personal, however in order for me to properly “tell all”, I feel as if I need to point out some specific periods, emotions and thoughts along the way. A warning before the read.

 

Many people ask me what the ONE thing was that made me become an atheist. I used to be surprised by this question and assumption that it was a single revelation or event that caused my deconversion. There was no single event, revelation or “thing” that caused me to turn away from Christianity or religion in general. The truth is, it was a life long process that I had been struggling with since childhood, and in some forms, even today. I suspect it was the same amongst many of you here.

 

I had been raised by a strong Baptist family, with my father – being a Baptist minister - somewhat on the strict side with bringing up his family religiously. He did not consider himself religious, as that was a title on usually attributed to Catholics or other religions outside of his own. He thought himself to have a strong spiritual connection with God; not a religious one. Everything “true Christians” did was through prayer an revelation by deep study of the bible God's Word. My father's own background included influence from that of the Nazarenes and Pentecostal denominations.

 

I eventually was led by my parents and Sunday school teacher to become saved; not because I felt the Holy Spirit moving through me (I was only eight), but because it was just the thing to do and somewhat “expected” by the son of a preacher. My Sunday school teacher and father met with me in a small room in the back of the church, praying emotional prayers, and I could not help but get caught up in the moment. I generally felt as if I was being covered in the love of Christ and that he was entering my heart.

 

The next several years were uneventful, but I always had doubts and hundreds of questions in the back of my mind; after all, an inquiring mind is a “dangerous” thing. However, each time I asked questions, I was always brushed away as a babe in Christ, meaning I was inexperienced and could not possibly understand the answers or God's way. My questions were honest ones, and I knew the bible better than most children my age – thanks and no thanks to my father, preacher and apologist extrordinaire.

 

The answers I received from pastors or elders were - God just found a way - or - That is just the supernatural way in which our Lord just transcends the mysterious or impossible. This was never sufficient for me. Sure, I believed strongly in Jesus Christ and God, but I also had an extremely inquisitive and science-hungry mind, which weak answers were not always going to satisfy. Because my own father had such popular standings in the protestants' ranks, I often got the opportunity to meet such people such as Jerry Fallwell, Billy Graham, James Dobson and others. When I was allowed – more like when my father wasn't looking – I took aside these icons and asked them the difficult questions, and yet, deep down, I was still not satisfied with the answers I received.

 

My teen years were in turmoil, as I became tempted by peer pressures, drugs and alcohol. I also became very interested in the occult and other dark religions (an oxymoron?), but those were not satisfactory, either. Besides this, Christianity and other religions simply could not answer the questions I had about the natural world and cosmos, despite the fact there were a few matters that even science could not answer.

 

After nearly breaking and committing myself to a depression clinic (not simply due to the religion question), I spent the next several months finding God and Christianity again. I made close Christian friends and they helped me see the light again, and I attended revivals, causing me to recommit my life to Christ. In truth, I was just attempting to fill the void with something that would never satisfy me. I felt as if I had a purpose once again, and through some seminars and guidance, I decided to attend Bryan College; a small irony I did not yet see. I went to college with a fresh outlook and strong determination to dedicate my life to God through the music ministry and preaching God's word. Yes, I thoroughly intended to become a Baptist minister. Dorm and college life amongst other Christians created a kind of utopia-like community. There was always someone to pray with and interpret issues or scriptures according to my life. The real world was there, but it did not readily touch us as easily as the rest of the world.

 

The fellowship was something that I'd never experienced in my church, school or neighborhood before. It was a euphoric high that of which I cannot describe unless you yourselves have attended a close-knit Christian college / university. Everyone had a friend or groups of friends that you depended on to be “accountable” to – meaning they secretly knew your sins, worries and doubts, and would specifically pray for and with on those things. I honestly think that my accountability partner knows more about me than my own parents or wife does – or he at least DID.

 

I even became involved in a Christian rock band that was being set up for contract deals and touring. Singing about God's love and performing with my 4 best friends only added to the euphoric high I'd already been on. These moments were probably the highest emotional times of my life.

 

They, though I did not know it at that time, were to be short lived.

 

Changing Lanes

 

Most of my 1st semester was a wondrous blur. I made many friends of all sorts, but something about our different denominations had been disturbing me. We all had varied beliefs about salvation, sins and Hell or Heaven. A few of my friends even believed Jesus commanded Christians that only through repetitive baptism and salvation could one gain access to eternity in the kingdom of God, for each sin. The bible supported ALL of our beliefs, of course, depending on your denomination's interpretation. I did wonder, in the back reaches of my mind, how could we all be right but all so different, yet receive the same answers and outcome? Did this mean that I or other Christians may burn in Hell for not believing the same thing? How could the Lord allow this sort of confusion within his own ranks?

 

Then during June of '95, my band mates and I decided to go on a trip to Colorado. I changed my mind at the last moment to attend a ministry workshop. On a quick flight a few days later, my friends and some others went down in a plane outside Pueblo. I was devastated, crushed and confused. I'd certainly believed that these 4 men and the music we created was God's calling on my life to minister to the people through music. What was I to do now? What did God want with me?!

 

I went to God with ferverent prayer, naturally.

 

I decided to let this matter go for a time and buried myself in studying other religions, philosophies and the sciences. I also began in-depth bible studies, reading some passages in their original Hebrew and Greek; seeing so many fallacies that I never seemed to notice before, as well as old ones I swept beneath the rug some years before. I saw it as a test. God's word was infallible and true, so any fallacies I saw had to be Satan causing confusion and doubt in my mind. I believed it was God redirecting my talents and life.

 

During my last year at college I began to serve as a music minister in a local church, and then went back to my home town in Western Tennessee to continue this after college. The doubts and truths had already been set, however, and I, once again went into deep study of the Bible, Judaism and Christianity.

 

I went back to the questions of the Great Flood. I discovered it all defied the laws of physics, leaving me with even more questions. If cubits wee to be calculated correctly and converted to todays measurements, then the flood waters would not have even covered a three-story building! The bible also could not account for sedimentary layering and the receding of the water. Once again, experts gave me excuses and explanations of interpretation, saying it was how people saw things at that time. I had enough of excuses and interpretations; why could it not just be clear cut?!

 

This was only the beginning. My faith and belief unravelled like a badly knit sweater. I quickly moved into agnosticism, with atheism trailing closely behind. How did I break the news to practically everyone I knew, though? I did not even know (personally) any agnostics or atheists besides myself, let alone keep the idea from devastating my family. I likened it to the same sort of impact that coming out as a homosexual would have on a religious family. So, I remained silent for five years pretending to be a Christian.

 

I went to a close friend in my church, at that time, and told him of my dilemma. This friend, whom I thought to be uncritical and non-judgemental, look at me in shock and bewilderment. He brought up worldly influences and the works of Satan – comparing my studies and freethought to pure evil. I could not believe the nonacceptance by the one person I thought would be empathetic towards my situation. It was then I decided I should step down as music minister and move on to other things. The church was confused, but at least my ex-friend kept his word and decided my reasons should stay quiet for a time – leaving my reasons as personal.

 

I was at a difficult place in my life. I wasn't accepted in either venue, agnostic / atheist, nor Christian. I did not believe any religion, yet at the same time, I did not like what I saw from some of the more organized Atheist groups in the U.S., such as American Atheists or the ACLU (although their members are not all non-religious nor does the ACLU belong to atheists or other groups. Some of the actions I saw from these groups were often bizarre, ridiculous and unnecessary. My views of the separation of Church and State, were of course, very strong and clear. However, some groups take it way beyond this to the point of being ludicrous. Some often group all Christians together beside the fundamentalists, ridiculing, and some individuals even clearly show hate for all those that are religious. I was appalled, and still am to some extent. These groups do not represent me, nor do I think they represent atheists. It is impossible to represent the non-religious; it's like trying to herd cats, I heard someone once say.

 

My first test was with my father, retired by then. He was admittedly disappointed, but in time has learned to accept me as a person and individual with morals apart from religion. Other friends decide not to discuss it and do the same as my father. For the remainder of my family and others, however, it has been difficult to accept. The usual questions and assumptions come into play "You are denying God, "Surely you know God exists, you are just hurt, "What tragedy closed your heart and mind to Christ?"

 

During the first one or two years of my atheism, I was a bit obnoxious, sorry to say. I would even dare say that I was a bit of a fundamentalist in an atheistic form. However, my wife, who's an agnostic, quickly reminded me of my very recent past, and that I should remember what it is like from both sides of the coin now. So, with her faithfully by my side, I have settled down over the past few years and have directed my fights towards the more important issues, such as teaching my children about life, all religions, and neither forcing religion nor atheism on them. I make sure that they have a thirst for knowledge, and leave everything open to them, while not drowning them at the same time. If they decide to follow religion as they become older, then so be it. I cannot stop them, nor would it be right for me to do so. It cannot be said, however, that I did not make every option available to them, and my wife and I did not teach them how to think logically, reasonably and freely.

 

Despite family hardships, fortunately, I feel more free than I ever have in my lifetime. Looking back, religion was necessary in my life in only to do nothing else but give me the tools and knowledge to help others like me and put things into perspective; easing the transition.

 

More to come later. Thank you for letting me share.

 

Odintim (I've noticed other Tim's here, so to part myself from the confusion . . .)

[Alice]

Hi Tim,

 

I relate to a lot of your testimony (although I cannot hold a tune!)

 

Thanks for posting.

[Joyous1]

Hello and welcome odintim. I am new here too, and very new to agnosticism. It's only been 2 weeks since I lost faith, so I am just beginning to disentangle.

 

Why Odin, are you Scandinavian?

[Checkmate]

During the first one or two years of my atheism, I was a bit obnoxious, sorry to say. I would even dare say that I was a bit of a fundamentalist in an atheistic form.

Don't feel too bad about this. As we've been learning on this forum, MANY of us have been and still ARE guilty of this mind-set. It takes time to break completely from the "Fundy" mode, but eventually we manage.

 

Thank you for your Ex-imony. It resonates with an all-too familiar ring, signaling that our struggles are not all that unique. We are NOT alone, nor are we "weird". Thanks again. And welcome!

[Taphophilia]

Hi Tim,

 

Thank you for sharing your story with us. It was a fascinating read and I hope to hear more.

 

One thing that I have noticed is that if you go to far in any direction of an ideaology you lose all sense of reality and some sense of humanity. It took me a while to understand that "Left Wing" can be just as radical, hard line, and completely devoid of real life in their espouses as the "Right Wingers" are.

 

Taph

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Welcome, Odintim!

 

I enjoyed reading your Ex-imony. You are very articulate;

I like that. Hope you post often here....it's always good

having people with your kind of education and background

here.

[godlessgrrl]

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry about the loss of your friends.

 

I totally hear you about that assumption that there's only one reason or event why anybody would stop being Xian. I get that sometimes too.

 

Welcome, and thanks again for sharing.

[pandora]

Welcome and thanks for the testimony. About herding cats, have you seen that commercial?

 

My husband is currently in the evangelist athiest/agnostic mode, the same on you seem to have gone through. Having been raised Catholic with free thinking parents, I am playing the part your wife played. The fundie mindset stays with you long after deconversion... I would say it is the hardest thing to deal with personally, harder than losing friends and family. You have to recreate an entire mindset, from scratch. I am never a bold enough person to evangelise my non-belief, but I understand the need to do so, especially if one was that kind of Christian before. I never really fully bought into or practiced evangelism (although a few failed attempts are in my past at my mom and a few friends, unfortunately).

 

How did you get beyond that point? I need some pointers to help my husband out.. he is currently writing obnoxious fact-laden emails to the pastor of his parents church. His parents are embarrassed. I find it amusing, but I do hope he gets beyond that kind of thing....LOL

[Amethyst]

Welcome! Glad you found us.

[odintim]

Thanks everyone for the great welcome. I suppose some of us become a little lost after losing fellowship from a religious face for so many years - you cannot just simply stop it and miss it!!

 

Pandora - I'm not sure which commercial you mean, although you've got my curiosity. I live in Norway, so most American commercials don't make here, even though most or more of the shows do.

 

As far as learning to live above the "fundamentalism", I'm not sure I've completely transcended that annoying little habit. I think I have just realized that certain fights are as futile as mopping a floor with the sink running over. I always honor and appreciate my wife's opinions, of course, but I don't think you make a person see a certain point of view until they've reached a marker to either see it themselves, approach things in a different way, or, as I have a few times, just completely embarrassed myself. That last one's always a good teacher.

 

I won't get into it about your husband, however, I must say, going after a pastor is beyond futile. No offense, but I've learned to steer away from personal venues, unless of course, I have the person in question present as well. Have you ever heard "The Preacher & the Bear" story? Although, I must say it is your hubby in the preacher role at the moment. I've been there - and he's setting himself up for disappointment and perhaps, as I've had, eating foot. I'll tell my wife, if that is ok, although I'm sure she was frustrated and confused as to what to do with me a few times as well. She often says, "I know you're American, but you're not living there any longer, so what is it you're fighting for?!"

 

One thing I HAVE learned is that you cannot simply stop a habit - you have to replace it with another. Of course, if he wants to speak with me, then by all means . . . keep in mind, though, I'm no expert. It'll be just a point of view.

 

SoulInCrisis - I chose Odin partially because I now live in Norway, and I've always been extremely interested in Norse mythology. I think the ancient Scandinavians and Vikings were a largely misunderstood people. This doesn't mean I'm going to become a druid or follow their old pagan religions, sacrificing goats to Odin and Loki. It just happens to be my favorite mythology, next to Celtic and Gælic. I think besides music, history, folklore and myths/legends take up the rest of the time I have left to sitting in a chair. If I'm not listening to music (which is every waking hour, to my wife's dismay), I'm reading, hiking and enjoying nature, and simply enjoying my wife's company. She is an agnostic with no religious background, so her questions are fresh, make me think and without any prejudice. I think we ex-Christians have a somewhat jaded point of view. Ok, well, I'll stop talking now. Too much coffee in the morning and it's difficult to get me to shut up.

 

Again, thanks to everyone for your welcome. I can see I'm going to like it here.

 

OT

[trashy]

Ah, the Genesis Flood claims yet another victim!

 

Welcome to reality!

[gliph]

Welcome Tim!

 

You are definitely in a good place. Although I am very new here as well, there is a wealth of information, support, and encouragement from the members here, new and old alike. Thanks for sharing your story, as much as it sounds like "everyone elses" to you, its is completely unique and encouraging to read.

 

Thanks and welcome.

[Guest Gemmy]

Welcome Tim!

 

You are definitely in a good place. Although I am very new here as well, there is a wealth of information, support, and encouragement from the members here, new and old alike. Thanks for sharing your story, as much as it sounds like "everyone elses" to you, its is completely unique and encouraging to read.

 

Thanks and welcome.

 

 

Hi All

 

I just thought i'd choose this spot to quickly introduce myself. When I have more time and the motivation strikes, I shall sit and pound out my story :-) Every time inspiration hits i get all daunted by the length of it all, which must mean i'm really really old ... LOL

 

I love this site. There are such intelligent and well spoken people in here, who really REALLY know how to address an issue and hit preverbial nails on preverbial heads!

 

Anyway i will leave this as a small introduction, and will attempt to post something resembling intelligent replies when i think i can be useful, funny, smartarsed, controversial, and other..well..stuff.

 

Cheers All

Oh, and Odintim, i have thoroughly enjoyed going through your thought processes. Me thinks you big brainy type guy!

 

Gemmy

[odintim]

Why thank you, Gemmy! My wife always said I'm a nerd in disguise, though . . .

 

I've much to learn compared to many of the members, here, however. I know much about philosophy, apologetics, etc. - I'm still new to the flip side of the coin, and am looking forward to the next X-amount of years as a freethinker. Welcome to the forum.

 

OT