bluewizard Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Why do they believe this? I still have to go to church once a week and the preacher's son(who is a preacher) claims and believes that God called him to be a preacher. Why do they believe it? Does their heart feel weird or what? They discussed spiritual gifts that you allegedly receive from the holy spirit when you become saved. How does one think God is talking to them? Why do people think this? I thought nowhere in the Bible does it say God will communicate with humans. As an atheist I'd like to get this problem cleared up because this is the last doubt preventing me from being truly free from Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Probably because they're told all their lives to believe it. Why is this screen so wide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Why do they believe this? I still have to go to church once a week and the preacher's son(who is a preacher) claims and believes that God called him to be a preacher. Why do they believe it? Does their heart feel weird or what? They discussed spiritual gifts that you allegedly receive from the holy spirit when you become saved. How does one think God is talking to them? Why do people think this? I thought nowhere in the Bible does it say God will communicate with humans. As an atheist I'd like to get this problem cleared up because this is the last doubt preventing me from being truly free from Christianity. I will try and answer this as best I can since at one time in my life God spoke to me. It's a nagging thought, this God speaking to you thing. My car needs it's oil changed, I'd better change it, God spoke to me. It's like that, but they attribute big life decisions to God speaking to them or "placing it on their heart." It's a want, a desire, it's what other people in their life want for them, that is a nagging thought. It has nothing to do with God telling you to do anything, it's your own brain and thought process. You hear thoughts in your head when you think, some of those thoughts, usually the big decision thoughts are misinterpreted as God. Here is my saying: You talking to God is called prayer. God talking to you is called Scitzophrenia. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 What Taph said. It isn't really god at all. It's a person's own ideas and insights and intuition and whatnot. They just ascribe it to god. Interestingly enough, I have yet to meet anybody who claimed that god spoke to them and told them something that they didn't agree with or didn't want to do. Funny how that works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 There were quite a few times in my "walk" over 25 years that I prayed for and believed that God had led me to one church or another to get involved in the music program. At the time, I was sure. I KNEW. Then after a time (anywhere from 8 months to three years) - I decided "well, that was fucked up". "Must've been me and not God." Funny thing about listening to the voice of God. Easy to get it confused with your own thoughts. Come to think of it, that's all it is. If this preacher's son thinks God is calling him to be a preacher, what it really means is he thinks this is something he'd like to do. Now, pardon me. God is calling me to cook up some dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I would also like to add that people with empathic personalities tend to hear God speaking to them more. Empathic type people tend to absorb other peoples emotions, it is how they process information. If you are a global feeler, as opposed to a global thinker, you will pick up unspoken emotional cues from others. If your mental process is internal and you are in the right denomination, a person can confuse this very real psychology with God speaking to them. However, it's still your damn thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 If you haven't listened to the Dan Barker v. Jason Gastrich interview posted by Neil, do so. It addresses this topic quite nicely. If I didn't know Gastrich was such a schmuck, I'd have felt sorry for the poor inarticulate bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxyroze Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I would also like to add that people with empathic personalities tend to hear God speaking to them more. Empathic type people tend to absorb other peoples emotions, it is how they process information. If you are a global feeler, as opposed to a global thinker, you will pick up unspoken emotional cues from others. If your mental process is internal and you are in the right denomination, a person can confuse this very real psychology with God speaking to them. However, it's still your damn thoughts. Oooh, I like Taphophilla's response. For me, whenever I was mulling over a troubling question or situation in my mind, I knew God had "spoken" to me when I had an epiphany and finally felt at peace. I constantly "felt" God's presence whenever I sat and watched the sunset or felt the wind blow. I "felt" God through the feeling of peace and spiritual ecstasy. So I agree with everyone else here, God speaking to people is simply their conscious talking to them, not God. I’ve come to believe that faith is basically all mental, sort of psychosomatic. If you believe that God well heal you, you’ll believe yourself healthy…if you believe that God well guide you somewhere, your conscious well guide you but under a “god” veil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Heaven for Kevin Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I think people mistake much of what is happening in their subconscious for something spiritual. A ouiji board is a very good example, a person's subconscious can make the person's hands "magically" spell out very complex and intriguing things that the person's conscious is not at all aware of. Thus making many people interpret the results as something spiritual. The subconscious is a very powerful thing, and can stimulate strong emotions and thoughts that seem to come out of nowhere for no particular reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 If you haven't listened to the Dan Barker v. Jason Gastrich interview posted by Neil, do so. It addresses this topic quite nicely. If I didn't know Gastrich was such a schmuck, I'd have felt sorry for the poor inarticulate bastard. I finally listened to that interview. Dan wiped the floor with Jason. The scary thing is I can see myself once providing the same answers that Jason did. What's even more frightening is that Jason could not recognize the weakness of his position. I would like to see Dan brush up on his moral theory before doing more of these though. He was fairly weak in this area and Gastrich had him fumbling a bit at the end of the interview. Not that Gastrich had any real points on the matter himself, just that Dan didn't make a very good case and as such left a door open for those pinned in a corner by his other points to point out some logical flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 You know something just occurred to me, about the whole thing about thinking god is speaking to you. I would imagine that for a lot of Xians - fundygelical types in particular - saying that god spoke to them or told them to do X is a kind of cover for their own desires. I mean I've known a number of Xians who were so convinced that everything they did, thought, wanted, or felt was just totally wicked. It makes sense, then, that if everything you do of your own free will is contrary to god and what he wants, then a way to get around that would be to pray about it for awhile and then say "god wants me to do X", instead of saying that you want to do X. The fundie ex I've written about here was like that, and so were his friends. He had one "friend" who was supposed to keep him "accountable", which basically meant doing everything possible to remind him that his own free will was automatically in conflict with what their god wanted. Fucker couldn't even wipe his own ass without praying about it first. So maybe for some, "god told me" is a justification meant to get around the guilt of even having a mind to think with in the first place. Like the church sets up the guilt and then provides a way around it. A loophole, if you will. I think the real truth is, it isn't god. We're moved to do things for all sorts of reasons and ultimately it lies within us why we do what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 You know something just occurred to me, about the whole thing about thinking god is speaking to you. I would imagine that for a lot of Xians - fundygelical types in particular - saying that god spoke to them or told them to do X is a kind of cover for their own desires. I mean I've known a number of Xians who were so convinced that everything they did, thought, wanted, or felt was just totally wicked. It makes sense, then, that if everything you do of your own free will is contrary to god and what he wants, then a way to get around that would be to pray about it for awhile and then say "god wants me to do X", instead of saying that you want to do X. The fundie ex I've written about here was like that, and so were his friends. He had one "friend" who was supposed to keep him "accountable", which basically meant doing everything possible to remind him that his own free will was automatically in conflict with what their god wanted. Fucker couldn't even wipe his own ass without praying about it first. So maybe for some, "god told me" is a justification meant to get around the guilt of even having a mind to think with in the first place. Like the church sets up the guilt and then provides a way around it. A loophole, if you will. I think the real truth is, it isn't god. We're moved to do things for all sorts of reasons and ultimately it lies within us why we do what we do. That's good qwenmead! Dear Jesus, Should I wipe front to back or back to front? Which way would glorify and edify you? Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 That's good qwenmead! Dear Jesus, Should I wipe front to back or back to front? Which way would glorify and edify you? Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Why do they believe this? I still have to go to church once a week and the preacher's son(who is a preacher) claims and believes that God called him to be a preacher. Why do they believe it? Does their heart feel weird or what? They discussed spiritual gifts that you allegedly receive from the holy spirit when you become saved. How does one think God is talking to them? Why do people think this? I thought nowhere in the Bible does it say God will communicate with humans. As an atheist I'd like to get this problem cleared up because this is the last doubt preventing me from being truly free from Christianity. Honestly, people believe what they want to believe. I've learned that if you want to feel something strongly enough, you will find some way to feel it. I felt like Jesus was speaking to me when I became a Protestant and read the King James Version, the Only True Bible™. I felt like Jesus was speaking to me when I decided Protestantism was wrong and returned to the Roman Catholic Church and felt His Presence™ through the sacraments, especially Communion and Confession. I felt it because I wanted to, and because others whose teaching authority I respected told me to feel like that, that it was right to do so. But, in the end, I couldn't avoid the conclusions my God-given brain came up with, that feelings are not the final guide to right and wrong. Only facts and truth are, and reason is the only way people come to find out what is fact and what is fiction. If Jesus was speaking to me, he'd still be speaking now, and louder than ever - but silence. And I know I'm not the only one to get that silence. Not a 'feeling' that can be interpreted anyway I choose, but real, undeniable proof that Jesus is speaking to me was what I needed, and I only got the undeniable presence of Reason. We can 'feel' anything, but certain truths never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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