Almost Over It All, But Still Have One Problem...

[Storm]

Hey all

 

I am new to this group and I have to say that I am amazed at the things that I have found in this group. Many people just like me,and some who finally took the leap and left christianity. I have had many questions over the years and recently over the past few months have had answers that completely rocked my world and everything I have believed in so long. I have been a christian for all of my life that I can remember and I have tried so hard to live the life as best as I know how and I have always felt like it wasnt enough. Now, as I look more closely, I realize that its entirely possible that everything I have believed in is a sham. Its harrowing. Its frustrating. Many of you know what I am feeling.

But...

I have experienced many joyous times in "god's" presence and I understand that they were just emotionally charged moments, but there is one experience that I cannot logically explain. It was an experience that cannot be explained by emotion or any rational thinking that I am capable of at this time. The experience was this:

My father had passed away a couple months prior to the day it happened and, foolishly, I had taken the spare key that my father had on his keyring and put it on my keyring, thus making all my car's keys on one keyring. I had gone to a meeting for youth leaders in my church and inadvertently ended up locking my keys in my car. I was frustrated that I locked them in my car, but went to the meeting. After the meeting, me and some of my friends started trying to figure out how we might be able to get into my car. After a while, I just had this thought that maybe I should use my dads knife and try to open the lock with it. It was a crazy idea, but i figured what do I have to lose. So I did, and viola! the lock unlocked and I opened the door. We all stood there amazed and dumbfounded. I took out my keys and locked the door again and tried the knife again a couple of times and it unlocked the door each time. My friends laughed and teased me that anyone could get into my car with just a knife. We ended up leaving a little while later, and I thought nothing of it. Well, the next night, I needed to remind myself of an appointment and usually I did this by leaving a post-it note on my dashboard in my car. So I wrote out the reminder and went out to my car to put it on the dashboard. When I got to the car, I thought to myself "try the knife again". So I took out the knife and tried to unlock the door. It would not unlock. I tried a couple more times, and no luck. (As a side note, I tried a few times in the next couple weeks and still no luck, it would not unlock). I went ahead and put the note on my dash and locked the car and headed back inside. As soon as I got inside, I heard a voice inside me say "I took care of such a small problem for you, trust that I can take care of everything else". Now I have had "still small voice experiences" before, but there was doubt in those moments, like "did I really just hear this?" kind of thing. But this experience was different. There was no doubt. It was as if it had been spoken audibly. I had no doubt what was happening. I subsequently made a decision to trust god and things worked out and I was able to move out of state and start school.

I can say that just reading about what I just experienced that day, I can see that it doesnt necessarily look that exciting or "miraculous", but I can say that it was a powerful experience for me and its the only thing that is keeping me from abandoning the christianity ship outright and giving up on god. I have been able to logically disprove christianity and the bible and I have become repulsed by all the christian "vomit" that all my friends and church people spew out. But I can't shake this experience.

Does anyone else relate to this? Does anyone else have an experience that shook them up and has no logical explanation?

[LifeCycle]

There are many unexplainable things that happen within our lives.  Even for those that don't subscribe to any religion.  I was never a witness to any supernatural experiences in my lifetime but when I was a Christian I wanted to experience something like that so bad.  And this can cause issue... If we desperately want something to occur, we look at many things that we can't explain and immediately label it "God."  In your case, why can't God be clear about his involvement?  Why can't he simply unlock the door while you're standing there and then audibly state, "It was me, I did it, I am God!"  Once human hands are involved the so-called miraculous scene is compromised.  I can't explain what happened with your car lock.  But you're the one who used the knife.  It was your idea. The knife you had in your pocket, for whatever reason... It all points back to you.

 

Welcome to the club.  This is a great place and you're in good company here. 

[florduh]

has no logical explanation?

 

 

 

Really? Just imagine, if you can, that there is no magic. How could this happen by mundane means?

 

Just imagine a god in charge of a world full of starving people and deformed children proves his existence by unlocking a fucking car door. I know the brainwashing is still fresh, but think about it.

[Overcame Faith]

Welcome to ExC, Norm.

 

I am sure that the fact that the knife unlocked the car door could be easily explained by someone who knows more about locks, like maybe a locksmith.

 

The fact that the next day and each time you subsequently tried to use the knife to unlock the car door, probably had something to do with either some damage you did to your lock by using the knife or some damage done to the knife (even if you can't see the damage, it could still be there).

 

"I took care of such a small problem for you, trust that I can take care of everything else".

 

This is what you heard.  What I see in these words is you expressing confidence in yourself which, as you relate, was justified when you moved out of state and started school.  I suspect you may have been nervous about the new life on which you were about to embark and your having found a good way to unlock that door gave you self-confidence.

[ToHellWithMe]

Non-god works in mysterious ways.

[Guest r3alchild]

Hey all

 

I am new to this group and I have to say that I am amazed at the things that I have found in this group. Many people just like me,and some who finally took the leap and left christianity. I have had many questions over the years and recently over the past few months have had answers that completely rocked my world and everything I have believed in so long. I have been a christian for all of my life that I can remember and I have tried so hard to live the life as best as I know how and I have always felt like it wasnt enough. Now, as I look more closely, I realize that its entirely possible that everything I have believed in is a sham. Its harrowing. Its frustrating. Many of you know what I am feeling.

But...

I have experienced many joyous times in "god's" presence and I understand that they were just emotionally charged moments, but there is one experience that I cannot logically explain. It was an experience that cannot be explained by emotion or any rational thinking that I am capable of at this time. The experience was this:

My father had passed away a couple months prior to the day it happened and, foolishly, I had taken the spare key that my father had on his keyring and put it on my keyring, thus making all my car's keys on one keyring. I had gone to a meeting for youth leaders in my church and inadvertently ended up locking my keys in my car. I was frustrated that I locked them in my car, but went to the meeting. After the meeting, me and some of my friends started trying to figure out how we might be able to get into my car. After a while, I just had this thought that maybe I should use my dads knife and try to open the lock with it. It was a crazy idea, but i figured what do I have to lose. So I did, and viola! the lock unlocked and I opened the door. We all stood there amazed and dumbfounded. I took out my keys and locked the door again and tried the knife again a couple of times and it unlocked the door each time. My friends laughed and teased me that anyone could get into my car with just a knife. We ended up leaving a little while later, and I thought nothing of it. Well, the next night, I needed to remind myself of an appointment and usually I did this by leaving a post-it note on my dashboard in my car. So I wrote out the reminder and went out to my car to put it on the dashboard. When I got to the car, I thought to myself "try the knife again". So I took out the knife and tried to unlock the door. It would not unlock. I tried a couple more times, and no luck. (As a side note, I tried a few times in the next couple weeks and still no luck, it would not unlock). I went ahead and put the note on my dash and locked the car and headed back inside. As soon as I got inside, I heard a voice inside me say "I took care of such a small problem for you, trust that I can take care of everything else". Now I have had "still small voice experiences" before, but there was doubt in those moments, like "did I really just hear this?" kind of thing. But this experience was different. There was no doubt. It was as if it had been spoken audibly. I had no doubt what was happening. I subsequently made a decision to trust god and things worked out and I was able to move out of state and start school.

I can say that just reading about what I just experienced that day, I can see that it doesnt necessarily look that exciting or "miraculous", but I can say that it was a powerful experience for me and its the only thing that is keeping me from abandoning the christianity ship outright and giving up on god. I have been able to logically disprove christianity and the bible and I have become repulsed by all the christian "vomit" that all my friends and church people spew out. But I can't shake this experience.

Does anyone else relate to this? Does anyone else have an experience that shook them up and has no logical explanation?

Well I can explain that, maybe when you used the knife to jury rig the car door open it worked very easy because the lock was in very good condition and was much more sensitive to the knifes size and shape (when I was a kid I used to grind a thin saw blade down so it was like a v in shape, the smallest point at its tip. I was able to open any padlock with it, this is because the blade would push all the tumbers down at once and unlock the lock)

 

But since you messed around with the lock a few times you damaged it enough to make the lock less senstive to the knife I bet if you try it again and be gentle with it, it might spring open. (I had problems opening the lock when I applied to much pressure)

 

As for the voice in your head, thats your own mind making a association to the event after the fact. Its your mind finding patterns from random events and creating order you can relate to.

[Ouroboros]

Non-god works in mysterious ways.

Some years ago, a member named him "Nahweh".

 

Norm, just to let you know, I've had several "spiritual" feelings or experiences after my de-conversion. It's something natural, i.e. the experiences can be experience in this natural world. Even had "premonitions" before things happening, but on the other hand, there's been times when things happened and I didn't have any premonition. And there's been times when I did have a premonition but nothing happened. It's the odd coincidences that we tend to remember, and the fails we forget. Put it this way, play on Lotto until you win. You will forget how many times you were wrong before you was right one time.

[Guest r3alchild]

Hey all

 

I am new to this group and I have to say that I am amazed at the things that I have found in this group. Many people just like me,and some who finally took the leap and left christianity. I have had many questions over the years and recently over the past few months have had answers that completely rocked my world and everything I have believed in so long. I have been a christian for all of my life that I can remember and I have tried so hard to live the life as best as I know how and I have always felt like it wasnt enough. Now, as I look more closely, I realize that its entirely possible that everything I have believed in is a sham. Its harrowing. Its frustrating. Many of you know what I am feeling.

But...

I have experienced many joyous times in "god's" presence and I understand that they were just emotionally charged moments, but there is one experience that I cannot logically explain. It was an experience that cannot be explained by emotion or any rational thinking that I am capable of at this time. The experience was this:

My father had passed away a couple months prior to the day it happened and, foolishly, I had taken the spare key that my father had on his keyring and put it on my keyring, thus making all my car's keys on one keyring. I had gone to a meeting for youth leaders in my church and inadvertently ended up locking my keys in my car. I was frustrated that I locked them in my car, but went to the meeting. After the meeting, me and some of my friends started trying to figure out how we might be able to get into my car. After a while, I just had this thought that maybe I should use my dads knife and try to open the lock with it. It was a crazy idea, but i figured what do I have to lose. So I did, and viola! the lock unlocked and I opened the door. We all stood there amazed and dumbfounded. I took out my keys and locked the door again and tried the knife again a couple of times and it unlocked the door each time. My friends laughed and teased me that anyone could get into my car with just a knife. We ended up leaving a little while later, and I thought nothing of it. Well, the next night, I needed to remind myself of an appointment and usually I did this by leaving a post-it note on my dashboard in my car. So I wrote out the reminder and went out to my car to put it on the dashboard. When I got to the car, I thought to myself "try the knife again". So I took out the knife and tried to unlock the door. It would not unlock. I tried a couple more times, and no luck. (As a side note, I tried a few times in the next couple weeks and still no luck, it would not unlock). I went ahead and put the note on my dash and locked the car and headed back inside. As soon as I got inside, I heard a voice inside me say "I took care of such a small problem for you, trust that I can take care of everything else". Now I have had "still small voice experiences" before, but there was doubt in those moments, like "did I really just hear this?" kind of thing. But this experience was different. There was no doubt. It was as if it had been spoken audibly. I had no doubt what was happening. I subsequently made a decision to trust god and things worked out and I was able to move out of state and start school.

I can say that just reading about what I just experienced that day, I can see that it doesnt necessarily look that exciting or "miraculous", but I can say that it was a powerful experience for me and its the only thing that is keeping me from abandoning the christianity ship outright and giving up on god. I have been able to logically disprove christianity and the bible and I have become repulsed by all the christian "vomit" that all my friends and church people spew out. But I can't shake this experience.

Does anyone else relate to this? Does anyone else have an experience that shook them up and has no logical explanation?

Also as a christian I used to make associations with random events and pin them to my faith, its the way religion works. If you were a hindu it would have been some elephant god telling you the same thing.

[midniterider]

Hey all

 

I am new to this group and I have to say that I am amazed at the things that I have found in this group. Many people just like me,and some who finally took the leap and left christianity. I have had many questions over the years and recently over the past few months have had answers that completely rocked my world and everything I have believed in so long. I have been a christian for all of my life that I can remember and I have tried so hard to live the life as best as I know how and I have always felt like it wasnt enough. Now, as I look more closely, I realize that its entirely possible that everything I have believed in is a sham. Its harrowing. Its frustrating. Many of you know what I am feeling.

But...

I have experienced many joyous times in "god's" presence and I understand that they were just emotionally charged moments, but there is one experience that I cannot logically explain. It was an experience that cannot be explained by emotion or any rational thinking that I am capable of at this time. The experience was this:

My father had passed away a couple months prior to the day it happened and, foolishly, I had taken the spare key that my father had on his keyring and put it on my keyring, thus making all my car's keys on one keyring. I had gone to a meeting for youth leaders in my church and inadvertently ended up locking my keys in my car. I was frustrated that I locked them in my car, but went to the meeting. After the meeting, me and some of my friends started trying to figure out how we might be able to get into my car. After a while, I just had this thought that maybe I should use my dads knife and try to open the lock with it. It was a crazy idea, but i figured what do I have to lose. So I did, and viola! the lock unlocked and I opened the door. We all stood there amazed and dumbfounded. I took out my keys and locked the door again and tried the knife again a couple of times and it unlocked the door each time. My friends laughed and teased me that anyone could get into my car with just a knife. We ended up leaving a little while later, and I thought nothing of it. Well, the next night, I needed to remind myself of an appointment and usually I did this by leaving a post-it note on my dashboard in my car. So I wrote out the reminder and went out to my car to put it on the dashboard. When I got to the car, I thought to myself "try the knife again". So I took out the knife and tried to unlock the door. It would not unlock. I tried a couple more times, and no luck. (As a side note, I tried a few times in the next couple weeks and still no luck, it would not unlock). I went ahead and put the note on my dash and locked the car and headed back inside. As soon as I got inside, I heard a voice inside me say "I took care of such a small problem for you, trust that I can take care of everything else". Now I have had "still small voice experiences" before, but there was doubt in those moments, like "did I really just hear this?" kind of thing. But this experience was different. There was no doubt. It was as if it had been spoken audibly. I had no doubt what was happening. I subsequently made a decision to trust god and things worked out and I was able to move out of state and start school.

I can say that just reading about what I just experienced that day, I can see that it doesnt necessarily look that exciting or "miraculous", but I can say that it was a powerful experience for me and its the only thing that is keeping me from abandoning the christianity ship outright and giving up on god. I have been able to logically disprove christianity and the bible and I have become repulsed by all the christian "vomit" that all my friends and church people spew out. But I can't shake this experience.

Does anyone else relate to this? Does anyone else have an experience that shook them up and has no logical explanation?

 

I found a pretyped text message on my phone that was prepared to be sent to my wife. It made no sense and I never typed it. My phone has a lock code on it so nobody can just start using it except me. I discovered this while shopping at Walmart.

 

Another time at Walmart I was counting my one dollar bills and notced a 5 mixed in with them. So happy I went to the checkout but the 5 was suddenly gone. I looked all over. No 5 anywhere. But of course we know Walmart is a vortex of weirdness.

 

I've experienced a number of out of body experiences, lucid dreams, inanimate objects finding new places to rest in the house. Wife and I have heard each other's voice when each of us was alone.  Ghosts? Imagination? Take your pick.

 

I felt the "Holy Spirit" many times at church. I still feel something similar about .6 miles into a walk and not thinking about Jesus. I've also felt an expanded mind using self hypnosis... and sometimes with drugs. 

 

There is no requirement to deny your experiences of unexplained phenomena to be an Ex-Christian.

There is no requirement to accept all doctrine and dogma of Christianity just because you have had an unexplained experience(s).

I believe whatever I find personally enjoyable even if I just made it up. I discard beliefs and doctrine that are irritating. The mind control of Christianity became irritating so it had to go.

 

Your experience does not have to have an explanation under the Christian belief system or any other belief system.

[midniterider]

 

Non-god works in mysterious ways.

Some years ago, a member named him "Nahweh".

 

Norm, just to let you know, I've had several "spiritual" feelings or experiences after my de-conversion. It's something natural, i.e. the experiences can be experience in this natural world. Even had "premonitions" before things happening, but on the other hand, there's been times when things happened and I didn't have any premonition. And there's been times when I did have a premonition but nothing happened. It's the odd coincidences that we tend to remember, and the fails we forget. Put it this way, play on Lotto until you win. You will forget how many times you were wrong before you was right one time.

 

 

Someone I used to work with frequently said, "I have a bad feeling about this one." lol. Her percentage of accuracy wasnt that good tho. :-)

[VacuumFlux]

I would also point out, about the voice, that at less than a year after the death of a parent, you were probably still grieving. Using something that had belong to him would bring up a lot of pretty strong emotions, which would increase the odds of your brain doing something a little out of the ordinary, such as sorta-hearing a voice speaking to you.

 

I used to have two way conversations with god while I was a christian, and really held on to those as proof of the truth of the religion and assurance of salvation. He always felt like a golden light, gentle, but not avoiding saying things that needed said. I refered to god as "the one voice in my head that doesn't belong to me". But then I started to question, and one day I decided to see what would happen if I tried to consciously make that feeling happen. It happend. At that point, I realized that it had never been an external entity putting thoughts in my head, it had simply been me all along. In a way it was sad to lose my imaginary friend, but it was also kinda nice to know that the supposedly external entity I'd been trying to rely on to get through life was actually a piece of me that was always available. No more waiting on god, no hoping for answers and fixes to fall from heaven.

 

As other have said, there's no reason for you to reject your experience or see it as less special than it was to you. You simply don't need to attribute it to the christian god if that no longer makes sense to you.

[new2me]

Welcome, Norm!

 

When I was trying to decide where to go to grad school, it was a tough choice.  I was accepted to a very prestigious university, and a less prestigious one.  The less prestigious one offered me a free ride scholarship, but with the other school, the entire cost was on me.  Friends from church I consulted about this told me that the scholarship was God's clear guidance of the 'right path' for me.  I was less convinced of this 'fact.'  Once, while I was thinking about this in a quiet moment, I heard a voice inside me say "Choose where you want to go.  I will take care of the rest."  I was convinced this was God.  I chose the prestigious university, and everything after that did work out well for me.

 

I know that there was no mysterious thing like the knife operating the lock in my story, but it was the first time I really thought I felt God speaking directly to me.  It felt very real.  Now I believe that it was just my subconscious mind cutting through the stress of my conscious mind telling me what I already knew... that no matter what decision I made, I was going to do well afterwards.  I think the human mind is a very creative thing.  Sometimes we have the ability to connect with knowledge that we do not realize we possess.

[midniterider]

Anyone looked into this before and related it back to Christianity?

 

http://tulpa.info/

[Storm]

Thanks for "listening" to my concerns. I appreciate the honesty of the people in this group. This whole process has been a real difficult thing in my life. I have a long journey ahead of me and tons of questions and decisions to make. Thanks for all your input and ideas. It makes things a bit easier to handle.

[Jose]

[par4dcourse]

I would be suspicious of any god who only spoke in an inner voice and lock picking.

 

Welcome to the forums, Norm.

[raoul]

Many of us experienced similar 'brain farts' as I call them when we were in the cult as well. Simply N/A..

[LivingLife]

Thanks for "listening" to my concerns. I appreciate the honesty of the people in this group. This whole process has been a real difficult thing in my life. I have a long journey ahead of me and tons of questions and decisions to make. Thanks for all your input and ideas. It makes things a bit easier to handle.

Norm, welcome to the forums. I seldom deal in folks deconverting as there are enough here with good input and explanations.

 

I will say that you have to deal with the things that seemed real to you. They were real but all of them fabrications of your own mind due to indoctrination and the need to make it so. Everything from the anointing (goose bumps) speaking in tongues, prophesy etc. ALL of it was real (in your mind).

 

It is a long process to rationalise these matters as you now have to look at things from a totally secular perspective.

 

This video is what I recommend folk like you look at.

 

 

It will answer a lot of questions and open up a whole lot more. I hope this helps.

[new2me]

 

Thanks for "listening" to my concerns. I appreciate the honesty of the people in this group. This whole process has been a real difficult thing in my life. I have a long journey ahead of me and tons of questions and decisions to make. Thanks for all your input and ideas. It makes things a bit easier to handle.

Norm, welcome to the forums. I seldom deal in folks deconverting as there are enough here with good input and explanations.

 

I will say that you have to deal with the things that seemed real to you. They were real but all of them fabrications of your own mind due to indoctrination and the need to make it so. Everything from the anointing (goose bumps) speaking in tongues, prophesy etc. ALL of it was real (in your mind).

 

It is a long process to rationalise these matters as you now have to look at things from a totally secular perspective.

 

This video is what I recommend folk like you look at.

 

 

It will answer a lot of questions and open up a whole lot more. I hope this helps.

 

And definitely watch part 2 (God is bull).  It shows a bunch of the remaining people go from not believing in God to believing in God after the guy performs a few tricks.  Of course, what they mean by "God" is not defined - but it shows how people's desire to believe in something, and the mentality of following the crowd makes these charismatic megachurches so popular.