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Guest r3alchild
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Guest r3alchild

I had a great time tonight with an old friend, we ate subway and played a rpg I had been designing for the last 2 weeks. Then after we played for 2 hours we started talking about religion. He is mormon and I am recent ex c, I expressed so much I have learned from here and he expressed many of the mormon things he learned from over there. The conversation never got out of hand, not one angry word was spoken, then around 12 at night he left.

 

So why do I feel I have done something wrong, someone please tell me whats going on, because I don't know why I feel this way all the time.

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I don't know why you feel like you have done something wrong when you have not. Something your Mormon friend said probably got to you somehow.

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Feelings are real but they can be misleading.  I can't tell you what happened between you and your friend because I wasn't there.

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This struck me because its something I am dealing with now as I contemplate my deconversion. I have many Christian friends that I love and care about and I just don't have the heart to tell them what I am going through because I don't want them to have to deal with this whole deconversion. Its like I want to protect them. And I cant figure out why. I feel somewhat like you do in that if I open the door to their doubts, then I will have ruined their lives. Its so stinking crazy!

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So why do I feel I have done something wrong

 

 

It's due to the pervasive nature of religion and magical beliefs in general. Anyone who doesn't believe as everyone else is made to feel as if they must somehow be wrong. Can 15 million Mormons be wrong? Can 2 billion Christians be wrong? Can a billion and a half Muslims be wrong? Obviously, SOMEBODY is wrong. 

 

In the Land of the Christians, you are ostracized, sometimes subtly and sometimes overtly, because your non-belief challenges their comfortable belief. If you lived in a Muslim country like Iran or Great Britain (joke, sort of) you would be shunned for not sharing that particular belief.

 

You have done nothing wrong. You just hold a minority opinion in this society, an opinion that makes the majority a little uncomfortable.

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The brainwashing that you are slowly recovering from was intense and thorough. The conscious mind is willing, but the subconscious, where most feelings are produced, takes longer. Strange feelings will sometimes bubble up as old religious dogma is released.

Takes time, but rational thought will win.

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I had a great time tonight with an old friend, we ate subway and played a rpg I had been designing for the last 2 weeks. Then after we played for 2 hours we started talking about religion. He is mormon and I am recent ex c, I expressed so much I have learned from here and he expressed many of the mormon things he learned from over there. The conversation never got out of hand, not one angry word was spoken, but after 2 hours of talking he left.

 

So why do I feel I have done something wrong, someone please tell me whats going on, because I don't know why I feel this way all the time.

 

His act of walking away--his attitude and body language--may have left the distinct and intentional impression that he thinks you are very deluded and just plain WRONG. He may expect you to be bothered by this walking away. Some people want to get us to "think." And not in a logical, rational way, but in a fearful spiritual way. If you're not up to these tactics, you may have simply been left with the feeling that you "did something wrong."

 

I wasn't there, didn't hear the conversation or see him walk away. Nor do I know you or him so I can only guess.

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His walking away may have meant that you had a profound effect on him and he wasn't sure how to handle it any other way.

 

Conversion puts a hook into a low-level survival mechanism that is self-protecting (unless I continue to believe, daddy will hurt me bad, doubt makes him angry, loop-program). When that program is threatened, it makes the believer very uncomfortable and he will look for absurd arguments (defending the faith) or a way out of the situation. It takes something profound, or a lot of somethings, to unhook that program and allow the person to realize that the program was false all along.

 

I've found it best to not try to interpret silence. It puts me into a tizzy trying to figure out what someone is feeling and thinking. It's best to either ask or wait for a real response, and not to worry about it in the meantime. The times I have guessed, I've usually been completely wrong.

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Guest r3alchild

 

 

I had a great time tonight with an old friend, we ate subway and played a rpg I had been designing for the last 2 weeks. Then after we played for 2 hours we started talking about religion. He is mormon and I am recent ex c, I expressed so much I have learned from here and he expressed many of the mormon things he learned from over there. The conversation never got out of hand, not one angry word was spoken, but after 2 hours of talking he left.

 

So why do I feel I have done something wrong, someone please tell me whats going on, because I don't know why I feel this way all the time.

His act of walking away--his attitude and body language--may have left the distinct and intentional impression that he thinks you are very deluded and just plain WRONG. He may expect you to be bothered by this walking away. Some people want to get us to "think." And not in a logical, rational way, but in a fearful spiritual way. If you're not up to these tactics, you may have simply been left with the feeling that you "did something wrong."

 

I wasn't there, didn't hear the conversation or see him walk away. Nor do I know you or him so I can only guess.

He left because it was 12 at night not because he was upset. Ill change the op so no one gets confused.
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Guest r3alchild

 

 

I had a great time tonight with an old friend, we ate subway and played a rpg I had been designing for the last 2 weeks. Then after we played for 2 hours we started talking about religion. He is mormon and I am recent ex c, I expressed so much I have learned from here and he expressed many of the mormon things he learned from over there. The conversation never got out of hand, not one angry word was spoken, but after 2 hours of talking he left.

 

So why do I feel I have done something wrong, someone please tell me whats going on, because I don't know why I feel this way all the time.

His act of walking away--his attitude and body language--may have left the distinct and intentional impression that he thinks you are very deluded and just plain WRONG. He may expect you to be bothered by this walking away. Some people want to get us to "think." And not in a logical, rational way, but in a fearful spiritual way. If you're not up to these tactics, you may have simply been left with the feeling that you "did something wrong."

 

I wasn't there, didn't hear the conversation or see him walk away. Nor do I know you or him so I can only guess.

Double post.
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Guest r3alchild

His walking away may have meant that you had a profound effect on him and he wasn't sure how to handle it any other way.

 

Conversion puts a hook into a low-level survival mechanism that is self-protecting (unless I continue to believe, daddy will hurt me bad, doubt makes him angry, loop-program). When that program is threatened, it makes the believer very uncomfortable and he will look for absurd arguments (defending the faith) or a way out of the situation. It takes something profound, or a lot of somethings, to unhook that program and allow the person to realize that the program was false all along.

 

I've found it best to not try to interpret silence. It puts me into a tizzy trying to figure out what someone is feeling and thinking. It's best to either ask or wait for a real response, and not to worry about it in the meantime. The times I have guessed, I've usually been completely wrong.

He left because it was 12 at night not because he was upset. Ill change the op so no one gets confused.
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you have done something wrong for???

 

1. expressing your disbelief of religion?

2. talking to him for 2 hours?

 

I presume the conversation was ok, no angry words,,, my question is what did you feel wrong about?

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Guest r3alchild

you have done something wrong for???

 

1. expressing your disbelief of religion?

2. talking to him for 2 hours?

 

I presume the conversation was ok, no angry words,,, my question is what did you feel wrong about?

I don't know, it was this nasty feeling that I had done something bad. Its still here now after a whole day has passed by.
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If you run arguments based on other's convictions and research, you will make yourself vulnerable. These have to be personal convictions and conclusions. Only then can you defend your unbelief. It gets better over time, don't try and rush it and stick with a label like agnostic as that tends not to frighten people too much. Atheist, well then you eat babies and worship satan in their eyes :D

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Guest r3alchild

If you run arguments based on other's convictions and research, you will make yourself vulnerable. These have to be personal convictions and conclusions. Only then can you defend your unbelief. It gets better over time, don't try and rush it and stick with a label like agnostic as that tends not to frighten people too much. Atheist, well then you eat babies and worship satan in their eyes :D

What the fuck, I can't eat babies? All my life I thought eating babies was ok. Thankyou christians for showing me that eating babies is wrong, what would I do without your god.
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Is there anything in particular that one of you said that you keep thinking about?

 

You said you had a really great time with him … maybe you're feeling that talking about religion sort of ruined it or you bonded less with him than you could have because of religion?

 

Is it purely emotional? Because FWIW, I've had moments of guilt come out of nowhere with or without religion involved and there was no way to explain it. Can't do anything if you don't know what's wrong, so …

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you have done something wrong for???

 

1. expressing your disbelief of religion?

2. talking to him for 2 hours?

 

I presume the conversation was ok, no angry words,,, my question is what did you feel wrong about?

I don't know, it was this nasty feeling that I had done something bad. Its still here now after a whole day has passed by.

 

 

 

You expressed ideas that you know your friend sees as thought crimes.  You know your friend is delusional.  But your friend believes he is a close personal friend of the "loving" version of Kim Joun Un in the sky.  Your friend believes that Loving Sky Dictator can read his thoughts and sees everything so there is no point in trying to hide this "thought crime" he witnessed.  So he is probably going to tell a prayer chain to pray for you.  He believes that asking Loving Sky Dictator to change your heart will somehow spare you from the wrath of Loving Sky Dictator.

 

That is how fucked up Christianity is - yes even the Latter Day Saints version.

 

Maybe you should listen to some rock music until the feeling passes.  Have a beer with dinner.  Exercise.  Move on with your life and let the emotion pass naturally.  Personally I like to look at anti-Christian memes and vids when I get those feelings.  Try reddit atheism.

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Reading the op; I feel like that sometimes and for me I think it is because I strongly dislike confrontation. Having to strongly disagree with someone usually makes me me feel like I am doing something wrong, then comes the panic and paranoia. It is awful. When I was christian I felt that way talking to atheists! lol

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Guest r3alchild

Is there anything in particular that one of you said that you keep thinking about?

 

You said you had a really great time with him … maybe you're feeling that talking about religion sort of ruined it or you bonded less with him than you could have because of religion?

 

Is it purely emotional? Because FWIW, I've had moments of guilt come out of nowhere with or without religion involved and there was no way to explain it. Can't do anything if you don't know what's wrong, so …

For many years I was strictly corrected by christians when I forged my own christian identity and was always told to stay on track. I think its this conditioning thats setting off those emotions.
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Guest r3alchild

 

 

 

you have done something wrong for???

 

1. expressing your disbelief of religion?

2. talking to him for 2 hours?

 

I presume the conversation was ok, no angry words,,, my question is what did you feel wrong about?

I don't know, it was this nasty feeling that I had done something bad. Its still here now after a whole day has passed by.

 

You expressed ideas that you know your friend sees as thought crimes. You know your friend is delusional. But your friend believes he is a close personal friend of the "loving" version of Kim Joun Un in the sky. Your friend believes that Loving Sky Dictator can read his thoughts and sees everything so there is no point in trying to hide this "thought crime" he witnessed. So he is probably going to tell a prayer chain to pray for you. He believes that asking Loving Sky Dictator to change your heart will somehow spare you from the wrath of Loving Sky Dictator.

 

That is how fucked up Christianity is - yes even the Latter Day Saints version.

 

Maybe you should listen to some rock music until the feeling passes. Have a beer with dinner. Exercise. Move on with your life and let the emotion pass naturally. Personally I like to look at anti-Christian memes and vids when I get those feelings. Try reddit atheism.

Ok
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For many years I was strictly corrected by christians when I forged my own christian identity and was always told to stay on track. I think its this conditioning thats setting off those emotions.

 

 

That makes sense to me. That night with your friend you expressed a distinct identity, and on top of that you expressed beliefs that certainly differed from what those strict Christians endorsed. You "disobeyed" and disobedience automatically brings feelings of guilt in any normal person with a sensitive conscience. The stronger the teachings and the longer you lived with them, the more and the longer you may have to deal with this false guilt. After ten years I no longer felt any fear of hell, for example. It gets easier long before those ten years are up. At seven years I was all but free of it. The worst time was the first four months or so. I'm not suggesting that fear of hell is your problem. I'm just using it as the example from my personal experience. For me, that's what this kind of guilt translated into, and it was based purely on the teachings of my own upbringing. Your upbringing was different so the shape of the issues will be different. But guilt is guilt and it comes with disobedience even if the dictator should not be obeyed and the guilt is false.

 

I'm suggesting you're dealing with false guilt because you seem not to know what you did wrong yet you express feelings of guilt. If you'd actually done something that is ethically and morally wrong I'm guessing you're old enough and mature enough that you would know it. The general rule of thumb is that you can do whatever you like so long as you don't hurt yourself or others. The Golden Rule--do unto others as you would like them to do unto you--and the laws of the land are a guideline in that respect. (I don't want to get into a heated debate re laws of the land being good or bad but the intent of many of them is to protect people from getting hurt--don't kill, don't steal, drive safely, etc.)

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r3alchild: This is kind of odd, but I am going to refer to something in the Bible for your consideration.

I don't have chapter and verse, but it says: "The heart is deceptive above all things." As you know,

"the heart" means emotions in the Bible.

 

But I want you to know that a lot of us eXtians have vague feelings of guilt and similar feelings for a

while. The writers of the NT and the Church "fathers" were not stupid. They created a virtual prison from

which its prisoners were not intended to escape. bill

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