More from Digger

[Guest digger]

As my conversion/de-conversion experience appears to be a little different from many and some further information has been requested, I thought I would expand on my testimony (published here for those who haven’t seen it) and try to answer some of your questions. I’ll start with why I became a Christian in the first place and move on from there.

 

As I said in my testimony I was living in Aberdeen, Scotland at the time. It was a snowy and cold January evening a couple of weeks after my 30th birthday. In those days the BBC ran a TV series called Everyman which was a serious religious affairs programme. That evening we watched a taped copy of the previous Sunday’s programme. It was about Medjugorje (then in Yugoslavia; now in Bosnia) and the events surrounding the alleged appearances of the Virgin Mary to some children in the town. During the programme I started getting the strangest feelings that in some sense what I was watching was true. It felt that I had no choice but to believe that God was “talking” directly to me and that I had to interpret my experience within a Christian context. I didn’t hear any voices or see any visions or anything like that, but the experience was far too powerful to be ignored.

 

As I mentioned in my testimony, I’d been a strong atheist (that is, actively disbelieved in the existence of God(s)) for 15 years. I wasn’t even curious about spiritual matters and knew absolutely nothing about Christianity. This experience came completely out of the blue. I discussed the situation with my wife who was, to say the least, surprised. But as ever, she was fully supportive of me and helped to find out about local churches and who to talk to. However my initial enthusiasm waned and thus began my long on and off relationship with Christianity.

 

About 5 years later I was doing some research at a British university (I’m a Computer Scientist by education but now work as a consultant in Sweden). I was very much into one of my “on” Christian phases and was actively involved in the work of the universities chaplaincy. I’d really rather not talk about this but it’s an important part of my journey. I became involved with a young undergraduate whom I had met at the chaplaincy. Although we never had a physical relationship we (well at least I did) felt we had a close spiritual relationship. Actually, it was all in my mind and she never even knew about my infatuation for a long time. The poor girl thought we were just friends and was very embarrassed when I finally told her, which was something my wife made me do. It was during this period that I became a member of the Catholic Church, which, surprise surprise, the young girl was a member of as well. To cut a long and shameful story short, the stress of professing the virtues of the Christian life whilst lusting after someone and at the same time trying to keep my marriage together was too much and I had a complete breakdown.

 

I don’t remember too much about the weeks I was in hospital (a combination of medication and a desire not to remember, perhaps) but I do remember keeping my faith intact. It probably saved my life. It was certainly the only thing I could focus on for long periods of time. Eventually I recovered (but full recovery took several years) and fell back into the old pattern of on and off Christianity (interspersed with periods of Buddhism and new age mumbo jumbo). But I had been changed by my breakdown and couldn’t understand how God could inflict such suffering. Not just on me but on the innocent victims such as my wife, the young woman and all those to whom I was extremely abusive to at that time. However hard I tried to reconcile Christianities inherent contradictions I just couldn’t do it. I tried so hard that at times I’ve needed medical intervention, although it’s only recently that we’ve recognised the relationship between my mental blips and the state of my faith. As I said before, Christianity is a fundamentally unhealthy religion, especially for intelligent people.

 

A few weeks ago I was in the middle of another one of my “on” phases when I had that conversation with my wife. You asked what she said that convinced me but unfortunately there isn’t a simple answer to that. It wasn’t so much what she said but that I was prepared to listen and respond intelligently. After all, if there is a God it gave me my intellect and expects me to use it rather than to follow blindly the thoughts and teachings of others. When I started looking again at my faith I discovered that I didn’t want to reconcile contradictions any more. In a sense I de-converted myself; my wife being the instrument I used in that process.

 

At 47 I am too old and too tired to play theological games anymore. I want to live in freedom rather than fear; in truth rather than dishonesty; in peace rather than spiritual war. Perhaps I had to become a Christian in order to fully understand the folly of such a choice. Whatever meaning (if any) the life of Yeshua ben Josef had has been so distorted first by Pauline theology and then by the church in general that it has been lost. As such it is meaningless to us today.

 

For the first time in many, many years I feel truly happy and content. For me Christianity wasn’t a helpful prop but a millstone around my neck. To be free of that burden is indeed a precious gift.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Ian

[liquid ash]

I want to live in freedom rather than fear; in truth rather than dishonesty; in peace rather than spiritual war.

 

 

It sucks being at war with yourself, even moreso then with others.

 

Do you think that a part of your back and forth was enjoying the mental exercize of carrying both sides?

[Guest digger]

It sucks being at war with yourself, even moreso then with others.

 

Do you think that a part of your back and forth was enjoying the mental exercize of carrying both sides?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting question. I don't think so but it's hard to be absolutely sure. One of the thing I do remember is actually wanting to be a literalist. I thought that if I could just believe (have total faith) in the way others do then I would be able to be at peace. Of course I could never do that because I read the bible with the critical eye of the historian and scientist. I guess I always knew that the christianity taught by churches was flawed but the christianity I practised was authentic because it allowed for doubt and was tolerant. That was an illusion created by the fear that I'd go to hell if I didn't worship and honour the name of Jesus. I guess I've been trying to break free of the illusion for years but have been unable to. Now I am free it feels so, so good.

[Cynical Realist]

At 47 I am too old and too tired to play theological games anymore. I want to live in freedom rather than fear; in truth rather than dishonesty; in peace rather than spiritual war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I posted my story here before and I totally understand the above quote. I just want some honesty and truth in life. Some freedom. I feel like I've found that now since I've let go of the christianity

 

Good story Ian.

 

Eric

[liquid ash]

Interesting question. I don't think so but it's hard to be absolutely sure. One of the thing I do remember is actually wanting to be a literalist. I thought that if I could just believe (have total faith) in the way others do then I would be able to be at peace. Of course I could never do that because I read the bible with the critical eye of the historian and scientist. I guess I always knew that the christianity taught by churches was flawed but the christianity I practised was authentic because it allowed for doubt and was tolerant. That was an illusion created by the fear that I'd go to hell if I didn't worship and honour the name of Jesus. I guess I've been trying to break free of the illusion for years but have been unable to. Now I am free it feels so, so good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, I'm no theologan buy a long shot. But as I distance myself from my Christian training I find that when I talk to my christian friends I sometimes fall into a pattern of discussing both angles right now to help sort things out in my mind.

 

Not only that, but my take on scripture verses has taken on a practical aspect of simply relating it to life as a whole. For instance, take those who are into Revelations prophecies. My intrepretation of a prophecy is that they are common patterns that repeat every so many generations and cultures. So they are no more prophetic then any other recurring pattern of life.

 

I think I'm retraining my mind this way. Taking things I learned from old and applying new things that I'm learning to create new patterns of thought. [i'm very interested in how the brain processes information, btw.]

 

I'm just wondering. Do you think this is a good way of approaching things or do you think that it is likely that I will repeat a similar pattern as yourself using this approach?

[Loren]

When I started looking again at my faith I discovered that I didn’t want to reconcile contradictions any more. In a sense I de-converted myself; my wife being the instrument I used in that process.

 

At 47 I am too old and too tired to play theological games anymore. I want to live in freedom rather than fear; in truth rather than dishonesty; in peace rather than spiritual war. Perhaps I had to become a Christian in order to fully understand the folly of such a choice.

 

For the first time in many, many years I feel truly happy and content. For me Christianity wasn’t a helpful prop but a millstone around my neck. To be free of that burden is indeed a precious gift.

 

Ian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I too (like many of us) had to study/think out the contradictions and uglier implications since I'd got to a point where it was either do that or shallowly accept or shallowly reject the faith. It wasn't really much of a choice, since I knew that if I took either of the shallower options, it would be pretty inevitable that some dark, solitary night my choice would come back to bite me.

 

But I definitely came to a point where further digging and handling of the concepts was redundant and fruitless. That point was when I realized that no matter what, I could now no longer choose to believe, even in the most liberal and loose ways. Once I passed that point, it was like repainting a house that I had just finished painting, a depressing excercise in tedium.

 

A (late) welcome to the site, Ian.

 

Loren

[pandora]

I too (like many of us) had to study/think out the contradictions and uglier implications since I'd got to a point where it was either do that or shallowly accept or shallowly reject the faith. It wasn't really much of a choice, since I knew that if I took either of the shallower options, it would be pretty inevitable that some dark, solitary night my choice would come back to bite me.

 

But I definitely came to a point where further digging and handling of the concepts was redundant and fruitless. That point was when I realized that no matter what, I could now no longer choose to believe, even in the most liberal and loose ways. Once I passed that point, it was like repainting a house that I had just finished painting, a depressing excercise in tedium. 

 

A (late) welcome to the site, Ian.

 

Loren

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can relate to your last paragraph. Choosing a belief based in faith can't happen when you aren't in that state of naivete anymore. I think that is the one thing many Christians can't understand about us... somehow, they allow themselves to choose to believe even though they know they can't know for sure. We, however, can't do that... we have a need to be intellectually honest with ourselves. We don't want to selfishly believe merely because of fear of hell.

 

A Christian believes either because he/she is naive and hasn't explored his or her doubt, or because he/she has explored and educated herself about the issues that give rise to doubt and simply decided to bet on Christianity "just in case." The more they have to do mind games to make something make sense, the more they think that proves how great god is. "God works in mysterious ways" they say. Most are just fed inaccurate information and pseudoscience. Others know that getting answers to their doubt would mean that they reject the faith, so they just purposefully leave that part of their brain in disconnect with the rest. They choose ignorance.