Bizarre atheists & the ACLU

[odintim]

Hello all,

 

I'm sure the majority of us all have serious issues to take up with fundamentalist and extreme religions / figures, i.e. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Louis Farakhan - however, no one seems to say a word to defend freethinkers when an atheist misrepresents us, or we get compared to some of the bizarre lawyers filing their out-of-this-world cases. Why?! Am I the only one that thinks we're largely misrepresented as a whole in the world - mainly the U.S. - surely there's more like me out there!

 

Honestly, we cannot be represented by one group or one organization - trying to herd atheists and freethinkers together is like herding cats. We can't all have the exact same view, nor should we just let groups like American Atheists or the ACLU speak for us all.

 

My 2 kroner,

 

OT

[Guest The Walking Fox]

Michael Newdow sure as hell pisses me off. I want to hit him with sticks every time i hear him. He's to atheism what Pat Robertson is to Christianity.

 

(Anf FTR, Louis Farrakhan isn't a "religious" leader, he's a cult leader. Look up the beleifs of the Nation of Islam. It's wacky!)

[Lycorth]

I can't help but agree. Athiest fundies having shitfits about someone singing a Xian song or mentioning God (even in the most non-Xian sense) really get under my skin. It's called live and let live - try it sometime. It's just as bad as religious fanatics who can't quit making a fuss - they've broken away from Xianity, now they have to be just as big a bunch of jerks as they probably were when they were Xians.

[Chad3232132]

Hello all,

 

I'm sure the majority of us all have serious issues to take up with fundamentalist and extreme religions / figures, i.e. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Louis Farakhan - however, no one seems to say a word to defend freethinkers when an atheist misrepresents us, or we get compared to some of the bizarre lawyers filing their out-of-this-world cases. Why?! Am I the only one that thinks we're largely misrepresented as a whole in the world - mainly the U.S. - surely there's more like me out there!

 

Honestly, we cannot be represented by one group or one organization - trying to herd atheists and freethinkers together is like herding cats. We can't all have the exact same view, nor should we just let groups like American Atheists or the ACLU speak for us all.

 

My 2 kroner,

 

OT

 

Well I'm not sure why you mentioned ACLU and Athiests in the same sentence. Yes, I'm sure Athiests make up a much larger % of ACLU members that athiests as a % of the American public, but I think I saw a poll that said more than half of ACLU members are actually religious, with most of those being Chriatians. I am a proud ACLU member, and have been for years. However I personally know quite a few libertarians and republicans who are ACLU members. It may be a secular dominated organization, but it is by no means Athiest. The fact is many quite conservative Americans joined the ACLU after President Bush started pushing measures such as the "Patriot Act" and other measures that curtail civil liberties.

[Java]

You obviously have no fucking idea what the ACLU is.

[Ro-bear]

I don't know any bizarre atheists. I like Michael Newdow. I support the A.C.L.U.

[Taphophilia]

I don't know any bizarre atheists. I like Michael Newdow. I support the A.C.L.U.

 

You're right about that. The people that I know who are so open minded their brains fall out are New Age Conspiracy Theorists. I think when you get exteme on either side reality goes out the window.

 

The ACLU does do a lot of good, though. I knew someone who worked there in New York. She said 99.99 percent of the letters they get complaining of Civil Libertys being violated are from wack jobs they file away and eventually destroy. They only act on .001 percent of the requests they recieve and out of those probably half are legitamate.

 

Taph

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I don't think the ACLU claims to be an atheist organization, and it certainly has a broad range of members that include christians, jews, muslims, etc.

 

The ACLU isn't always "against" religion - many of their actions are to force equal treatment of all religions, not to prevent appropriate religious expression (appropriate being defined by constitution and subsequent law).

 

As for Michael Newdow, I think he's doing the right thing. There is no reason the official pledge of allegiance to our flag should have a reference to a deity in it, nor should our money have "In God we Trust" printed on it. Taking those religious references off the money and out of the pledge does not say there are no gods - it just makes them neutral so that Americans of all religious faiths (and those of us without religious beliefs) can fully claim them as our own. Thank dog for Michael Newdow and his courage to stand up against incredible odds. We need more like him.

[odintim]

I did not say that the ACLU was an atheist organization, nor did deny that some of their deeds weren't good ones. My point was that some cases seemed pointless and beyond strange, and our fellow fundies of religion are going to pick up on that quicker than a fly on shit. Note that I said atheist organizations AND the ACLU. I apologize for not being clearer about that earlier. It was early and the coffee hadn't begun to work yet, so I'll keep in mind to wait for the caffeine to jumpstart my brain.

 

OT

[Guest bdp]

I don't know any bizarre atheists. I like Michael Newdow. I support the A.C.L.U.

 

Michael Newdow is an asshole who really needs to just drop dead.

 

bdp

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I don't know any bizarre atheists. I like Michael Newdow. I support the A.C.L.U.

 

Michael Newdow is an asshole who really needs to just drop dead.

 

bdp

Issues?

[nightflight]

I think he means atheists like the assholes who bitch about roadside crosses that people put up im memory of relatives who were killed.

[Ro-bear]

 

Michael Newdow is an asshole who really needs to just drop dead.

 

 

 

You seem angry. What, pray tell, has Newdow done to offend you?

[Chad3232132]

Since I've never even heard of this Newdow person (and I keep up well with the news), I doubt most Americans have either. So, I'd imagine whatever he does say doesn't hurt us athiests all that much.

[pitchu]

Imo, there are times when social issues reach a critical mass and it's no longer useful or meaningful (and, in fact, it may be dangerous) for certain dismissed and despised groups to keep a low profile for fear of being labeled "as wacko as their opponents".

 

I fear that as freethinkers, pagans, atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, etc., we're in or near that time.

 

If there were hundreds of visible and insistent Newdows it would be harder for the neo-con religious right to marginalize the issues for which he stands.

 

There's no telling how many more deaths from AIDS there would have been if not for the "wacko" antics of ACT-UP at a time when President Reagan refused even to utter the word, "AIDS".

 

And I only wish the ACLU were bigger and better-funded so that all righteous wackos might have a fighting chance.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Imo, there are times when social issues reach a critical mass and it's no longer useful or meaningful (and, in fact, it may be dangerous) for certain dismissed and despised groups to keep a low profile for fear of being labeled "as wacko as their opponents".

 

I fear that as freethinkers, pagans, atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, etc., we're in or near that time.

 

If there were hundreds of visible and insistent Newdows it would be harder for the neo-con religious right to marginalize the issues for which he stands.

 

There's no telling how many more deaths from AIDS there would have been if not for the "wacko" antics of ACT-UP at a time when President Reagan refused even to utter the word, "AIDS".

 

And I only wish the ACLU were bigger and better-funded so that all righteous wackos might have a fighting chance.

 

 

 

I definitely agree with this sentiment. Where I live, we could use more freethinkers, because the gods know there's too many conservatives who think that liberal=evil. I've been 'corrected' several times this month for saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," because I've obviously been "reading those liberal papers" and ignoring the true meaning of December: Christian Ownership. There's apparently no such thing as Hannukah, Kwanzaa (though who actually celebrates it? ), Winter Solstice, or any other holidays during this month, just Christmas and only Christmas and who are these Jewish people anyway?

Honest-to-shit. If someone wants to say "Merry Christmas" because they're Christian, and I want to reply "Happy Holidays" because I'm an athiest, does it bloody matter? Does it matter if they say "Happy Hannukah"? Of course fucking not. The freedom to chose is what we're supposed to have in America, not this bullshittery of neo-cons raping every potential holiday for themselves. Michael Newdow is my man, and I hope he keeps pissing them off.

[spamandham]

Imo, there are times when social issues reach a critical mass and it's no longer useful or meaningful (and, in fact, it may be dangerous) for certain dismissed and despised groups to keep a low profile for fear of being labeled "as wacko as their opponents".

 

I agree, and I think that the time is here or fast approaching. The religious right have become dangerously political in the last decade or so. We can no longer afford to politely allow them to live their delusions in peace. The current Emporer's father was quoted as saying he didn't even consider atheists to be citizens since this is 'one nation under god'. We can fix that oversight for him.

 

It's time to strip all religious references from government and crack down on the Christian control freaks trying to simultaneously ignite Armageddon and to reinstitute opressions long ago discarded. Newdow may well be seen in the same fond light as Rosa Parks some decades from now.