SallySang Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hi, Growing up in the West, Christianity seems to permeate most institutions, workplaces, etc. but I was never "initiated" into the mysteries of the Church and went my way, instead, to Buddhism due to my interest in meditation, the question of how things exist, etc. I found a "guru" and had a hellish time for 10 years. It was very abusive and I developed depression, anxiety, etc. This "guru" never initiated me, either. After that, I left Buddhism for about 7 years and restarted about 2 and a half years ago. It has, again, been hellish. A year or so into that 2 and a half years I had such a traumatic experience that I am still suffering some form of PTSD related to that experience (triggers, irrational reactions, etc.) I did not, yet again, get initiated into the mysteries of the "church" (of Buddhism). I received only the instructions for how to meditate (it was one of the slowest, most arduous tasks I have ever undertaken - it was hell on earth trying to get those instructions due to having to decode everything). Even worse, I only got the full instructions after about 1 year and 4 months, which intensified the suffering immensely. They could have helped me an incredible amount by giving the proper, full instructions, but they did not. Once having obtained (the partial) instructions, I tried, over the course of the year and 4 months to practise them. I failed miserably and got much vitriol, hatred, and abuse for doing so, even though, of course, this was not intentional. I was extremely unhappy. I had intense anger, rage, depression, despair ... it was hell on earth. I became suicidal, many times, and my physical health deteriorated to the point where I could hardly walk. I knew that this was unsustainable. I could not continue like this. If I continued in this path, there was only one outcome: death, and imminently. So, about a month ago, I ceased contact with them and as many of their triggers as I could, and started to feel much, much better. Foolishly, feeling better, I thought I would try their meditation again, and those 3 days led me right back to anxiety, depression, and despair. The contrast with the preceding month was radical. So, here I am. I have again given it up and cut all contact with them. I feel frightened of them and their doctrines. I want them to leave me alone. And I'm trying to make sense of my experience. Can anyone relate? Thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Sounds typical of most religions.........the use of power, guilt, shame, coercion, and emotional dysfunction to control and addict one to the practice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Have you considered living without religion? Simply don't waste you time on any of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 20, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2013 If you stop hitting yourself with the hammer, the pain will eventually go away. Stay away from the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 You have the right to your emotions, and what you are going through is understandable considering what you just told us. If you haven't already please get in touch with a reputable, licensed therapist and get the help you need. They might be able to help you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Clearly, you should stay away from Buddhism. I can only say that my experience of Buddhism is very different than yours. I have had my problems with it, being western, but still remain in it. Instruction is hard to come by, since there are not many good teachers in the West. If it is causing suffering, you must stop continuing on with that group you are in. If they are harassing you in any way, then the law should be called into it. Obviously not all schools of Buddhism are the same and certainly not all teachers are the same. I also don't lump all religions together and say they are all the same when clearly they are not. But I also know that abuse occurs in every religion, and Buddhism is no exception. That is a fact. The only thing one can do is be very careful. Its up to you whether or not you continue on your own study of Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallySang Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Thank you for all of your kind and understanding responses. Edit: I decided to edit this as I think I was overwrought at the time of writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Obviously we are not in possession of all the facts here. Best of luck to you SallySang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Thank you for all of your kind and understanding responses. I am concerned that now that I am no longer trying to fulfil their demands that I try to meditate, that I may be in danger as the individuals involved are very influential, wealthy, and have much power. (It is no use going to the Police, for example, as the individuals are placed much higher than the Police in terms of authority and the Police also support them). There is an additional component which some may not find credible, but which I have found to be incontrovertible in my own experience, that the individuals involved also possess one of the results of meditation, which is clairvoyance. This may mean that it is impossible to escape their detection or effect an "escape" from their their scrutiny and attempted control. I am aware that this may be greeted with skepticism, but clairvoyance is the most common result of meditation in Buddhism and is considered quite normal. I am only relating my own experience and accepted Buddhist doctrine. So, I feel somewhat afraid of these individuals since they are influential, controlling, and, to date, harmful to my physical and mental health. I am still assessing what to do about this/how to proceed now with my life. Thanks again for all of your kind advice. Much appreciated. Have they knocked on your door? Do they call you on the phone? Do they bother you at work? Unless you have verified their physical presence stalking you this just may be an obsession or other irrational fear and a psychologist may be able to help rid you of this problem. If they are wealthy, influential and powerful why would they be bothered with you? Do you spend an excessive amount of time with meditation/spiritual pursuits? Maybe you need to spend more time doing physical activities. Find balance between these different levels of existence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Thank you for all of your kind and understanding responses. I am concerned that now that I am no longer trying to fulfil their demands that I try to meditate, that I may be in danger as the individuals involved are very influential, wealthy, and have much power. (It is no use going to the Police, for example, as the individuals are placed much higher than the Police in terms of authority and the Police also support them). There is an additional component which some may not find credible, but which I have found to be incontrovertible in my own experience, that the individuals involved also possess one of the results of meditation, which is clairvoyance. This may mean that it is impossible to escape their detection or effect an "escape" from their their scrutiny and attempted control. I am aware that this may be greeted with skepticism, but clairvoyance is the most common result of meditation in Buddhism and is considered quite normal. I am only relating my own experience and accepted Buddhist doctrine. So, I feel somewhat afraid of these individuals since they are influential, controlling, and, to date, harmful to my physical and mental health. I am still assessing what to do about this/how to proceed now with my life. Thanks again for all of your kind advice. Much appreciated. Wow, it's amazing to think that this sort of power exists in individuals in the UK! I will say this: it may be accepted Buddhist doctrine that people become clairvoyant, but that doesn't make it so. They may have a lot of people who are good at locating people who try to escape their cult, but that makes them thugs and gangsters. I know that, anywhere in the world, there are situations where the police cannot help, simply because they can't be everywhere at once. I would hope that this cult would eventually be shut down and the leaders arrested and imprisoned. That doesn't mean you should risk your own life to see that done. It sounds like your best hope is probably to find a way to move to another city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Wow... it sounds like you're in a real doozy of a cult. Perhaps you can seek professional help to assist you with breaking free of their mind control. Feel free to vent on here, many can relate. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 By professional help, I mean a counselor or psychologist, by the way. This group seems rather extreme. I have studied Buddhism and have never heard of psychic powers being developed in people who meditate in just the right way and for long enough, at least not in the more sane Western forms. Have you Googled the name of your group with the term "cult" to see if there are any resources out there for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 It is no use going to the Police, for example, as the individuals are placed much higher than the Police in terms of authority and the Police also support them. Critical question here, Sally: Do you know this from your own experiences with the Police, or did one of the cult members tell you this to scare you out of calling the Police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is the first time I've ever heard something negative about Buddhism. I, until just now, always thought they were a gentle, peaceful group. Never knew about any abuse going on in there. Guess you learn something new every day. Never thought of them as a religion, either. Or heard them being called a church. They don't even have a deity, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 When I talked to you today I thought of this song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Fweethawt, there are plenty of Buddhist cults all over the world. Wacky is not confined to religions with gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resilient Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 What did they do to prove that they were clairvoyant? Maybe we can help you find out if that was an elaborate charade to get you under their control. People have been looking for creditable proof for the paranormal, in fact James Randi is offering a million dollars to anyone who can prove it and no one, though many renowned psycics have tried, has been able to prove it. Control being the name of the game, they needed you to believe this and no doubt had some foolproof method that they found works with most people that maybe we can put our heads together and find out how they accomplished this. I have had the unfortunate history of being involved with a Christian cult for 2 years. For me and my friends involved, the leader, a very charismatic evangelist/pastor we were introduced to and later worked with, right away got our attention by being very sympathetic with our troubles with our home church and befriended us quickly with offers that we could work with him in his very powerful ministry. He gave us love and appreciation we weren't getting at home while offering us positions of power in his ministry. I know this is unlike your situation, except for the offer of power and authority which we have in common. This is why they wanted you to believe they were clairvoyant, so that they could play on your need for power. Why they didn't deliver on the goods, is probably because they didn't have them. They can't deliver what they don't have. But your belief that they were clairvoyant kept you very interested and kept you very controllable. Also, telling you that they were in a position of higher authority than the police would help them by 1) increasing your association of them with power 2) trying to get you to value that power and want it for yourself 3) establishing their control over you better by telling you how helpless you were 4) finally in the unfortunate event they were found out, or that they abused you, to cover their asses when the shit hit the fan. Cults promise you power, but they work to make you powerless. They operate using scripts down to every detail, like used car dealers only masters of strategy, they know just what to play you with. They have had plenty of practice with other people so they know how to control your reactions and drive you further toward their goals. They keep you second guessing yourself, but give you no time to think and plenty of reasons why they are right. They want to keep your emotions in high gear because that is when your brain is disengaged. Logic and reason are their enemies. They forced me into an abusive situation where they made themselves on a plane just below God, but definitely above me, all the while promising me the power they had. They made outrageous claims that I shouldn't have believed, only I was just so caught up emotionally that I wasn't thinking straight. If I had had time to think, I would have figured it out for myself, but they just kept me on an emotional rollercoaster until I had given all my power over to them desperately hoping for that power they had promised me. I didn't know at the time that it was all about power. They did a great time disguising that aspect of it. They were helping me be more pleasing to God in my framework of this. I had no idea what was really going on. If I knew I was seeking power I would have been ashamed of myself. I just wanted self improvement so I could do good for others and be pleasing to God, but they did an excellent job of keeping me clueless. This may sound familiar or it may not. If it does, I hope I have helped you. I ended up going to the police. I needed the police involvement to to get away from them. And because I wanted them to pay. I also would have been ashamed I wanted the revenge of making things rough on them, but I didn't realize my motivations at the time. Like I said though, I needed the police to get away from them. In my case I was far from home when this came to a head, far from help and very powerless. They knew what they were doing. I am sorry this has been going on for so long for you. With time to think, this will all unravel in your mind. It will go a lot faster if you get a therapist. I suggest you do this. They can look at this with fresh eyes and help be some reason and logic for you. That is what you need - that and time. Rez 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resilient Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 oh, and by the way, it just so happens I have many illnesses that have fear based triggers and I have been in a wheel chair, or walked with a cane at times. This can be very debilitating. Right now I am so bound up in fear, I am in counseling, myself, learning how to function, between this cult and the general mind fuck Christianity is. I hope you feel better soon Rez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallySang Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Thanks for all your replies. I'm already feeling much better after spending time on this site! Well, I suppose the clairvoyance issue, if they do have it, there's not much I can do about it. I'm not clairvoyant so I can't hear their thoughts, anyway. This means that if I just go about my daily life without seeing them or reading their literature, I won't receive any influence from them. That's what I have been doing, and it is working well. I am already feeling much better. I think I'm doing well, and I should just keep on going as I have been. Thanks, guys! About the pursuit of power as a motive, I think that is a great question. Perhaps the pursuit, also, of altered states of consciousness and realisations are a motive. I also genuinely want to develop my good qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Wow, Rez, that was an interesting read! Some of that same crap happened to me, but never obvious or severe enough to warrant calling the authorities. (But I do think about that sometimes and wish I had a better legal angle to make them pay.) Thanks for sharing your experience. What a mess! As for the OP, I agree with other posters here that the power they have convinced you that they have is probably not real. From now on, if they contact you in any way, keep a log of it. Write down the date and time and nature of the discussion. Keep all phone messages, texts, emails, letters. If they claim to know things about you clairvoyantly, make note of that. Is it just a coincidence or a good guess? They may try stuff like, "We have seen you crying in your room at night." That's a pretty obvious assumption, and no clairvoyance is needed. Or something like, "We know you are lonely" or some other obvious stuff. Don't fall for it. Step outside of it and ask someone else (or even ask yourself) if this could be real or just experienced mind-control guesses. Make note of all these claims. I don't know if this would legally be considered harassing you or messing with your mind, but maybe enough stuff would prove a pattern of fucking with you or stalking you or whatever. In my experience, once you break free and they realize you are not coming around for more of their nonsense, they will dust you off and move on to the next easy prey. They are probably not losing sleep over losing you. If you are losing sleep over them, you are giving them power they do not deserve. They are sleeping well, and so should you. Promising you the gift of clairvoyance for jumping through their hoops is similar to the way Christians promise that if we work hard enough we will be able to hear the voice of God and be able to know and follow God's will -- like they can. I have come to realize that if they truly had this "gift" they would not be acting like the manipulative, insincere, insecure, power-hungry, egomaniacal assholes that they are. If they were truly filled with the Holy Spirit and the love of Christ, they would be much better people than they are. Step away, my dear. Get a fresh perspective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is the first time I've ever heard something negative about Buddhism. I, until just now, always thought they were a gentle, peaceful group. Never knew about any abuse going on in there. Guess you learn something new every day. Never thought of them as a religion, either. Or heard them being called a church. They don't even have a deity, do they? Buddhism is about as varied as Christianity. Yes, unfortunately there is also abuse. I think someone actually tried to form a Buddhist Church in California that is actually called a "church" but most of what we have in the west are called "Dharma Centers". The question of whether its a religion or not is batted back and forth because there is no deity involved, at least nothing like the Christian idea of god. Personally, I think it is, but it does depend on your idea of what "religion" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallySang Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Thanks for your responses and encouragements. I reckon I will get better and better, the more time passes minus contact. "I have come to realize that if they truly had this "gift" they would not be acting like the manipulative, insincere, insecure, power-hungry, egomaniacal assholes that they are. If they were truly filled with the Holy Spirit and the love of Christ, they would be much better people than they are." - Yes, I thought so, too. If this is the result of practising religion, why would I want to practise religion, if I would become like them? It's not an attractive prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker001 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is the first time I've ever heard something negative about Buddhism. I, until just now, always thought they were a gentle, peaceful group. Never knew about any abuse going on in there. Guess you learn something new every day. Never thought of them as a religion, either. Or heard them being called a church. They don't even have a deity, do they? Buddhism is about as varied as Christianity. Yes, unfortunately there is also abuse. I think someone actually tried to form a Buddhist Church in California that is actually called a "church" but most of what we have in the west are called "Dharma Centers". The question of whether its a religion or not is batted back and forth because there is no deity involved, at least nothing like the Christian idea of god. Personally, I think it is, but it does depend on your idea of what "religion" means. I'd also like to add that a group doesn't have to be involved in any form of religion to be a cult. Where there are still grand promises of being the only way to enlightenment, recovery, salvation, or whatever it is one is trying to achieve. There are recovery groups that can be considered a cult, which is why it is important to be careful where you go to seek help. These days I think of doubt as being ones natural defense against bullshit. Any group that makes you feel inferior or stupid avoid, get as far away as possible. This has some good information on cults: http://www.sossobriety.org/cults.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallySang Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 "Any group that makes you feel inferior or stupid avoid, get as far away as possible. " Great advice! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallySang Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Now I am helping an ex-c member write a comedy version of the Bible This is fun Ex-C is very good for recovery from religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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