Lerk Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Makes me want to scream! My wife was watching Bill Wiese videos earlier. Bill Wiese is a guy who dreamed about Jesus taking him to visit hell. Only he doesn't think it was a dream, he thinks it really happened. It changed his life, and now he goes around the country scaring people. She actually bought a book and DVD at WalMart a few years ago. I was still a Christian back then, but people in Churches of Christ usually don't believe this kind of crap. It really affected her, though. She mentioned it to one of our sons at the time and his response was "well, if it helps you see that it's a real place I guess it's okay." In other words, he didn't believe it and was trying to be nice about it. The problem is this stuff freaks her out. She's terrified of hell. Drives me crazy! She's not supposed to believe in modern prophets, she's a Church of Christer! I didn't say anything, I just went outside and did a few chores. Don't know why I'm posting about it, except that I needed to vent, so the "rants" board seemed to be a good place to do it. The website is http://www.soulchoiceministries.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The mind seeks to confirm what it wants to believe. You have my sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SciWalker Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Tell her hell isn't a Christian concept. As has already been discussed on other recent threads, it was imported into xtianity, in Medieval times from eastern mysticism. If she believes in hell, she's obviously with the devil :-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 20, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrPpw8A_-xY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Oh brother. My mom was telling me about the kid who went to heaven. Fortunately, it was a phone call, so she couldn't see my eyes roll. I've done a lot of reading in the area of neurotheology and I think the brain can do all kinds of weird stuff. Does that mean it happened? No. Did it change that person's life, though? You bet. Whether it's real or not has no bearing on the mind--it believes what it wants to. I feel for you! That would be a tough situation to be in....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Tell her hell isn't a Christian concept. As has already been discussed on other recent threads, it was imported into xtianity, in Medieval times from eastern mysticism. If she believes in hell, she's obviously with the devil :-).What do you mean?, can you go into it a little more detail. (Post relevant links) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosiahTheAxeman Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I hate that shit! My mom believes hell is literally inside the earth, below its crust. Even when I was a Xtian I couldn't believe that nonsense. And my mom is one of the smartest people I know so I don't know how she hasn't realized the fallacy of religion and become an atheist. Religion still relies primarily on fear and superstition to prod the sheep in the direction it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I hate that shit! My mom believes hell is literally inside the earth, below its crust. Even when I was a Xtian I couldn't believe that nonsense. And my mom is one of the smartest people I know so I don't know how she hasn't realized the fallacy of religion and become an atheist. Religion still relies primarily on fear and superstition to prod the sheep in the direction it wants.The fear of suffering can screw up your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle2Step Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This was a big issue for me for a while since I listened to Bill Wiese as a christian.. I could be wrong but apparently there's another lady who saw hell too who I'm told goes to the same church as Bill.. I've watched both their videos on hell and they strangely contradict each other on a couple points... Even if he did go to hell. I'm amazed he seemed to never once question the goodness of God through that experience.. As far as the kid who went to heaven(if its the same kid I'm thinking of), he's sixteen or seventeen now and has no recollection of the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I heard an hilaripus interview with Bill Wiese on the Sunday Night Safran radio show. You can get the podcast of it from the website, I highly recommend it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SciWalker Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 There are some remarkable stories of NDEs but I shan't give further details as I know I will be subjected to abuse (including vehement suggestions as to what my theological beliefs are) if I do. It's up to you to use Google. One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. But I am not here to persuade people. One other point: I have never understood how anyone can sit and listen uncritically to a guy who has a passion for getting up on a stage with a microphone, in front of a massive audience all whipped up into a trance of his creation, to present a feverish exhibition of weird histrionics. Such people have always seemed creepy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 There are some remarkable stories of NDEs but I shan't give further details as I know I will be subjected to abuse (including vehement suggestions as to what my theological beliefs are) if I do. It's up to you to use Google. One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. But I am not here to persuade people. ... Assume I'm dead for 7 days like your example. Then I'm revived and claim I spent 7 days in cat heaven. The entire 7 days of memory can happen in a few seconds of real time either before or after the temporary brain death. The more interesting evidence for me is when the dead person seems to have clairvoyance. For example, I watched a video of a man who was assassinated by the KGB (almost) and claimed to have communicated with a baby in another hospital room. That's interesting if it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 ... One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. ... Evidence please. Mere assertions are tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 ... One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. ... Evidence please. Mere assertions are tiresome. Assertions ARE evidence, silly. Besides, it was on the internet, so it's true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Tell her hell isn't a Christian concept. As has already been discussed on other recent threads, it was imported into xtianity, in Medieval times from eastern mysticism. If she believes in hell, she's obviously with the devil :-).What do you mean?, can you go into it a little more detail. (Post relevant links). I don't think that's quite right. It was imported into Judaism when they were in Persian captivity, so the Christians started out with it, at least from what I've been reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaLeah Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I had an out of body experience (OBE) post surgery that was pretty amazing too. It was one heck of a drug trip. It was meaningful to me, but I know it was just my brain tripping out. Once I delved into OBEs and NDEs and read through a bunch of collected accounts, I saw how much they were influenced by people's already pre-conceived ideas about the afterlife. Some people imagined Jesus or aliens or dead relatives, but it pretty much fit their own expectations... or it was pretty dream-trippy. Yes, it feels SUPER REAL while it's happening. But it isn't. The brain is capable of amazing things. Hallucinations are fascinating. The mind is a complex thing. But visions are just chemicals in the brain and neurons over-firing and making us perceive things that aren't really there. Neuroscientists can actually induce them with electrical stimulation to the brain. They feel just as real and meaningful to people who have them artificially induced. Just saying..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 One guy was dead for 7 days ... Wow. So he's like twice the jesus that jesus ever was. I'm going to worship this new improved guy. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 ... One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. ... Evidence please. Mere assertions are tiresome. I believe this is what he is referring to: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/07/proof-of-heaven-a-doctor-s-experience-with-the-afterlife.html It should be noted that the guy was in a coma for seven days while that part of his brain was inactive; he was not dead. The story itself is very iffy. Half way through, I was starting to wonder if he was misdiagnosed or making it up (something that usually only attacks newborns is suddenly attacking this adult man and conveniently the part of his brain that allows for these experiences is inactive?). And whose to say that part of his brain was actually inactive or some of it wasn't active? There obviously had to be SOMETHING active if he was having thoughts and dreams, etc during his coma state instead of a complete fadeout. Also, looks like a commenter on that page found a debunking page for this specific story: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/07/proof-heaven-author-debunked/66772/#comment-949775180 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 There are some remarkable stories of NDEs but I shan't give further details as I know I will be subjected to abuse (including vehement suggestions as to what my theological beliefs are) if I do. It's up to you to use Google. One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. But I am not here to persuade people. One other point: I have never understood how anyone can sit and listen uncritically to a guy who has a passion for getting up on a stage with a microphone, in front of a massive audience all whipped up into a trance of his creation, to present a feverish exhibition of weird histrionics. Such people have always seemed creepy to me. The bolded is what opens you up to criticism. Making a statement and then not backing up that statement even when asked and basically telling the questioner to go look it up is both lazy and arrogant. As shocking as it seems, I agree with the italicized. That is part of the reason I left christianity. It just became a show to me. Not really even that entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 There are some remarkable stories of NDEs but I shan't give further details as I know I will be subjected to abuse (including vehement suggestions as to what my theological beliefs are) if I do. It's up to you to use Google. One guy was dead for 7 days and the region of his brain that was supposed to be responsible for emitting the chemicals that, for the rationalist, supposedly generate the NDE was completely shut down. But I am not here to persuade people. One other point: I have never understood how anyone can sit and listen uncritically to a guy who has a passion for getting up on a stage with a microphone, in front of a massive audience all whipped up into a trance of his creation, to present a feverish exhibition of weird histrionics. Such people have always seemed creepy to me. You do realize that it is fundamental that you get oxygen to your brain to stay "alive" right? You don't have to persuade anyone all you have to do is provide links to proof of your claim. I can come on here and say some dude was in space without a space suit for three hours and lived but that seems as unlikely without proof as anyone being dead for seven days and then after being anything but dead for you know... every other day after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Hey, while I was trying to research vegetarianism on this site, I ALSO happened by THIS thread, which addresses the claim being made as well (how ironic). http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/53988-top-neurosurgeon-%E2%80%98spent-six-days-in-heaven%E2%80%99-during-a-coma/page-14 But, yes, you can't make claims and expect others to research it. But I did. I used Google and everything. And those claims can't stand on their own, a lot of people in the comments are even able to to debunk it on that very page or have links where the story is disputed; also further research shows that the doctor had been put in a chemically induced coma and a doctor on duty reported he was conscious but delirious for several days. The doctors can't even agree in totality on this NDE. But, hey, at the very least, it made him some money (at least 2 million copies of his book sold). (No idea what any of it has to do with vegetarianism, I was just trying to see if there were any vegetarians on the site and get some advice) If I were still a Christian, I probably would have attributed this coincidence to God; now it's just dumb luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosiahTheAxeman Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (No idea what any of it has to do with vegetarianism, I was just trying to see if there were any vegetarians on the site and get some advice) If I were still a Christian, I probably would have attributed this coincidence to God; now it's just dumb luck. I just started a vegan diet last week! Trying to see how this works out for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (No idea what any of it has to do with vegetarianism, I was just trying to see if there were any vegetarians on the site and get some advice) If I were still a Christian, I probably would have attributed this coincidence to God; now it's just dumb luck. I just started a vegan diet last week! Trying to see how this works out for me. Out of curiosity, where are you getting your protein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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