Fear Of Hell - Please Argue Me Down.

[SciWalker]

Hell, for a long time was conceived as a freezing cold place. Listen to this discussion, among scholars, of hell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038xb6

Chill out!!

[SciWalker]

 A five year old in a kindergarten class who does not believe in Santa is not going to have a difficult time convincing his classmates that Santa is a myth. The Santa meme is very powerful in the mind of a believing child.

 

The word Santa is reckoned by some to be related to the word Satan (its anagram). Likewise Saturn, origin of Saturday (the Sabbath).

I know a bit more about this, but shall leave you to research it. We've all got Google :-).

[SciWalker]

 

 A five year old in a kindergarten class who does not believe in Santa is not going to have a difficult time convincing his classmates that Santa is a myth. The Santa meme is very powerful in the mind of a believing child.

 

The word Santa is reckoned by some to be related to the word Satan (its anagram). Likewise Saturn, origin of Saturday (the Sabbath).

I know a bit more about this, but shall leave you to research it. We've all got Google :-).

 

 

Same (well, this particular one [though not the next one, about 'dog', which I actually got from a researcher] is my own conjecture) with 'lived' as the backwards spelling of devil ('live', backwards, is 'evil'), and more likely -- via astrology -- 'dog' as the backward spelling of God, which appears to be linked to the Canus (=dog) Major constellation (which is the origin of 'dog days' in summer). There was a Dog God, see :-).

There's a lot more of all this sort of thing -- the subtle insertion into language of religiously subversive ideas -- if you go looking for it. Jordan Maxwell (worth seeking out on Youtube) is the best knowledge, I believe.

Note that the Freemasons like all this backwards stuff, as part of their idea of subverting all things that are generally held to be good.

PS Please ignore the 'Authentic Christian Believer' thing against my name. I didn't put it there.

[SciWalker]

 

 

 A five year old in a kindergarten class who does not believe in Santa is not going to have a difficult time convincing his classmates that Santa is a myth. The Santa meme is very powerful in the mind of a believing child.

 

The word Santa is reckoned by some to be related to the word Satan (its anagram). Likewise Saturn, origin of Saturday (the Sabbath).

I know a bit more about this, but shall leave you to research it. We've all got Google :-).

 

 

Same (well, this particular one [though not the next one, about 'dog', which I actually got from a researcher] is my own conjecture) with 'lived' as the backwards spelling of devil ('live', backwards, is 'evil'), and more likely -- via astrology -- 'dog' as the backward spelling of God, which appears to be linked to the Canus (=dog) Major constellation (which is the origin of 'dog days' in summer). There was a Dog God, see :-).

There's a lot more of all this sort of thing -- the subtle insertion into language of religiously subversive ideas -- if you go looking for it. Jordan Maxwell (worth seeking out on Youtube) is the best knowledge, I believe.

Note that the Freemasons like all this backwards stuff, as part of their idea of subverting all things that are generally held to be good.

 

Love, backwards, is evol  -- uncomfortably close to 'evil'.

[SciWalker]

Words with 'el' in them, 'hELl', 'angEL', 'EmmanuEL', and many others, including 'ELect' and 'ELite' are claimed by those who follow Jordan Maxwell and David Icke's interpretation all to be linked to El, the Saturn god (Saturn is the ringed planet [NB. Lord of the Rings]), himself the god of darkness. Also, the letter 'L' represents the right-angle, crucial to geometry. The 'el' I know to be an ancient unit of measurement that was used throughout Europe for centuries, but strangely very little is written on the subject. Systematic measurement came from the Babylonians, the origin of Freemasonry.

[SciWalker]

PS The Norse-mythological 'Frigg', the origin of Friday, is related to the word frigid, and also the modern slang 'frig'. Friggin' 'ell! We're onto something!

[owen652]

I got the Nan Yielding book, it's a really good overview

[SciWalker]

Words with 'el' in them, 'hELl', 'angEL', 'EmmanuEL', and many others, including 'ELect' and 'ELite' are claimed by those who follow Jordan Maxwell and David Icke's interpretation all to be linked to El, the Saturn god (Saturn is the ringed planet [NB. Lord of the Rings]), himself the god of darkness. Also, the letter 'L' represents the right-angle, crucial to geometry. The 'el' I know to be an ancient unit of measurement that was used throughout Europe for centuries, but strangely very little is written on the subject. Systematic measurement came from the Babylonians, the origin of Freemasonry.

 

And let's not forget IsraEL And less overtly religious words like ELevate, and the interestingly palindromic levEL. And possibly the name MichaEL,

[RipVanWinkle]

I am reading a book entitled "Shattered Scriptures" by Linda J. Patterson which you can get at Amazon. It covers the history of hell which I believe you will find helpful.bill

[SciWalker]

But then again, hardcore Satanists tend not to believe in he devil. Satan (at least in one etymological interpretation) is derived from the word chaos; Satanism is rendered by them as the 'worship' of the chaotic element of the cosmos, as brought out through sex.

[par4dcourse]

This thread brought back memories of my church of god pastor. Veins popping on his forehead, sweat pouring, he would slam his bible down and yell "a literally burning hell." The little old ladies would be ooooing, and the rest amening. I was just a kid, and it scared the shit outta me.

No wonder I'm so screwed up.

[R. S. Martin]

 

ChristianGuy, if I may be so bold: What is your motivation for bringing this up? Are you hoping that our debate and evidence will be weak enough to allow you to continue in your faith? Or are you in the last ditch phase of finally losing your religion, and you want reassurance that you are heading in the right direction?

 

It may seem like a minor point of difference to you, but it matters to me (and others, I would assume). No offense, but if your answer is the first scenario I presented, then you have been sufficiently answered above, in my opinion, and I am not interested wasting my breath in this little game. If, however, your answer is the latter, then I am more inclined to add my 2¢ to ease your fears as you travel this difficult journey.

 

I don't mean to sound cold-hearted, I am just not interested in debating Christians. If, however, you are de-converting, I'm totally with you.

 

I hope you understand. Peace to you on your journey, whatever that may be.

 

Yeah,  I understand where you are coming from - I am de-converting I told my Pastor where to go etc and that I would not be back to the money making scheme. 

 

The reason is because I am so worried that I will goto Hell I have became very depressed and borderline hopeless.  I know deep down all the Arguements for God but I think some of this is deep programming giving me a 'What If' type of approach.

 

E.g. Everything is great and fine (but what if God Exists and Hell Exists)

 

So I keep reasoning myself down but at the same time I need help to really nail home the belief that the bible is false.   For some reason I keep getting a What-If sort of answer.

 

I keep thinking : (Christians Say X - There is no evidence to support this)  / (Non Christians Say that X, Y and Z in Christianity comes from Sources A, B and C)  I know that non christians are correct but it feels deep down that I am having a problem locking this belief.  E.g. when I start beliving then the doubts come.

 

I know people who take years but I need a path to start down,  I knew arguments against God when I started reading the bible 5 years ago but for some reason im finding it difficult to rid myself of the belief of God and Hell completely.

 

Any suggestions would help

 

 

It sounds to me like you've started. My suggestion is to look up the links and books people listed. Collect all the information you can. Let it percolate. Don't worry too much about feelings of fear of hell. Focus on finding the truth and let these troublesome feelings look after themselves. If they're too bad and you can find a good counselor who respects you as a person (rather than promotes religion) it might help deal with irrational fear. There's something called cognitive behavioral therapy that helps some people deal with phobias, etc.

[Fernweh]

 

 A five year old in a kindergarten class who does not believe in Santa is not going to have a difficult time convincing his classmates that Santa is a myth. The Santa meme is very powerful in the mind of a believing child.

 

The word Santa is reckoned by some to be related to the word Satan (its anagram). Likewise Saturn, origin of Saturday (the Sabbath).

I know a bit more about this, but shall leave you to research it. We've all got Google :-).

 

 

This may sound crazy but sometimes a word is just a word. Also, what in the world does this anagram rant have to do with the OP?

[SciWalker]

"what in the world does this anagram rant have to do with the OP?"

 

Just making a point about how language parallels religious teaching, in that it is riddled with subversion and grafting of ideas one upon another, all in the name of prevailing agenda, to the extent that that the truth of these matters becomes unrecoverable.

[RenaissanceWoman]

Hey, ChristianGuy, thanks for clarifying. I'm happy for you that you are on this journey, even though it kinda sucks for you right now. It will get better!

 

There is another fairly recent thread here about hell, from a slightly different angle. You might find some inspiration there too, if you haven't already read it. Look under Ex-Christian Life, maybe the third page back, a thread titled "Deep Fear of Hell."

 

There was another thread where I posted this response to a young man with fears of hell. Just because I've already spelled it out once, I'm taking the lazy way out (lol) and copy-and-pasting it here for you:

 

"As for God damning you for not believing, this is how I think about it to soothe my own worried mind: God (assuming he turns out to be real, which I don't think so, but just for argument's sake) is loving and forgiving, right? God gave us free will and told us to test everything, and seek knowledge. So that is what I am doing. He has placed crazy things in my life to push me away from religion, and has offered me no guidance or comfort to deal with it. I think I had done everything the "good book" prescribes for trying to "get right" and pray and fast and all that stuff -- but he still ignored my prayers. I think God has to take this into consideration when he "judges" me -- He gave me an exceptional and curious mind, threw a bunch of obstacles in my path, then abandoned me. If he loves me and is so forgiving, he damn well better give me the benefit of the doubt. I tried my best, but the brain and emotions he gave me contradicted the other stuff. How is that my fault?

 

But then again, God is jealous and vengeful, so he may just damn me for the sheer joy of it. But God is love. (sarcasm)

 

If you are really concerned about hell, perhaps you should look into other religions and see what their hell is all about. I hear, for example, that the Islamic hell is worse than the Christian hell, so maybe you should bow to that god instead to make sure you don't get sent to that hell. See how silly that sounds? I'm not trying to add to your fear -- I'm just saying, it's all baloney.

 

Then there is "the problem of evil." Volumes have been written about this. If God is all-knowing, why did he create Lucifer, since he knew he would fall? Why create humans, the tree from which they should not eat, and let all that happen? Because he's not omniscient, or he's just a jerk, or he's not real. If God is so powerful, why not just wipe out Satan? Satan is in a battle for your soul, right? But you have probably been "filled with the holy spirit", right? So why is Satan more powerful than the holy spirit? Why can't the holy spirit just tell Satan to leave you alone? I guess either God is not that powerful (omnipotent?), does not care (God is love?), or does not exist.

 

Why create billions of people who don't know "the gospel" and are all therefore doomed to hell? What kind of loving god does that? What kind of loving god allows thousands of children to die everyday from starvation and horrible diseases, but takes time to help me find a good parking spot? See what I mean? It's sick. He's not there. Not real. Not love."

 

OK, that's my take on the topic. I hope you find some relief from your fear.

[OnceConvinced]

I was recently debating with a Christian work colleague about hell.  He made the statement that Jesus took our punishment when he died on the cross. I then asked him whether he saw Hell as eternal suffering and he said yes. I then asked him, well how then did Jesus take my punishment? He is not suffering for all eternity. He only suffered for a few days which is a microscopic taste of what my punishment will be.   I ask again, how did Jesus take our punishment?  He couldn't answer that. 

 

He also went on to claim that Hell was simply seperation from God. We would not have his love for all eternity. Once again I said, well how did Jesus take my punishment then? Jesus isn't seperated from God right now. He still get's God's love, so how did he take my punishment? No reply.

 

This is an example of how even Christians beliefs contradict each other.

 

The whole concept of hell is just ludicrous in so many ways and when you think logically about it, it's just nonsense. Just think about it all logically and rationally. Look at a belief  a Christians has about Hell and then see how it contradicts other beliefs they hold.

 

I don't know if this is any use for you when it comes to your topic, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

 

This same Christian believes that God hates sinners. Yes, he hates sinners, not just the sin and the bible definitely backs him up. I said to him. "Ok, so God hates me. I am seperated from his love already. That's fine. I'm happy to be alive and for the most of it life is pretty cruisy for me,  so if I get to live eternal life as I am now then what's the problem? How is that eternal suffering?

 

You guessed it. No reply.

[Ralet]

Even if hell was real (place of eternal torture), I wouldn't want to live my life  praising and faking love for a god that created a place like that.

If hell is just a place separated from god, i wouldn't mind ending up there.

[gall]

I was recently debating with a Christian work colleague about hell.  He made the statement that Jesus took our punishment when he died on the cross. I then asked him whether he saw Hell as eternal suffering and he said yes. I then asked him, well how then did Jesus take my punishment? He is not suffering for all eternity. He only suffered for a few days which is a microscopic taste of what my punishment will be.   I ask again, how did Jesus take our punishment?  He couldn't answer that. 

 

He also went on to claim that Hell was simply seperation from God. We would not have his love for all eternity. Once again I said, well how did Jesus take my punishment then? Jesus isn't seperated from God right now. He still get's God's love, so how did he take my punishment? No reply.

 

This is an example of how even Christians beliefs contradict each other.

 

The whole concept of hell is just ludicrous in so many ways and when you think logically about it, it's just nonsense. Just think about it all logically and rationally. Look at a belief  a Christians has about Hell and then see how it contradicts other beliefs they hold.

 

I don't know if this is any use for you when it comes to your topic, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

 

This same Christian believes that God hates sinners. Yes, he hates sinners, not just the sin and the bible definitely backs him up. I said to him. "Ok, so God hates me. I am seperated from his love already. That's fine. I'm happy to be alive and for the most of it life is pretty cruisy for me,  so if I get to live eternal life as I am now then what's the problem? How is that eternal suffering?

 

You guessed it. No reply.

 

 

Your "friend" you were talking to was contradicting the actual things written in the bible. I am not even going to waste my time looking up the specific passages but anyone familiar with bible lore or bible in general should remember verses talking about gods endless love for man basically. You cannot endlessly love and simulatneously hate it is not possible. How would that work? Would one not negate the other and god would feel nothing and treat us like bugs?