Joyous1 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Yesterday as I was driving to work I saw the most amazing sunrise. The temp was -5 F so ice crystals in the air were causing a big, brilliant gold halo around the sun (my mother always called them sundogs). The sun on the horizon appeared to have a pillar of fire rising up from it. And it remained like that for longer than the average sunrise. When I believed, phenomenon like this left me in awe of God' beautiful creation. I realized yesterday that the great beauty of the world was always the true rock of my faith. And truthfully seeing that beautiful sight stirred my God-emotions. One of my favorite bible verses is in Psalm 42 "Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. " I felt that deep call yesterday, and waves of joy rolled over me. I don't think I can be Christian again, but what do I do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 It's the conditioning we've all received that there must be something out there. If we had never received this kind of mental conditioning, we would look at a beautiful sunrise and admire it for what it is, a lovely piece of nature. Why do things have to be supernatural? Why can't they just be beautiful and appreciated for what they are? Does a lake have to have fairies living around it for it to be beautiful? Do snowflakes have to fall from angel wings? Why can't we just appreciate the natural beauty of the world around us without the "it must have been made by a god because it's so picturesque" mentality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I feel that way about especially sexy women. "There must be a God... and He knows what I like!" But then I get over it. It's not to make light of your experience, but once you've really accepted the fact that there is no god, things like that are even more beautiful because they're so fleeting. You will never see another sunrise exactly like that one again. Never. The events that led up to it will never be exactly duplicated, so like all one-time events, you should enjoy it for what it was, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Yesterday as I was driving to work I saw the most amazing sunrise. The temp was -5 F so ice crystals in the air were causing a big, brilliant gold halo around the sun (my mother always called them sundogs). The sun on the horizon appeared to have a pillar of fire rising up from it. And it remained like that for longer than the average sunrise. When I believed, phenomenon like this left me in awe of God' beautiful creation. I realized yesterday that the great beauty of the world was always the true rock of my faith. And truthfully seeing that beautiful sight stirred my God-emotions. One of my favorite bible verses is in Psalm 42 "Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. " I felt that deep call yesterday, and waves of joy rolled over me. I don't think I can be Christian again, but what do I do with this? What about an earth-based, paganistic religion? Some are even atheistic in nature (heh..no pun intended)....you might be able to find something there that fulfills you spiritually w/o having to answer the, "Where did it all come from?" question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I had experiences like this before I was a christian. I've had experiences like it since I left the fold. I would classify experiences like this as being part of the human condition, with religion just a way of trying to explain them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I just enjoy them. Sometimes I thank the universe silently for constructing something wonderful for me to enjoy, then I move along. I don't know from Adam if there's a god out there. I'm pantheistic in outlook, but I don't think there has to be a deity for there to be plenty of joy and emotionally moving things in this universe. They're just there, god or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not1not2 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Yesterday as I was driving to work I saw the most amazing sunrise. The temp was -5 F so ice crystals in the air were causing a big, brilliant gold halo around the sun (my mother always called them sundogs). The sun on the horizon appeared to have a pillar of fire rising up from it. And it remained like that for longer than the average sunrise. When I believed, phenomenon like this left me in awe of God' beautiful creation. I realized yesterday that the great beauty of the world was always the true rock of my faith. And truthfully seeing that beautiful sight stirred my God-emotions. One of my favorite bible verses is in Psalm 42 "Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. " I felt that deep call yesterday, and waves of joy rolled over me. I don't think I can be Christian again, but what do I do with this? Perhaps your 'true faith' is based on your experience of the awesome nature of reality. One need not imply a big guy in the sky for this world to be amazing. And those deep calls are an experience of the infinite; the deep, ineffible mystery of existence. These moments are rare and beautiful. No conceptual elaborations are necessary. Just be with these moments as they happen, and let them go peacefully. Don't worry, they are not dependent on belief systems. I think anyone deeply in touch with mystery can experience these moments. The only problem you're going to have is your mental habit of equating these experience with a personal, creator god. So, don't get too caught up on your belief or lack thereof. For better or for worse, like it or not, here you are, and this life is all you have. The experience of belief or disbelief is temporary and is not dependable enough to base your peace of mind on. So just let your belief come, and embrace it tenderly and let it go its own way. And when your doubt comes, embrace it tenderly as well. All these are just temporary, conditional states of mind that need not disturb your serenity. Anyway, I hope this helps. If not, I hope you find something that does. Good luck on your journey. May you be well. _/\_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 When I believed, phenomenon like this left me in awe of God' beautiful creation. I realized yesterday that the great beauty of the world was always the true rock of my faith. And truthfully seeing that beautiful sight stirred my God-emotions. One of my favorite bible verses is in Psalm 42 "Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. " I felt that deep call yesterday, and waves of joy rolled over me. I don't think I can be Christian again, but what do I do with this? The beauty of the world hasn't changed, but you have. That's one thing that always ticks me off about xtians - they can't enjoy anything unless they somehow cram god into it. A beautiful sunset, the Northern Lights, the first flowers of spring; it's all 'praise the lord and his beautiful creation'. They can never just enjoy something for what it is - everything has to be dogma. Try forgetting god and be amazed at nature, the way life crafts itself into fantastic forms and unique experiences, all without supernatural guidance. That's the real miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 They can never just enjoy something for what it is - everything has to be dogma. Try forgetting god and be amazed at nature, the way life crafts itself into fantastic forms and unique experiences, all without supernatural guidance. That's the real miracle. Yeah. But they are too blind to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyous1 Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 Thank you all, your replies have been tremendously helpful. What a relief to be able to express myself without my experience being pigeon-holed into the catechism. I looked at some deist websites, I think that may be the best path for me. My concern is that my propensity for being "deeply in touch with mystery" has always left me vulnerable to religion. I'm looking for ways to patch that vulnerability without losing the joy it brings me. btw, happy solstice to one and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles1:2 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I wonder, why is it beautiful? Why don't we live on a planet where sunrise is the ugliest experience imaginable? Isn't it because we were made for this world, by this world? Rejoice in this spark while it endures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Thank you all, your replies have been tremendously helpful. What a relief to be able to express myself without my experience being pigeon-holed into the catechism. I looked at some deist websites, I think that may be the best path for me. My concern is that my propensity for being "deeply in touch with mystery" has always left me vulnerable to religion. I'm looking for ways to patch that vulnerability without losing the joy it brings me. btw, happy solstice to one and all I saw something (on the Science Channel?? or maybe it was the Barbara Walters Special) last night that said they had found a gene that makes some people much more likely to believe in "something." Those w/o the gene were generally atheists (if I have my facts straight...last night is kind of a blur) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beverly Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I can understand your experience. but, after all the spiritual activity I have suffered through the years, from the local pentecostal group, your question, would not occur to me as in "what do you do with it" as in "being moved to utilize it" I love nature too and a have a corresponding, extreme distaste for spiritual matters, for me, if its spirit, I just scrape it off, I would probably think differently about all that if it were not for the extreme activities of the christians I suspect that is the source of most of the spiritual manifestion stuff lots of churches are doing it "general outpouring of the spirit on all flesh", is the current rage with them I think they are crazy, and don't want to be bothered with their conjure I love nature. Beverly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 i like to relax amd meditate and watch nature. the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom, nature, have so much to teach when we watch. i listen to my thoughts on what i see, hear, feel and taste. but dont let the thoughts take you away from your focus. i feel relaxed and peaceful doing this probally because im not focused on worries or concerns. life has so much to teach. i like to get to know myself and the world around me. the problem i see with christianity is it labels everything it says its got to be this way or that way it goes by the book and your ongly seeing the world threw the view of jesus. then you get stuck in a cube sort of you can ongly see whats in the little block your religion created. you ongly see the christian view of the big picture. i dont know if their is a god or not or if spiritual experiances is cause of a god or just in your mind. whatever it is ithas alot to teach if it is not trapped in a religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 One of my favorite bible verses is in Psalm 42 "Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. " I also love that chapter, SoulInCrisis. Just because you no longer believe doesn't mean that certain scripture can't be meditated on and be meaningful to you. I feel the same about Psalm 139. Let the feelings come and allow them to keep coming. Be in the moment and enjoy what you are seeing rather than looking for reasons to fight your feelings. If you become so determined not to allow any spiritual experiences, you may miss something wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I've had a few moments like that, too, since de-converting. Moments where you feel so centered, so connected. Moments where something in nature strikes you as particularly beautiful or moving. I have to remind myself sometimes to not follow what I've done in the past, which is of course, to thank Jesus. Now, I just take a deep breath, and feel happy to be alive. Happy to be a momentary participant on this spinning ball. And I realize that moments like that need to be cherished. Because we won't be here very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 You don't remember, but you felt like that before, when you were a child. They conditioned it out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbound Alleee Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Seriously and honestly: I rarely, if ever, thought about God when I had the warm fuzzies. And I was a believer. It's very sad that people can take away from a wonderful experience by making you think of something completely unrealted to an experience that belongs to you, and take it away from you and give it to something that is meaningless. What a tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 .....Why do things have to be supernatural? Why can't they just be beautiful and appreciated for what they are? Does a lake have to have fairies living around it for it to be beautiful? Do snowflakes have to fall from angel wings? Why can't we just appreciate the natural beauty of the world around us without the "it must have been made by a god because it's so picturesque" mentality? This is a great observation, Amethyst. You usually post many of my same thoughts, but I think you write 'em waaaay better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maggie Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I understand how you feel. I find the same thing happens to me. I tried to turn it off and be an athiest but that just didn't work for me. I then tried being agnostic but that didn't work either. Finally, I quit fighting the fact that I believe in a Source of Life and just allowed myself to hold that belief. It's interesting to me that you mention Deism as that's where I seem to have ended up at the moment too. You might want to check out a site I visit at http://www.dynamicdeism.org It's really a great place. I know that many people on this board are athiest and they don't believe in God and they would discourage you from any form of belief. However, I really think that each of us has to find our own way through this life and I encourage you to continue exploring until you find something that works for you and that you're comfortable with. Good luck in your search! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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