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3 Months Of Battle In My Head


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Hello everyone, I will share my short testimony. yellow.gif  My name is Toma, I‘m from Lithuania and I‘m 20 years old now. By the way, don‘t pay attention to my grammar mistakes.  I had been a christian for nearly 2 years. Simply, I live with my mom who is unbeliever (now I‘m in other city, studying), dad is christian but they are seperated.  I used to visit him once a week. Before the conversion I was really depressed about my life cause I wanted to increase a confidence in myself and I was seeking for the truth, felt lack of love in my life and didn‘t have true friends. I read psychological, philosophy books and started discuss with my dad about purpose and goals of life, about spiritual things and something like that. Of course, he didn‘t accept all the truths I shared with him because he is christian and he gave me to read the „Piligrim process“ by John Bunyan, and later he gave me the bible. So after that I became a christian. During my faith period, I heard people speaking in tongues, experienced  „electric tingles“ or „Holy Spirit touch“ as other christians would say (but still don‘t know how to explain these experiences). It was a huge relief for me because I felt loved, my self-confidence increased. I thought I found the purpose of life.  I left my „wordly“ friends, all my vain activities that distracted me from god. Honestly, I was truly devoted  and fanatic believer , god became the most important thing in my life, he was my best friend, however, then doubt about God‘s love came and step-by-step it led me to the point that I decided to leave this stuff because I couldn‘t take it anymore, my faith disappeared. My doubts had been continuing for almost 3 months (it was the worst part of my life), I mean I was fighting with that doubts in my head for 3 months. It caused me so much stress, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches, I even couldn‘t remember the day when I was okay because every minute I was praying, resisting that doubts with all my efforts, however, there was no peace in my heart, just temporary relief in hoping that everything will be ok and that hope sustained me for a while. I wasn‘t angry at god during this difficult time, I even thought that this suffering will produce some good fruits in me. Happily, it was summer holidays, no responsibilities, lots of free time for battles. During these difficulties, I spent lots of time with my dad asking to pray for me because of devil „attacks“. I got only an advice just simply trust Jesus, and resist that doubts. Yeah..I „simply“ trusted..Wendyloser.gif Here I am, lost all spiritual and physical ammunition and left a battle field. It‘s very strange feeling to be an ex-christian. There are moments of euphora and some moments of an existential crisis, some kind of depression but I'm doing okay. For this moment, I have a question in my head  „what to do next?" Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion? Wendyshrug.gif Wendytwitch.gif

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Welcome, Toma! And don't worry. Fear, anger, and questions about what to do next are very, very common in the months and years after deconversion. You've come to the right place to find people who'll help you through the worst.

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Welcome Toma; i am sorry for your emotional suffering. It seems to be a major indicator that we are

human.But it hurts. Congratulations for your courage and intelligence in breading away fro Xtianity. You are no longer a puppet for someone else to control.

 

 

 

"Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion?"

 

The answer to your question is YES. Deconversion is a difficult time for many of us, Indeed I would say

most of us.The exchrisstions here will tell you of their personal experiences in deconversion and will give you some helpful advice. One thing that is very helpful is to get educated in Xtian history

written by real historians instead of Xtian apologists. It is a real shocker and an eye opener.Also

books on how the bible was put together, which will show you that it was clearly written by men and was not God inspired. Then there are books by atheists and agnostics, many of whom are former Xtians. In

addition there are good books on evolution and cosmology. The point is the more you you know about

these things the more confident you will be.

It will be a pleasure to have you here so keep coming back. bill

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Hey Toma! Welcome to the forums! I am sorry to hear about the challenges you have faced so far. For me, the deconversion process was the hardest of all. I definitely would agree with william7davis. Start reading and studying. 

As far as what happened for me, my first steps afterwards began asking the simple question of who am I. I would suggest to find things you enjoy and try begin to rebuild yourself again. I did a lot of reading afterwards and talking with numerous people about any and all doubts or questions I had. I would suggest doing the same thing and begin taking life one day at a time. You will find your way and become the strong, confident woman that is inside of you. 

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Welcome Toma! I am so glad you made it out of christianity. You are now free to explore the world as you choose, based on your sense of morality with no fear of punishment. As others say be curious, be curious about everything in the world and open minded about what you find. Start trusting you own instincts and the scientific method (both of which are flawed but often the best assessment of reality that we have. Trust yourself. Where it is possible try to stay away from christians while you are still fragile and working your way out of the religion. Many of us have been sucked back in only to have to draw ourselves out again. Keep posting on any subject you want. You have support here :)

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Hi Toma and welcome! Thanks for sharing your story. I too have just recently deconverted and went through a very similar process. Just 3 months ago I was signed up to be in a ministry training school. But like you I've always been a thinker and eventually my thoughts and logic all added up to the most logical conclusion: God is not there. Or at least not the Christian God of the Bible. I still think there may be some type of spirit realm or energy that keeps the universe together.. but really who knows??

 

I've had experiences like you where I assumed I was feeling the presence of God. What I think this was is a feeling of peace with life and unity with life as a whole. In worship I went to a charasmatic church and it was a more meditative, mystical experience for me that would lead to the feeling of peace. These were emotions that I was feeling which can have all sorts of outcomes- crying, trembling, tingling and so on.

 

I've recently begun a non religious practice of mindfulness meditation. This helps me get that same peace but instead of trying to externalize it in worship it is a pure peace with my existence and embracing uncertainty and ambiguity.

 

At first losing my faith was terribly painful. I went through depression and anger but I am now feeling a true sense of freedom that I never had while involved with Christianity. It's still a process for me but know that it gets better. I'm just taking it one day at a time.

 

And as far as what to do next I have asked this question a lot. I have decided to focus on the simple things of life like loving my wife and myself. Working on a career that I enjoy and just living as honestly as I can. good luck with everything. You are strong and smart and will be just fine. :) Glad you are here.

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Thank you for your advices and support. It's nice to know I'm not alone as formely thought and we can join together here. Good advice to live one day at a time and build the trust in yourself. Can you suggest some books that made your process of deconversion easier and set .you free? 

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A book that has helped me is "The Wisdom of Insecurity" by Alan Watts. A philosophy book about the anxiety of trying to have certainty of life. Watts is a former Christian and suggests new thought patterns as ways of coping with insecurity and pain. It's technically Zen philosophy but in no way do you have to be a Buddhist to benefit from it.

Also a lot of people here recommend The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins but I have not read it yet. I think it is more of a scientific and psychological argument for the non-existence of god.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everyone, I will share my short testimony. yellow.gif  My name is Toma, I‘m from Lithuania and I‘m 20 years old now. By the way, don‘t pay attention to my grammar mistakes.  I had been a christian for nearly 2 years. Simply, I live with my mom who is unbeliever (now I‘m in other city, studying), dad is christian but they are seperated.  I used to visit him once a week. Before the conversion I was really depressed about my life cause I wanted to increase a confidence in myself and I was seeking for the truth, felt lack of love in my life and didn‘t have true friends. I read psychological, philosophy books and started discuss with my dad about purpose and goals of life, about spiritual things and something like that. Of course, he didn‘t accept all the truths I shared with him because he is christian and he gave me to read the „Piligrim process“ by John Bunyan, and later he gave me the bible. So after that I became a christian. During my faith period, I heard people speaking in tongues, experienced  „electric tingles“ or „Holy Spirit touch“ as other christians would say (but still don‘t know how to explain these experiences). It was a huge relief for me because I felt loved, my self-confidence increased. I thought I found the purpose of life.  I left my „wordly“ friends, all my vain activities that distracted me from god. Honestly, I was truly devoted  and fanatic believer , god became the most important thing in my life, he was my best friend, however, then doubt about God‘s love came and step-by-step it led me to the point that I decided to leave this stuff because I couldn‘t take it anymore, my faith disappeared. My doubts had been continuing for almost 3 months (it was the worst part of my life), I mean I was fighting with that doubts in my head for 3 months. It caused me so much stress, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches, I even couldn‘t remember the day when I was okay because every minute I was praying, resisting that doubts with all my efforts, however, there was no peace in my heart, just temporary relief in hoping that everything will be ok and that hope sustained me for a while. I wasn‘t angry at god during this difficult time, I even thought that this suffering will produce some good fruits in me. Happily, it was summer holidays, no responsibilities, lots of free time for battles. During these difficulties, I spent lots of time with my dad asking to pray for me because of devil „attacks“. I got only an advice just simply trust Jesus, and resist that doubts. Yeah..I „simply“ trusted..Wendyloser.gif Here I am, lost all spiritual and physical ammunition and left a battle field. It‘s very strange feeling to be an ex-christian. There are moments of euphora and some moments of an existential crisis, some kind of depression but I'm doing okay. For this moment, I have a question in my head  „what to do next?" Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion? Wendyshrug.gif Wendytwitch.gif

Hi and welcome :)

Im guessing you still believe. Maybe not in the biblical god but one you made up yourself (as many others do).

 

My cat (who is now nick named stinky, since hes farting a lot atm) is my role model in life.

He doesn't believe in god (well unless its him) and he is a sweet loving kind cat. Who has high moral standard (wish is apparently impossible without the love of god).

He only thinks about himself. But he is still kind to others (well unless you step on his tail). 

He doesnt care if god exists. He keeps his small brain busy with things that are more important in life. Like food, getting petted, sleeping, pooping and resiliently farting.

heres a video of him:

 

This might kind of sound like im joking but u am not.

The point is. Nature created us, and WE created religion.

We are the only species on this planet that believes in such a thing as god (and a probably a bunch of other crazy stuff).

Personally psychology helped me a lot to explain stuff.

Humans are the most intelligent and at the same time most retarded species on this planet.

People are also easier to control and manipulate then cats are (unless you hold a steak in front of there noses).

I mean how easy was it to make people belief in a man that kind of looks like Santa with magical powers that created all and can see everything.

Just as easy as making a 6 year old belief in santa.

There is no distinct differences (in intelligence) between a 6 year old and a full grown adult. Its not about knowledge or age, its only about WHAT knowledge.

 

You could look for answer in other religions or in philosophy. However you will never find answers there. Unless you are willing to play stuppid and you take what is given to you. What you will however find is possible answers/explanations for thing there are not concrete answers for.

What is left is you either play stupid and pick one, or stay smart and respect the fact that there are not concrete answers.

 

Emotions come from definitions (actually you whole personalty comes for that).

If you are depressed it is caused be a definition.

To put that in perspective:

Think about an orange.... when you do so.. you will probably have a ton of stuff going true your head.. like how its tastes, how it looks, how it looked in that commercial on tv, where you saw oranges, last time you has orange juice etc etc etc (you could probably write a book about it)..... Now that is your definition of an orange.

Now obviously your definition of god is much much longer.

How the feeling/emotion you get when you think about an orange is caused by your definition of an orange.

Its all about definitions.... just look at why some people are afraid of spiders and other keep them as pets.

 

Now these definitions can be changed, and actually change all the time...

If i would drink spoiled orange juice tomorrow, then my definition of oranges gets updated (automatically).

Now i could also do some research on oranges and update my definition of oranges even more.

(not to mention im also updating my definition of juices, drinks etc)

 

Now somewhere in you definition of god, hell, meaning of life, there is something you are not happy with wish is causing depression.

And those definition atm require an update... wish you are actively doing all the time.

 

Now i would suggest you read the complete opposite of the bible. The satanic bible... But please, dont read it to replace what you believe in.... simply read it to add additional information to your definitions and gain some balance.....

Like when 1 kid hits a other kid.... you dont automatically believe one of the kids... but you listen to both of them... and OF COURSE you don't believe either of them 100% unless you saw it with your own eyes (in wish case listening to both sides would be unnecessary).

 

Anyways, thank you for reading my long boring text, and if you didnt read it well you didnt miss much :P

 

Welcome to the forum and wish you all the best.

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Hello everyone, I will share my short testimony. yellow.gif  My name is Toma, I‘m from Lithuania and I‘m 20 years old now. By the way, don‘t pay attention to my grammar mistakes.  I had been a christian for nearly 2 years. Simply, I live with my mom who is unbeliever (now I‘m in other city, studying), dad is christian but they are seperated.  I used to visit him once a week. Before the conversion I was really depressed about my life cause I wanted to increase a confidence in myself and I was seeking for the truth, felt lack of love in my life and didn‘t have true friends. I read psychological, philosophy books and started discuss with my dad about purpose and goals of life, about spiritual things and something like that. Of course, he didn‘t accept all the truths I shared with him because he is christian and he gave me to read the „Piligrim process“ by John Bunyan, and later he gave me the bible. So after that I became a christian. During my faith period, I heard people speaking in tongues, experienced  „electric tingles“ or „Holy Spirit touch“ as other christians would say (but still don‘t know how to explain these experiences). It was a huge relief for me because I felt loved, my self-confidence increased. I thought I found the purpose of life.  I left my „wordly“ friends, all my vain activities that distracted me from god. Honestly, I was truly devoted  and fanatic believer , god became the most important thing in my life, he was my best friend, however, then doubt about God‘s love came and step-by-step it led me to the point that I decided to leave this stuff because I couldn‘t take it anymore, my faith disappeared. My doubts had been continuing for almost 3 months (it was the worst part of my life), I mean I was fighting with that doubts in my head for 3 months. It caused me so much stress, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches, I even couldn‘t remember the day when I was okay because every minute I was praying, resisting that doubts with all my efforts, however, there was no peace in my heart, just temporary relief in hoping that everything will be ok and that hope sustained me for a while. I wasn‘t angry at god during this difficult time, I even thought that this suffering will produce some good fruits in me. Happily, it was summer holidays, no responsibilities, lots of free time for battles. During these difficulties, I spent lots of time with my dad asking to pray for me because of devil „attacks“. I got only an advice just simply trust Jesus, and resist that doubts. Yeah..I „simply“ trusted..Wendyloser.gif Here I am, lost all spiritual and physical ammunition and left a battle field. It‘s very strange feeling to be an ex-christian. There are moments of euphora and some moments of an existential crisis, some kind of depression but I'm doing okay. For this moment, I have a question in my head  „what to do next?" Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion? Wendyshrug.gif Wendytwitch.gif

Hi and welcome smile.png

Im guessing you still believe. Maybe not in the biblical god but one you made up yourself (as many others do).

 

My cat (who is now nick named stinky, since hes farting a lot atm) is my role model in life.

He doesn't believe in god (well unless its him) and he is a sweet loving kind cat. Who has high moral standard (wish is apparently impossible without the love of god).

He only thinks about himself. But he is still kind to others (well unless you step on his tail). 

He doesnt care if god exists. He keeps his small brain busy with things that are more important in life. Like food, getting petted, sleeping, pooping and resiliently farting.

heres a video of him:

 

This might kind of sound like im joking but u am not.

The point is. Nature created us, and WE created religion.

We are the only species on this planet that believes in such a thing as god (and a probably a bunch of other crazy stuff).

Personally psychology helped me a lot to explain stuff.

Humans are the most intelligent and at the same time most retarded species on this planet.

People are also easier to control and manipulate then cats are (unless you hold a steak in front of there noses).

I mean how easy was it to make people belief in a man that kind of looks like Santa with magical powers that created all and can see everything.

Just as easy as making a 6 year old belief in santa.

There is no distinct differences (in intelligence) between a 6 year old and a full grown adult. Its not about knowledge or age, its only about WHAT knowledge.

 

You could look for answer in other religions or in philosophy. However you will never find answers there. Unless you are willing to play stuppid and you take what is given to you. What you will however find is possible answers/explanations for thing there are not concrete answers for.

What is left is you either play stupid and pick one, or stay smart and respect the fact that there are not concrete answers.

 

Emotions come from definitions (actually you whole personalty comes for that).

If you are depressed it is caused be a definition.

To put that in perspective:

Think about an orange.... when you do so.. you will probably have a ton of stuff going true your head.. like how its tastes, how it looks, how it looked in that commercial on tv, where you saw oranges, last time you has orange juice etc etc etc (you could probably write a book about it)..... Now that is your definition of an orange.

Now obviously your definition of god is much much longer.

How the feeling/emotion you get when you think about an orange is caused by your definition of an orange.

Its all about definitions.... just look at why some people are afraid of spiders and other keep them as pets.

 

Now these definitions can be changed, and actually change all the time...

If i would drink spoiled orange juice tomorrow, then my definition of oranges gets updated (automatically).

Now i could also do some research on oranges and update my definition of oranges even more.

(not to mention im also updating my definition of juices, drinks etc)

 

Now somewhere in you definition of god, hell, meaning of life, there is something you are not happy with wish is causing depression.

And those definition atm require an update... wish you are actively doing all the time.

 

Now i would suggest you read the complete opposite of the bible. The satanic bible... But please, dont read it to replace what you believe in.... simply read it to add additional information to your definitions and gain some balance.....

Like when 1 kid hits a other kid.... you dont automatically believe one of the kids... but you listen to both of them... and OF COURSE you don't believe either of them 100% unless you saw it with your own eyes (in wish case listening to both sides would be unnecessary).

 

Anyways, thank you for reading my long boring text, and if you didnt read it well you didnt miss much tongue.png

 

Welcome to the forum and wish you all the best.

 

Thank you for your great post, at first glance it gave me some dose of laugh and a simple revelation.wink.png eek.gif  Sometimes when you try hard in thinking how to live, you read lots of books hoping you will find the truth, search for certainty in life and finally you realize that you will never have that certainty, the only thing is left is to admit that life is uncertain. It looks like our life is like a child's puzzle that lacks of some details, when you think you found that missing details of puzzle, then you notice that puzzle is still not complete, this process is endless. I really liked your given example of cat's life, it's so simple. I also have a cat but haven't noticed such a good prospect of life. Cats don't read self-help books, they just live by their instincts and by being themselves...they know how to live. Of course, we are a little bit smarter that seems to be a problem (more stupid thoughts, imagination that raises lots of needs), and have more choices of surviving and eventually there is a greater strife among homo sapiens. repuke.gif
 
I thought that the process of deconversion will be really difficult, I was really scared of that, but personally I have noticed that I don't need any self-help or philosophy books to support myself because everyhting comes from practice and what fits for one's life, doesn't fit for other's because of different minds maps. It amazes me how brain works like safeguard, brain do its own job of recovery even if it makes some feeble tricks sometimes. I found it helpful to read science books in contrast of philosophical books (I think the philosophers was also brainwashed by christian life or 'proper' life standarts, models at some level). However, science doesn't show the meaning of life but it really sweetens the life. yellow.gif 
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I read the books by Hitchens and Dawkins and found them to be helpful, but the christian part of my brain (which has shrunk significantly now) still pulled holes in it as these men were never really strong christians so their understanding of what it is like to be a christian limits them in reaching christians IMHO. What I found most helpful was online reading, like this site and watching ex-christian and atheist videos on YouTube. 

 

One man that was particularly helpful in explaining why god feels so damn real, when the experience is mostly a delusion is Derren Brown. Here are a couple;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfDlfhHVvTY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LksVbHxLRvY

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After I deconverted I felt a void in my life.  I would go to pray and think "oh that's right, I don't believe in this anymore."  I was used to talking to god throughout my day.  It didn't take too long for me to become preoccupied by my life and that hole filled up.  There's been a lot of health problems going on in my family lately, and I often get asked to pray.  I smile and nod, but I never do.  It seems like a waste of thoughts now.  I'd much rather be meditating, which is calming and helps me to maintain my focus. 

 

I read a lot of science books at first.  Concepts that were off limits to me as a Christian I just wanted to soak up.  Things I had been taught, but by the church forced to ignore.  Evolution, cosmology, dinosaurs...these sorts of things I became newly fascinated with.  I also wanted to learn about this new group I belonged to, the atheists.  I started reading a lot of books by atheists to see how they viewed the world.  Right now I am enjoying "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins.  It's been a fascinating read and has gotten me up to speed on evolutionary thought. 

 

I also started reading a lot about other religions, which was also off limits before.  I wanted to learn their origins and why they believe what they do.

 

Another thing I started doing was...well...whatever I wanted without feeling guilty.  Now I don't mean bad, immoral things.  You can still be moral without religion! It's just that, I was very conservative before.  But now I wear whatever I want without worrying if it's too "revealing".  I can listen to the music that I want because I like the tune, instead of shutting the radio off whenever a cuss word comes on.  I don't have to worry about "honoring god" all the time.  It has given me such freedom to be exactly who I am instead of stifling myself all the time.  I've become more confident.  More assertive.  I don't let people take advantage of me nearly as much.

 

I can stop asking god what I should do, and instead decide what is best for myself and those I care about.  It eliminates a lot of the waiting I did before, waiting around for an answer from god.  I trust myself more.  I wanted to choose a career that would be pleasing to god, and I wasted a lot of college years trying to decipher what it was that god actually wanted me to do.  Now that I'm finishing up my undergrad degree, I can choose my grad school based on what I'm passionate about. 

 

All around I am a much MUCH happier person.  It might take a little bit to get used to the idea and settle in to being exactly who you are.  I wish you the best of luck!

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Hello everyone, I will share my short testimony. yellow.gif  My name is Toma, I‘m from Lithuania and I‘m 20 years old now. By the way, don‘t pay attention to my grammar mistakes.  I had been a christian for nearly 2 years. Simply, I live with my mom who is unbeliever (now I‘m in other city, studying), dad is christian but they are seperated.  I used to visit him once a week. Before the conversion I was really depressed about my life cause I wanted to increase a confidence in myself and I was seeking for the truth, felt lack of love in my life and didn‘t have true friends. I read psychological, philosophy books and started discuss with my dad about purpose and goals of life, about spiritual things and something like that. Of course, he didn‘t accept all the truths I shared with him because he is christian and he gave me to read the „Piligrim process“ by John Bunyan, and later he gave me the bible. So after that I became a christian. During my faith period, I heard people speaking in tongues, experienced  „electric tingles“ or „Holy Spirit touch“ as other christians would say (but still don‘t know how to explain these experiences). It was a huge relief for me because I felt loved, my self-confidence increased. I thought I found the purpose of life.  I left my „wordly“ friends, all my vain activities that distracted me from god. Honestly, I was truly devoted  and fanatic believer , god became the most important thing in my life, he was my best friend, however, then doubt about God‘s love came and step-by-step it led me to the point that I decided to leave this stuff because I couldn‘t take it anymore, my faith disappeared. My doubts had been continuing for almost 3 months (it was the worst part of my life), I mean I was fighting with that doubts in my head for 3 months. It caused me so much stress, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches, I even couldn‘t remember the day when I was okay because every minute I was praying, resisting that doubts with all my efforts, however, there was no peace in my heart, just temporary relief in hoping that everything will be ok and that hope sustained me for a while. I wasn‘t angry at god during this difficult time, I even thought that this suffering will produce some good fruits in me. Happily, it was summer holidays, no responsibilities, lots of free time for battles. During these difficulties, I spent lots of time with my dad asking to pray for me because of devil „attacks“. I got only an advice just simply trust Jesus, and resist that doubts. Yeah..I „simply“ trusted..Wendyloser.gif Here I am, lost all spiritual and physical ammunition and left a battle field. It‘s very strange feeling to be an ex-christian. There are moments of euphora and some moments of an existential crisis, some kind of depression but I'm doing okay. For this moment, I have a question in my head  „what to do next?" Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion? Wendyshrug.gif Wendytwitch.gif

Hi and welcome smile.png

Im guessing you still believe. Maybe not in the biblical god but one you made up yourself (as many others do).

 

My cat (who is now nick named stinky, since hes farting a lot atm) is my role model in life.

He doesn't believe in god (well unless its him) and he is a sweet loving kind cat. Who has high moral standard (wish is apparently impossible without the love of god).

He only thinks about himself. But he is still kind to others (well unless you step on his tail). 

He doesnt care if god exists. He keeps his small brain busy with things that are more important in life. Like food, getting petted, sleeping, pooping and resiliently farting.

heres a video of him:

 

This might kind of sound like im joking but u am not.

The point is. Nature created us, and WE created religion.

We are the only species on this planet that believes in such a thing as god (and a probably a bunch of other crazy stuff).

Personally psychology helped me a lot to explain stuff.

Humans are the most intelligent and at the same time most retarded species on this planet.

People are also easier to control and manipulate then cats are (unless you hold a steak in front of there noses).

I mean how easy was it to make people belief in a man that kind of looks like Santa with magical powers that created all and can see everything.

Just as easy as making a 6 year old belief in santa.

There is no distinct differences (in intelligence) between a 6 year old and a full grown adult. Its not about knowledge or age, its only about WHAT knowledge.

 

You could look for answer in other religions or in philosophy. However you will never find answers there. Unless you are willing to play stuppid and you take what is given to you. What you will however find is possible answers/explanations for thing there are not concrete answers for.

What is left is you either play stupid and pick one, or stay smart and respect the fact that there are not concrete answers.

 

Emotions come from definitions (actually you whole personalty comes for that).

If you are depressed it is caused be a definition.

To put that in perspective:

Think about an orange.... when you do so.. you will probably have a ton of stuff going true your head.. like how its tastes, how it looks, how it looked in that commercial on tv, where you saw oranges, last time you has orange juice etc etc etc (you could probably write a book about it)..... Now that is your definition of an orange.

Now obviously your definition of god is much much longer.

How the feeling/emotion you get when you think about an orange is caused by your definition of an orange.

Its all about definitions.... just look at why some people are afraid of spiders and other keep them as pets.

 

Now these definitions can be changed, and actually change all the time...

If i would drink spoiled orange juice tomorrow, then my definition of oranges gets updated (automatically).

Now i could also do some research on oranges and update my definition of oranges even more.

(not to mention im also updating my definition of juices, drinks etc)

 

Now somewhere in you definition of god, hell, meaning of life, there is something you are not happy with wish is causing depression.

And those definition atm require an update... wish you are actively doing all the time.

 

Now i would suggest you read the complete opposite of the bible. The satanic bible... But please, dont read it to replace what you believe in.... simply read it to add additional information to your definitions and gain some balance.....

Like when 1 kid hits a other kid.... you dont automatically believe one of the kids... but you listen to both of them... and OF COURSE you don't believe either of them 100% unless you saw it with your own eyes (in wish case listening to both sides would be unnecessary).

 

Anyways, thank you for reading my long boring text, and if you didnt read it well you didnt miss much tongue.png

 

Welcome to the forum and wish you all the best.

 

Thank you for your great post, at first glance it gave me some dose of laugh and a simple revelation.wink.png eek.gif  Sometimes when you try hard in thinking how to live, you read lots of books hoping you will find the truth, search for certainty in life and finally you realize that you will never have that certainty, the only thing is left is to admit that life is uncertain. It looks like our life is like a child's puzzle that lacks of some details, when you think you found that missing details of puzzle, then you notice that puzzle is still not complete, this process is endless. I really liked your given example of cat's life, it's so simple. I also have a cat but haven't noticed such a good prospect of life. Cats don't read self-help books, they just live by their instincts and by being themselves...they know how to live. Of course, we are a little bit smarter that seems to be a problem (more stupid thoughts, imagination that raises lots of needs), and have more choices of surviving and eventually there is a greater strife among homo sapiens. repuke.gif
 
I thought that the process of deconversion will be really difficult, I was really scared of that, but personally I have noticed that I don't need any self-help or philosophy books to support myself because everyhting comes from practice and what fits for one's life, doesn't fit for other's because of different minds maps. It amazes me how brain works like safeguard, brain do its own job of recovery even if it makes some feeble tricks sometimes. I found it helpful to read science books in contrast of philosophical books (I think the philosophers was also brainwashed by christian life or 'proper' life standarts, models at some level). However, science doesn't show the meaning of life but it really sweetens the life. yellow.gif 

 

 

I tend to fill my definitions with as much information as i can. Being as open minded as possible.

A little science a little philosophy a little things you would probably call crazy etc..

Take in all the fascinating stuff an making up my own mind or simple mark it as "unknown".

 

Imagine you had all the answers... What would you do then? Wouldn't life be really boring?

Not knowing motivates us to search for answers and gives us some meaning and excitement in life.

Every scientific advancement comes from this drive.

 

How difficult the process of deconversion is depends on how difficult YOU BELIEVE it to be.

You are literally the person who you believe yourself to be.

We all see things different. Or in other words we all live in our own version of reality.

Most commonly described as one sees the glass half full and one sees the glass half empty.

 

Now when i say believe i mean really believe (absolutely without any doubt 110%).

The only way you can however believe something absolutely is true experience/realization.

 

Now i know a lot of people look for something they call "enlightenment".

This however usually results is people searching something supernatural.

If you ask me "what is the meaning of life?" you will get a simple answer:

To follow your joy. (to do what you want to do and have lots of fun)

 

Now religions and so called "paths to enlightenment" tell you what you should do.

Why can we just enjoy life and do what we want? Why do we search for people to tell use how to liv our lifes?

 

If you ask me what enlightenment is i would say:

To grab life by the balls and enjoy it to the fullest. And don't let anything take the fun away from you.

 

Fantasies are fun.

When i was a kid i played the teenage mutant Nina turtles with my cousins.. ya know.. dress up as a turtle and pretend to be one. But even as a kids we still knew we where just playing and didn't really have super power and so (maybe in your case you pretended to be barbie).

It looks to me like adults miss this..

Some people go to these fantasies party's where they like dress up and do role playing...

Some people go to religion and become mentally insane...

And other people stick to harry poter and playing world of warcraft tongue.png

Or do it retro and play nurse and doctor in bed tongue.png

 

Society is messed up, i mean Christians are seen as normal intelligent respected people and people that dress up like fantasies characters and do role playing are seen as crazy outcasts.

If you like to dress up as a fantasies character and do role playing then do it. Who cares what a bunch delusional retards think about you.

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I read the books by Hitchens and Dawkins and found them to be helpful, but the christian part of my brain (which has shrunk significantly now) still pulled holes in it as these men were never really strong christians so their understanding of what it is like to be a christian limits them in reaching christians IMHO. What I found most helpful was online reading, like this site and watching ex-christian and atheist videos on YouTube. 

 

One man that was particularly helpful in explaining why god feels so damn real, when the experience is mostly a delusion is Derren Brown. Here are a couple;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfDlfhHVvTY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LksVbHxLRvY

Thank you for videos, I will check this later. Yeah, this site really helps. I remember the moment when I forced from christian life into cosmic mode, somewhere stucked in the middle between two worlds, and finally thought that I'm the only one who experienced such tragedy, even didn't realised there is such definition like "deconverted".  Happily, I found this site mystically. Glory for the age of technology!

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After I deconverted I felt a void in my life.  I would go to pray and think "oh that's right, I don't believe in this anymore."  I was used to talking to god throughout my day.  It didn't take too long for me to become preoccupied by my life and that hole filled up.  There's been a lot of health problems going on in my family lately, and I often get asked to pray.  I smile and nod, but I never do.  It seems like a waste of thoughts now.  I'd much rather be meditating, which is calming and helps me to maintain my focus. 

 

I read a lot of science books at first.  Concepts that were off limits to me as a Christian I just wanted to soak up.  Things I had been taught, but by the church forced to ignore.  Evolution, cosmology, dinosaurs...these sorts of things I became newly fascinated with.  I also wanted to learn about this new group I belonged to, the atheists.  I started reading a lot of books by atheists to see how they viewed the world.  Right now I am enjoying "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins.  It's been a fascinating read and has gotten me up to speed on evolutionary thought. 

 

I also started reading a lot about other religions, which was also off limits before.  I wanted to learn their origins and why they believe what they do.

 

Another thing I started doing was...well...whatever I wanted without feeling guilty.  Now I don't mean bad, immoral things.  You can still be moral without religion! It's just that, I was very conservative before.  But now I wear whatever I want without worrying if it's too "revealing".  I can listen to the music that I want because I like the tune, instead of shutting the radio off whenever a cuss word comes on.  I don't have to worry about "honoring god" all the time.  It has given me such freedom to be exactly who I am instead of stifling myself all the time.  I've become more confident.  More assertive.  I don't let people take advantage of me nearly as much.

 

I can stop asking god what I should do, and instead decide what is best for myself and those I care about.  It eliminates a lot of the waiting I did before, waiting around for an answer from god.  I trust myself more.  I wanted to choose a career that would be pleasing to god, and I wasted a lot of college years trying to decipher what it was that god actually wanted me to do.  Now that I'm finishing up my undergrad degree, I can choose my grad school based on what I'm passionate about. 

 

All around I am a much MUCH happier person.  It might take a little bit to get used to the idea and settle in to being exactly who you are.  I wish you the best of luck!

Thank you very much. I know it's really depressive thing to lose someone you thought loves you perfectly and then realise that it doesn't exist and you were always talking with yourelf. Religion really destroies people's ability to trust and think for themselves. By the way, what books about evolution can you suggest for me? Because I wasn't interested in evolution before and I have only a superficial knowledge about evolution that gained from high school times.  When I became believer, other christians told that evolution has some errors and even Darwin denied his  correctness of his theory. For this moment it would be great to receive real facts, not just opinions about darwinism. What about the book choice of "The origin of species"? Where did you start from in order to gain some understanding about evolution?

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Hello everyone, I will share my short testimony. yellow.gif  My name is Toma, I‘m from Lithuania and I‘m 20 years old now. By the way, don‘t pay attention to my grammar mistakes.  I had been a christian for nearly 2 years. Simply, I live with my mom who is unbeliever (now I‘m in other city, studying), dad is christian but they are seperated.  I used to visit him once a week. Before the conversion I was really depressed about my life cause I wanted to increase a confidence in myself and I was seeking for the truth, felt lack of love in my life and didn‘t have true friends. I read psychological, philosophy books and started discuss with my dad about purpose and goals of life, about spiritual things and something like that. Of course, he didn‘t accept all the truths I shared with him because he is christian and he gave me to read the „Piligrim process“ by John Bunyan, and later he gave me the bible. So after that I became a christian. During my faith period, I heard people speaking in tongues, experienced  „electric tingles“ or „Holy Spirit touch“ as other christians would say (but still don‘t know how to explain these experiences). It was a huge relief for me because I felt loved, my self-confidence increased. I thought I found the purpose of life.  I left my „wordly“ friends, all my vain activities that distracted me from god. Honestly, I was truly devoted  and fanatic believer , god became the most important thing in my life, he was my best friend, however, then doubt about God‘s love came and step-by-step it led me to the point that I decided to leave this stuff because I couldn‘t take it anymore, my faith disappeared. My doubts had been continuing for almost 3 months (it was the worst part of my life), I mean I was fighting with that doubts in my head for 3 months. It caused me so much stress, panic attacks, anxiety, headaches, I even couldn‘t remember the day when I was okay because every minute I was praying, resisting that doubts with all my efforts, however, there was no peace in my heart, just temporary relief in hoping that everything will be ok and that hope sustained me for a while. I wasn‘t angry at god during this difficult time, I even thought that this suffering will produce some good fruits in me. Happily, it was summer holidays, no responsibilities, lots of free time for battles. During these difficulties, I spent lots of time with my dad asking to pray for me because of devil „attacks“. I got only an advice just simply trust Jesus, and resist that doubts. Yeah..I „simply“ trusted..Wendyloser.gif Here I am, lost all spiritual and physical ammunition and left a battle field. It‘s very strange feeling to be an ex-christian. There are moments of euphora and some moments of an existential crisis, some kind of depression but I'm doing okay. For this moment, I have a question in my head  „what to do next?" Haven‘t you guys questioned that after your deconversion? Wendyshrug.gif Wendytwitch.gif

Hi and welcome smile.png

Im guessing you still believe. Maybe not in the biblical god but one you made up yourself (as many others do).

 

My cat (who is now nick named stinky, since hes farting a lot atm) is my role model in life.

He doesn't believe in god (well unless its him) and he is a sweet loving kind cat. Who has high moral standard (wish is apparently impossible without the love of god).

He only thinks about himself. But he is still kind to others (well unless you step on his tail). 

He doesnt care if god exists. He keeps his small brain busy with things that are more important in life. Like food, getting petted, sleeping, pooping and resiliently farting.

heres a video of him:

 

This might kind of sound like im joking but u am not.

The point is. Nature created us, and WE created religion.

We are the only species on this planet that believes in such a thing as god (and a probably a bunch of other crazy stuff).

Personally psychology helped me a lot to explain stuff.

Humans are the most intelligent and at the same time most retarded species on this planet.

People are also easier to control and manipulate then cats are (unless you hold a steak in front of there noses).

I mean how easy was it to make people belief in a man that kind of looks like Santa with magical powers that created all and can see everything.

Just as easy as making a 6 year old belief in santa.

There is no distinct differences (in intelligence) between a 6 year old and a full grown adult. Its not about knowledge or age, its only about WHAT knowledge.

 

You could look for answer in other religions or in philosophy. However you will never find answers there. Unless you are willing to play stuppid and you take what is given to you. What you will however find is possible answers/explanations for thing there are not concrete answers for.

What is left is you either play stupid and pick one, or stay smart and respect the fact that there are not concrete answers.

 

Emotions come from definitions (actually you whole personalty comes for that).

If you are depressed it is caused be a definition.

To put that in perspective:

Think about an orange.... when you do so.. you will probably have a ton of stuff going true your head.. like how its tastes, how it looks, how it looked in that commercial on tv, where you saw oranges, last time you has orange juice etc etc etc (you could probably write a book about it)..... Now that is your definition of an orange.

Now obviously your definition of god is much much longer.

How the feeling/emotion you get when you think about an orange is caused by your definition of an orange.

Its all about definitions.... just look at why some people are afraid of spiders and other keep them as pets.

 

Now these definitions can be changed, and actually change all the time...

If i would drink spoiled orange juice tomorrow, then my definition of oranges gets updated (automatically).

Now i could also do some research on oranges and update my definition of oranges even more.

(not to mention im also updating my definition of juices, drinks etc)

 

Now somewhere in you definition of god, hell, meaning of life, there is something you are not happy with wish is causing depression.

And those definition atm require an update... wish you are actively doing all the time.

 

Now i would suggest you read the complete opposite of the bible. The satanic bible... But please, dont read it to replace what you believe in.... simply read it to add additional information to your definitions and gain some balance.....

Like when 1 kid hits a other kid.... you dont automatically believe one of the kids... but you listen to both of them... and OF COURSE you don't believe either of them 100% unless you saw it with your own eyes (in wish case listening to both sides would be unnecessary).

 

Anyways, thank you for reading my long boring text, and if you didnt read it well you didnt miss much tongue.png

 

Welcome to the forum and wish you all the best.

 

Thank you for your great post, at first glance it gave me some dose of laugh and a simple revelation.wink.png eek.gif  Sometimes when you try hard in thinking how to live, you read lots of books hoping you will find the truth, search for certainty in life and finally you realize that you will never have that certainty, the only thing is left is to admit that life is uncertain. It looks like our life is like a child's puzzle that lacks of some details, when you think you found that missing details of puzzle, then you notice that puzzle is still not complete, this process is endless. I really liked your given example of cat's life, it's so simple. I also have a cat but haven't noticed such a good prospect of life. Cats don't read self-help books, they just live by their instincts and by being themselves...they know how to live. Of course, we are a little bit smarter that seems to be a problem (more stupid thoughts, imagination that raises lots of needs), and have more choices of surviving and eventually there is a greater strife among homo sapiens. repuke.gif
 
I thought that the process of deconversion will be really difficult, I was really scared of that, but personally I have noticed that I don't need any self-help or philosophy books to support myself because everyhting comes from practice and what fits for one's life, doesn't fit for other's because of different minds maps. It amazes me how brain works like safeguard, brain do its own job of recovery even if it makes some feeble tricks sometimes. I found it helpful to read science books in contrast of philosophical books (I think the philosophers was also brainwashed by christian life or 'proper' life standarts, models at some level). However, science doesn't show the meaning of life but it really sweetens the life. yellow.gif

 

 

I tend to fill my definitions with as much information as i can. Being as open minded as possible.

A little science a little philosophy a little things you would probably call crazy etc..

Take in all the fascinating stuff an making up my own mind or simple mark it as "unknown".

 

Imagine you had all the answers... What would you do then? Wouldn't life be really boring?

Not knowing motivates us to search for answers and gives us some meaning and excitement in life.

Every scientific advancement comes from this drive.

 

How difficult the process of deconversion is depends on how difficult YOU BELIEVE it to be.

You are literally the person who you believe yourself to be.

We all see things different. Or in other words we all live in our own version of reality.

Most commonly described as one sees the glass half full and one sees the glass half empty.

 

Now when i say believe i mean really believe (absolutely without any doubt 110%).

The only way you can however believe something absolutely is true experience/realization.

 

Now i know a lot of people look for something they call "enlightenment".

This however usually results is people searching something supernatural.

If you ask me "what is the meaning of life?" you will get a simple answer:

To follow your joy. (to do what you want to do and have lots of fun)

 

Now religions and so called "paths to enlightenment" tell you what you should do.

Why can we just enjoy life and do what we want? Why do we search for people to tell use how to liv our lifes?

 

If you ask me what enlightenment is i would say:

To grab life by the balls and enjoy it to the fullest. And don't let anything take the fun away from you.

 

Fantasies are fun.

When i was a kid i played the teenage mutant Nina turtles with my cousins.. ya know.. dress up as a turtle and pretend to be one. But even as a kids we still knew we where just playing and didn't really have super power and so (maybe in your case you pretended to be barbie).

It looks to me like adults miss this..

Some people go to these fantasies party's where they like dress up and do role playing...

Some people go to religion and become mentally insane...

And other people stick to harry poter and playing world of warcraft tongue.png

Or do it retro and play nurse and doctor in bed tongue.png

 

Society is messed up, i mean Christians are seen as normal intelligent respected people and people that dress up like fantasies characters and do role playing are seen as crazy outcasts.

If you like to dress up as a fantasies character and do role playing then do it. Who cares what a bunch delusional retards think about you.

 

I agree with you that a process of searching and doing what you like most is the meaning. It's very easy to become frustated in searching for certainty and questioning the meaning of life in some 'popular psychology' books. When you don't seek the meaning and do it what you like then your life becomes meaningful..endless thoughts on this 'meaning' topic. 
Not even the society is messed up but  we cannot change it. I started to notice 'good' people talking about 'bad' ones. The first ones are amazed how these baddies behave and lacks of conscience. I don't know if it's my false opinion or there are other who think same that these baddies were being themselves and did what it looked best for their spiritual and physical existence according to the conscience and desires measure (for example, stealing).
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The way i understand it is:

People never do bad things (within there illusion). They always have a way to justify it or make oke to do.
If the bad thing in there illusion would be considered bad or unjustifiable they wouldn't do it in the first place.

So in other words: right and wrong completely depends on someones delusion.

Funny you say this do, i was going to write a little about the mind of a serial killer in my previous post but intentionally left it out.
Now the majority of serial killers have psychosis/schizophrenia wish damages brain tissue. Wish in "simple" usualy results in the inability of separating reality from phantasy.
They for example here voices that instruct them to kill someone.... In a normal brain... you would think something like "i really hate that guy.. i should shoot him with a shotgun"....... now in a badly damaged brain this can become a voice.. and the person then doesn't know its themselves thinking that but someone telling them to shot a guy with a shotgun.
Now apart from the most delusional ones, the majority of serial killers kill because they get some sexual pleasure from it. They thend to be sadists who see other humans as toys.... in there mind a human is not worth anything.
In there delusional minds what they do is OK, in our minds its horrible.

Fascinating but kind of grows stuff to investigate smile.png

Beats the explanation: "the devil did it" do tongue.png

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Sorry I'm joining the conversation so late.

 

I would encourage you to explore the classic works of Robert Green Ingersoll, a brilliant man who saw religion for the sham it really is. His inspiring speeches and writings are more than a century old, but stand as timeless classics.

 

Here's a link to one: http://www.robertgreeningersoll.org/works-of-ingersoll/why-i-am-agnostic-1896/

 

Wishing you the best,

 

Alpha Centauri

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