How Dare You?

[OnceConvinced]

I am often asked, if you consider yourself an ex-Christian why do you get offended when people tell you, you were never a true Christian?

This is my reply.

It is the principle of the matter. I was a genuine bible believing Christian, who followed Jesus consistently for over 30 years of my life. I have been involved in ministries and leadership throughout most of it. For you to just flag away those 30 years as nothing, is highly offensive. How dare you just fob me off by claiming that I was never a true Christian, especially if you have only been a Christian for a short time. How dare you? The audacity! You can go to Hell!

What also annoys me is that many Christians seem to ignore the many many scriptures in the bible that claim it is possible to become an ex-Christian and grasp hold of one or two scriptures which they interpret as being not possible. They don’t seem to realize that Paul himself considered that he too could fall. Why are you so desperate to paint me as not having been a true Christian? Is it because deep down you are insecure in your own faith and you don’t want to face the possibility you could end up losing your faith too?

So yes, I will take offence if people say I was never a true Christian. That is not because deep down I still believe, it is because I despise the arrogance of that claim. It shows me that certain Christians have a lack of empathy and understanding. They don’t realize just how huge a deal it was for someone like me to go from Christian to Ex-Christian. It was a long painful journey which I never wanted. That’s right, I never wanted to be an Ex-Christian and would rather not be, but there is no choice for me in the matter. I say to you, once you have been a Christian for 30 years or more and gone through trials and tribulations that long and still kept your faith, then you can come back and judge me then, but until then don’t try to tell me what I was or wasn’t especially considering you have no idea of the road I have walked.

My final comments are this: If you are really serious about evangelizing and gaining converts. If you really want to draw an ex-Christian back into Christianity, stop being so arrogant and insulting. All you are doing by claiming that an ex-Christian was never a true Christian is putting up a wall between you and them. All you are doing is showing that you are nothing more special than any other Christian. You are showing that you do not have any desire or ability to understand why someone would fall from the faith. And let’s be realistic here. Do you really think that a person who had spent 20-30 years believing himself to be a Christian when really he wasn’t, would even consider going back to a system that had failed him so drastically? Especially with people who look down their noses at them and see them as somehow inferior? (which is what you are doing when you say “you were not a true Christian”) If someone can go for so long, deceived and have church leaders believing they are a true Christian and no one telling them otherwise, then something seriously doesn’t add up when it comes claims made by Christians AND the bible.

Comments are welcome.

 

Do others here feel pissed off too when people say they were never a true Christian?

[Geezer]

You are correct. I never really was a true Christian. I appreciate the fact that you recognize I never was that gullible, illogical, irrational, or naïve and that I was always able to discern the difference between reality, fantasy, and mythology. I truly appreciate your perceptiveness in my ability to deceive so many for so long though.

 

Please don’t tell other believers it will only embarrass them to find out easy it was for me to deceive them.  If it was that easy for me just imagine how easy it is for the Satan and his demons to deceive them.   

[Geezer]

On a more serious note, why do we care what Christians think? And more importantly why do we think it’s important to affirm that we were once “true” believers? It is almost like saying we once were uneducated gullible morons and we’re still proud of that. True wisdom is knowing when to let go and move on.

 

 

The response that ends the encounter would be, "you are probably right about that." That should take the air out of their balloon.

[wanderinstar]

Onceconvinced, I have yet to be told I was not a true christian (most likely because I haven't told many people of my deconversion) but the three christian friends I have told (one whom is very close to me) remain in total denial of my deconversion. They really believe I am still christian but not aware of it. Despite the fact that I renounce christ, don't believe in the doctrine of sin or any personal, interventionist god. I think this is because I was such a strong christian and they KNEW I believed with all my heart and followed christ to the best of my ability. At least they acknowledge my integrity, I do appropriate that. When talking to my closest christian friend the other day about my deconversion and the deep hurt I went through losing a relationship that I really experienced as the deepest of my life she remain silent, then said, "I don't know what to say'. I am guessing she had this awful choice between believing in the god she loves or the friend she loves. I deeply respect her for keeping her mouth shut and trying not to judge me.

 

When strong, faithful christians who demonstrate faithfulness to god discover their god does not exist, and never really did, the Christians around this person are hit with a major dilemma; do they dare investigate their faith and risk losing it should it turn out to be false, or do they did in deeper to their faith to try and prevent their castle of sand from crumbling. It is not personal when christians tell a deconvert 'you weren't ever really a christian', it is simply their defence mechanisms protecting their faith from the truth that lies in front of them.  

[centauri]

My response is that there are no "true" Christians.

No such creature exists because of the internal contradictions in the concept.

To abide by some of the rules violates other rules.

The hundreds of Christian denominations are evidence of this.

[gall]

On a more serious note, why do we care what Christians think? And more importantly why do we think it’s important to affirm that we were once “true” believers? It is almost like saying we once were uneducated gullible morons and we’re still proud of that. True wisdom is knowing when to let go and move on.

 

 

The response that ends the encounter would be, "you are probably right about that." That should take the air out of their balloon.

 

 

Yeah this and nothing else. How could I care what people I don't agree with about who I once was or was not. In my case I never was as I did not deconvert and simply never agreed. I would be happy to tell them I am not a true anything except human and I am not even sure about that some days.

[angelus5370]

I am often asked, if you consider yourself an ex-Christian why do you get offended when people tell you, you were never a true Christian?

 

This is my reply.

 

It is the principle of the matter. I was a genuine bible believing Christian, who followed Jesus consistently for over 30 years of my life. I have been involved in ministries and leadership throughout most of it. For you to just flag away those 30 years as nothing, is highly offensive. How dare you just fob me off by claiming that I was never a true Christian, especially if you have only been a Christian for a short time. How dare you? The audacity! You can go to Hell!

 

What also annoys me is that many Christians seem to ignore the many many scriptures in the bible that claim it is possible to become an ex-Christian and grasp hold of one or two scriptures which they interpret as being not possible. They don’t seem to realize that Paul himself considered that he too could fall. Why are you so desperate to paint me as not having been a true Christian? Is it because deep down you are insecure in your own faith and you don’t want to face the possibility you could end up losing your faith too?

 

So yes, I will take offence if people say I was never a true Christian. That is not because deep down I still believe, it is because I despise the arrogance of that claim. It shows me that certain Christians have a lack of empathy and understanding. They don’t realize just how huge a deal it was for someone like me to go from Christian to Ex-Christian. It was a long painful journey which I never wanted. That’s right, I never wanted to be an Ex-Christian and would rather not be, but there is no choice for me in the matter. I say to you, once you have been a Christian for 30 years or more and gone through trials and tribulations that long and still kept your faith, then you can come back and judge me then, but until then don’t try to tell me what I was or wasn’t especially considering you have no idea of the road I have walked.

 

My final comments are this: If you are really serious about evangelizing and gaining converts. If you really want to draw an ex-Christian back into Christianity, stop being so arrogant and insulting. All you are doing by claiming that an ex-Christian was never a true Christian is putting up a wall between you and them. All you are doing is showing that you are nothing more special than any other Christian. You are showing that you do not have any desire or ability to understand why someone would fall from the faith. And let’s be realistic here. Do you really think that a person who had spent 20-30 years believing himself to be a Christian when really he wasn’t, would even consider going back to a system that had failed him so drastically? Especially with people who look down their noses at them and see them as somehow inferior? (which is what you are doing when you say “you were not a true Christian”) If someone can go for so long, deceived and have church leaders believing they are a true Christian and no one telling them otherwise, then something seriously doesn’t add up when it comes claims made by Christians AND the bible.

 

Comments are welcome.

 

Do others here feel pissed off too when people say they were never a true Christian?

Hi OnceConvinced,

First of all, this person who told you that was judging, and as a Christian, they should know you don't judge or you will be judged. Second, that person is on a site inhabited by ex-Christians who should be left alone because, you have been through a Christian walk and it wasn't right for you, so you moved on. That being said, that person should not be trying to convert you. Just my two cents as a Christian..............

[ExXex]

So many Christians like to say 'omg the grace of God is UNDENIABLE (and probably make up a cute acronym about how irrefutable it all is) once you have experienced/believed in it', and since when faced with a bunch of people who have believed in God's grace and then rejected it's a bit hard to keep saying it, I get more wearied than offended by people saying 'you never really believed'. I know I believed, more fool me.

 

 

That sounded grumpy, I'm feeling grumpy, not all self-proclaimed Christians are like that, just like not all athiests are like that when the opposite occurs.

[kolaida]

On a more serious note, why do we care what Christians think? And more importantly why do we think it’s important to affirm that we were once “true” believers? It is almost like saying we once were uneducated gullible morons and we’re still proud of that. True wisdom is knowing when to let go and move on.

 

 

The response that ends the encounter would be, "you are probably right about that." That should take the air out of their balloon.

 

 Why do we care what anyone thinks, regardless of their religious affiliation? I keep hearing about how the key to an awesome life is to not care what anyone thinks of you. That seems so hard to do. I don't know if it's in my nature, the anxiety disorder, or that I've been taught since before I could talk that I should think about what I do because God will judge me one day. 

 

So, instead of being defensive and hurt/insulted, simply acknowledge their opinions and try to change the topic. That does make sense, otherwise it is heading towards a debate. 

[gall]

 

I am often asked, if you consider yourself an ex-Christian why do you get offended when people tell you, you were never a true Christian?

 

This is my reply.

 

It is the principle of the matter. I was a genuine bible believing Christian, who followed Jesus consistently for over 30 years of my life. I have been involved in ministries and leadership throughout most of it. For you to just flag away those 30 years as nothing, is highly offensive. How dare you just fob me off by claiming that I was never a true Christian, especially if you have only been a Christian for a short time. How dare you? The audacity! You can go to Hell!

 

What also annoys me is that many Christians seem to ignore the many many scriptures in the bible that claim it is possible to become an ex-Christian and grasp hold of one or two scriptures which they interpret as being not possible. They don’t seem to realize that Paul himself considered that he too could fall. Why are you so desperate to paint me as not having been a true Christian? Is it because deep down you are insecure in your own faith and you don’t want to face the possibility you could end up losing your faith too?

 

So yes, I will take offence if people say I was never a true Christian. That is not because deep down I still believe, it is because I despise the arrogance of that claim. It shows me that certain Christians have a lack of empathy and understanding. They don’t realize just how huge a deal it was for someone like me to go from Christian to Ex-Christian. It was a long painful journey which I never wanted. That’s right, I never wanted to be an Ex-Christian and would rather not be, but there is no choice for me in the matter. I say to you, once you have been a Christian for 30 years or more and gone through trials and tribulations that long and still kept your faith, then you can come back and judge me then, but until then don’t try to tell me what I was or wasn’t especially considering you have no idea of the road I have walked.

 

My final comments are this: If you are really serious about evangelizing and gaining converts. If you really want to draw an ex-Christian back into Christianity, stop being so arrogant and insulting. All you are doing by claiming that an ex-Christian was never a true Christian is putting up a wall between you and them. All you are doing is showing that you are nothing more special than any other Christian. You are showing that you do not have any desire or ability to understand why someone would fall from the faith. And let’s be realistic here. Do you really think that a person who had spent 20-30 years believing himself to be a Christian when really he wasn’t, would even consider going back to a system that had failed him so drastically? Especially with people who look down their noses at them and see them as somehow inferior? (which is what you are doing when you say “you were not a true Christian”) If someone can go for so long, deceived and have church leaders believing they are a true Christian and no one telling them otherwise, then something seriously doesn’t add up when it comes claims made by Christians AND the bible.

 

Comments are welcome.

 

Do others here feel pissed off too when people say they were never a true Christian?

Hi OnceConvinced,

First of all, this person who told you that was judging, and as a Christian, they should know you don't judge or you will be judged. Second, that person is on a site inhabited by ex-Christians who should be left alone because, you have been through a Christian walk and it wasn't right for you, so you moved on. That being said, that person should not be trying to convert you. Just my two cents as a Christian..............

 

 

I have never met a christian that at some level was not trying to convert people. Maybe they are not open about it but it is happening everyday all over the world. People minister missonary and all sorts of other stuff. You might not think that this is right but your religion does and openly so.

 

I agree it is not right to attempt at any level to force your view at others. Chances are they won't listen anyway if you use cohersion or force.

 

What is really distasteful is the ones that after being told no I don't want any come back with something like, "but wait there is more" you return with "a lot more?" and the only response is "...MUCH MORE". The ones that do it won't back down and the ones that don't well they are not the issue here?

 

What exactly are you doing here?

[gall]

 

On a more serious note, why do we care what Christians think? And more importantly why do we think it’s important to affirm that we were once “true” believers? It is almost like saying we once were uneducated gullible morons and we’re still proud of that. True wisdom is knowing when to let go and move on.

 

 

The response that ends the encounter would be, "you are probably right about that." That should take the air out of their balloon.

 

 Why do we care what anyone thinks, regardless of their religious affiliation? I keep hearing about how the key to an awesome life is to not care what anyone thinks of you. That seems so hard to do. I don't know if it's in my nature, the anxiety disorder, or that I've been taught since before I could talk that I should think about what I do because God will judge me one day. 

 

So, instead of being defensive and hurt/insulted, simply acknowledge their opinions and try to change the topic. That does make sense, otherwise it is heading towards a debate. 

 

 

can i just skip step one and ignore their opinions and walk away as though I did not hear them???

[RipVanWinkle]

"Hi OnceConvinced,

First of all, this person who told you that was judging, and as a Christian, they should know you don't judge or you will be judged. Second, that person is on a site inhabited by ex-Christians who should be left alone because, you have been through a Christian walk and it wasn't right for you, so you moved on. That being said, that person should not be trying to convert you. Just my two cents as a Christian.............."

 

Xtians should just shake the dust of their sandals and let atheists go to hell? You see, it is the

absurd belief that puts Xtisns into this ridiculous position of believing that atheists and agnostics

who don't believe like they do are going to spend eternity in hell.This self-centered belief makes

Xtians think that they are so important that, if they don't try to reconvert the these nonbelievers,

the latter may go to hell because of the former. They really think they are that important. bill

[Sybaris]

That's like saying that a person who went to law school, passed the bar, had a practice for 20 years then quit to become a house painter was never really a lawyer.

[ContentedIntrovert]

I heard it a few times in the early days, and at first it really pissed me off. But when I was honest with myself, I had to admit that a small part of me never really bought in. Times I came fully awake in the middle of the night, heart pounding, thinking "what am I doing? Why am I living this way?" So if their definition of "not a true Christian" is "one who never doubts", the only real response I can give is "guilty as charged".Still, none of that changes the fact that the religion is a load of BS.

[angelus5370]

 

 

I am often asked, if you consider yourself an ex-Christian why do you get offended when people tell you, you were never a true Christian?

 

This is my reply.

 

It is the principle of the matter. I was a genuine bible believing Christian, who followed Jesus consistently for over 30 years of my life. I have been involved in ministries and leadership throughout most of it. For you to just flag away those 30 years as nothing, is highly offensive. How dare you just fob me off by claiming that I was never a true Christian, especially if you have only been a Christian for a short time. How dare you? The audacity! You can go to Hell!

 

What also annoys me is that many Christians seem to ignore the many many scriptures in the bible that claim it is possible to become an ex-Christian and grasp hold of one or two scriptures which they interpret as being not possible. They don’t seem to realize that Paul himself considered that he too could fall. Why are you so desperate to paint me as not having been a true Christian? Is it because deep down you are insecure in your own faith and you don’t want to face the possibility you could end up losing your faith too?

 

So yes, I will take offence if people say I was never a true Christian. That is not because deep down I still believe, it is because I despise the arrogance of that claim. It shows me that certain Christians have a lack of empathy and understanding. They don’t realize just how huge a deal it was for someone like me to go from Christian to Ex-Christian. It was a long painful journey which I never wanted. That’s right, I never wanted to be an Ex-Christian and would rather not be, but there is no choice for me in the matter. I say to you, once you have been a Christian for 30 years or more and gone through trials and tribulations that long and still kept your faith, then you can come back and judge me then, but until then don’t try to tell me what I was or wasn’t especially considering you have no idea of the road I have walked.

 

My final comments are this: If you are really serious about evangelizing and gaining converts. If you really want to draw an ex-Christian back into Christianity, stop being so arrogant and insulting. All you are doing by claiming that an ex-Christian was never a true Christian is putting up a wall between you and them. All you are doing is showing that you are nothing more special than any other Christian. You are showing that you do not have any desire or ability to understand why someone would fall from the faith. And let’s be realistic here. Do you really think that a person who had spent 20-30 years believing himself to be a Christian when really he wasn’t, would even consider going back to a system that had failed him so drastically? Especially with people who look down their noses at them and see them as somehow inferior? (which is what you are doing when you say “you were not a true Christian”) If someone can go for so long, deceived and have church leaders believing they are a true Christian and no one telling them otherwise, then something seriously doesn’t add up when it comes claims made by Christians AND the bible.

 

Comments are welcome.

 

Do others here feel pissed off too when people say they were never a true Christian?

Hi OnceConvinced,

First of all, this person who told you that was judging, and as a Christian, they should know you don't judge or you will be judged. Second, that person is on a site inhabited by ex-Christians who should be left alone because, you have been through a Christian walk and it wasn't right for you, so you moved on. That being said, that person should not be trying to convert you. Just my two cents as a Christian..............

 

 

I have never met a christian that at some level was not trying to convert people. Maybe they are not open about it but it is happening everyday all over the world. People minister missonary and all sorts of other stuff. You might not think that this is right but your religion does and openly so.

 

I agree it is not right to attempt at any level to force your view at others. Chances are they won't listen anyway if you use cohersion or force.

 

What is really distasteful is the ones that after being told no I don't want any come back with something like, "but wait there is more" you return with "a lot more?" and the only response is "...MUCH MORE". The ones that do it won't back down and the ones that don't well they are not the issue here?

 

What exactly are you doing here?

 

Did you ever hear that expression, "There are two sides to a story or two sides of a coin?" I know my story, I want to hear other peoples side of their story. I am definitely not here to convert anyone, just seeking knowledge.

[Deva]

Oh yes the "once saved always saved crowd." They must believe that you were never genuine, otherwise their whole false security system would crash.

 

I would also just agree with them.  Really, why would I care what a Christian says about this issue when I have worked on it for over 10 years?

[buffettphan]

I heard it a few times in the early days, and at first it really pissed me off. But when I was honest with myself, I had to admit that a small part of me never really bought in. Times I came fully awake in the middle of the night, heart pounding, thinking "what am I doing? Why am I living this way?" So if their definition of "not a true Christian" is "one who never doubts", the only real response I can give is "guilty as charged".Still, none of that changes the fact that the religion is a load of BS.

 

It used to piss me off too.  But then I realized that somewhere along the line, my attitude had changed.  We should be proud of ourselves for using our (cough - "god-given" - cough) brains!  Who are THEY to question how "god" created us!?!

[Geezer]

angelus5370 said Did you ever hear that expression, "There are two sides to a story or two sides of a coin?" I know my story, I want to hear other peoples side of their story. I am definitely not here to convert anyone, just seeking knowledge

 

 

 

Fair enough. I have no ax to grind with Christians per se. I was, after all, a member of the Christian community for more than 40 years. If you have read any of the stories posted by those who have left the faith I think you will see they have numerous similarities. At some point we became aware of the bibles flaws, inconsistencies, and contradictions. Additionally, at some point in our life we acknowledged some of the more bizarre stories and “miracles” we read about in the bible could not possibly be true.

 

Many of us, before we made the decision to reject religion, did an thorough and diligent study and research of religious history from the historical critical perspective. We read and studied the works of renown scholars who have dedicated their life to this discipline. As it turns out the problem didn’t turn out to be about the reliability of the evidence that would support the bible’s stories, the problem is that there isn’t any evidence. The fact there is no historical Jesus is common knowledge even among apologist.

 

When the secular history of how Christianity and the bible came into existence, and how they evolved over time, is exposed to the light of day a disturbing picture emerges. Additionally, when Christianities sacred beliefs and traditions are traced back to their beginning it becomes obvious that all of it was created by humans. History reveals the doctrine of substitutionary atonement took a thousand years to develop and become accepted. History reveals that all of the sacred beliefs and traditions took eons of time to develop and become accepted.

 

History, or in this case the lack of history, indicates that the gospels were nothing more than oral stories developed by tribal communities that existed for unknown decades before anyone began writing them down. The lack of evidence strongly suggests Jesus, his story and miracles, along with his disciples were the central mythical characters of a mythical story.

 

When religious history is studied, with a truly open mind, it becomes clear the gospel stories were heavily influenced by Pagan, Roman, and Greek mythology. The similarities between the Jesus story and a long list of Pagan dying/rising demigod stories that predated Jesus by as much as a thousand years becomes obvious. The Jesus story is so similar to the Pagan versions that it would be virtually impossible not to see the parallels.

 

In other words, most of us left Christianity for intellectual reasons not emotional ones. Once our blinders came off we could no longer pretend Christianity was based on historical events because the evidence confirms it is based on myths, legends, and folklore. Christianity, in reality, is an adult fairy tale.

[mymistake]

 

 

Do others here feel pissed off too when people say they were never a true Christian?

 

 

No, I laugh at them.  I've never had the privilege of having one tell me that in person but I'm sure it's going to be even funner than seeing it online.  To me it highlights their own ignorance and the emptiness of their own faith.  I know because I was once there.  I was once that guy deciding who was the real Christian and who had never been a real Christian.  During my 33 years as a Christian I did everything one could do for Christianity short of being a missionary or a pastor.  So I know I was as Christian as any layman could be.  Denying the fact that people in Christianity's inner circle can find Christianity disapointing is a tradition that goes all the way back to the New Testament authors.  Because if you start thinking that blindly assuming isn't a good idea then that makes it harder to continue blindly assuming.

 

In 2010 I walked away in disgust over how Christian pastors and evangelists had used tragedy for their own gain.  The first thing I noticed as an ex-Christian was that the Mormons, the SDA, the JW and all the other people that had been on my mental list of "not real true Christians" had just as much claim to Christianity as anybody else.  I had to deconvert to see my own hypocrisy.  

[Aggie]

I'm trying to get myself to the point where I don't react emotionally.  It's very difficult though...  I think the more healthy alternative to anti-fundamentalism is an emotional recognition of its irrelevance (to me personally anyway). Hopefully I'll get better at it...

[deconverted]

Most of you guys are better than me in handling this kind of situation.  I also get pissed off and have had people accuse me of not being a true Christian.  One guy told me that he had know all along (even when I was a "real" Christian) that I was never a Christian!?!?!  He never told me how he came to that conclusion, but it was not a pleasant conversation.  The bottom line for me is, I cannot just laugh it off as easily as most of you who are responding to the OP.  There is something about being falsely accused of something that really gets me in defensive mode.  I really cannot stand to be accused wrongly, even if it is by people who believe in fairy tales or people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[gall]

Most of you guys are better than me in handling this kind of situation.  I also get pissed off and have had people accuse me of not being a true Christian.  One guy told me that he had know all along (even when I was a "real" Christian) that I was never a Christian!?!?!  He never told me how he came to that conclusion, but it was not a pleasant conversation.  The bottom line for me is, I cannot just laugh it off as easily as most of you who are responding to the OP.  There is something about being falsely accused of something that really gets me in defensive mode.  I really cannot stand to be accused wrongly, even if it is by people who believe in fairy tales or people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

You need to take a serious step back from your life and remember one very important thing that matters above all others from the day you reach reason to the day you go in the ground.

 

The only truly valid opinion of you is by you. Others can never see you how you see yourself no matter how many words you use to tell them. Others will judge you. Others will attempt to make you force validate to them. You are never now or ever will be responsible for anyone other than you if you choose not to be.

 

You said it clearly they believe in a fairy tale. How then can their opinion of you hold so much weight in your life?

 

you are the one with reason

you are the one not blinded by false hope

you are the one that decides who you are and who you will be

you are the one who must go to sleep at night with your thoughts.

 

 

you owe them nothing at this point that they are not willing to give to you that I would guess is something we all want...respect.

 

if they can't respect you or your belief system but demand that you do that for them I would say you have a true case of actual douche bag on your hands and like all douche bags they only go in one spot...the trash.

 

How you feel is not something they did to you it is something you are allowing in your life and the only way that will change is for you to take power over your emotions and control them as you choose not how others would choose to influence you.

 

As a large black alien once said. To resist the influence of others knowledge of ones self is most important.

[RipVanWinkle]

"The only truly valid opinion of you is by you. Others can never see you how you see yourself no matter

how many words you use to tell them. Others will judge you. Others will attempt to make you force validate to them. You are never now or ever will be responsible for anyone other than you if you choose

not to be."

 

I agree with almost all of the above quote, but I think it has been taken a little too far. With no

disrespect intended, I don't believe it is possible to see oneself accurately. Therefore, one's opinion

about herself/himself is not completely valid. Some things you can know about yourself that no one else

could know. Some things others know about you that you don't know. Knowing one's self is a continuum;

the more you know and accept yourself, the more mentally healthy you are. It is a goal which is never

fully achievable. That is why the young are more vulnerable than mature adults; the former don't yet

know themselves well enough for self protection.

 

But the bottom line is exactly the same as stated in the above quote: You must get to know yourself so well that, in the final analysis, you and only you know what is best for yourself. And getting to that stage of maturity is indispensable to a self fulfilling life. bill

[R. S. Martin]

That's like saying that a person who went to law school, passed the bar, had a practice for 20 years then quit to become a house painter was never really a lawyer.

 

I really like this analogy. It does no good to argue with the christies and their twisted ideas. However, to claim that one (who actually spent decades believing and living as a Christian) never was a Christian feels like discounting an important part of one's life for which we sacrificed both then and now. Everything else in life to which we devote so much energy receives some sort of acknowledgement. Retired teacher, former dentist, ex-husband. Etc. The skills and experiences gained during or for that segment of life go on resumes, help form future decisions. Life as an ex-spouse is seldom the same as before.

 

So you're divorced. That means you never really were married??? You never really were part of the Bride of Christ?

 

I think we agreed that some people have twisted thinking and they will do anything to maintain those thoughts, even if it means denying the reality of their loved ones' life experiences. Very sad.

[gall]

"The only truly valid opinion of you is by you. Others can never see you how you see yourself no matter

how many words you use to tell them. Others will judge you. Others will attempt to make you force validate to them. You are never now or ever will be responsible for anyone other than you if you choose

not to be."

 

I agree with almost all of the above quote, but I think it has been taken a little too far. With no

disrespect intended, I don't believe it is possible to see oneself accurately. Therefore, one's opinion

about herself/himself is not completely valid. Some things you can know about yourself that no one else

could know. Some things others know about you that you don't know. Knowing one's self is a continuum;

the more you know and accept yourself, the more mentally healthy you are. It is a goal which is never

fully achievable. That is why the young are more vulnerable than mature adults; the former don't yet

know themselves well enough for self protection.

 

But the bottom line is exactly the same as stated in the above quote: You must get to know yourself so well that, in the final analysis, you and only you know what is best for yourself. And getting to that stage of maturity is indispensable to a self fulfilling life. bill

 

The earlier one can teach another person to think for themselves the longer they have to understand that and do good around rather than just wander.

 

I was not referring to children in my statements. Only minds that should have had the time to develop self awareness and then have experience to temper it.