Fear Of Hell Back To Haunt Me

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

 

Most of you know my lovely testamony e.g. The Unforgivable sin yadda yadda yadaa.

 

Well I am also a member of the 'Athiest Forums' online and they have also been a great source of help however alot of their views are just very extreme.

 

I just want to ask peoples advice - I over the last two months had thought I got rid of the fear of going to hell but it seams to have come back full swing.

 

I have found loads of errors in the book of Genesis which makes the hell thing a little more tollerable as I know that if the first book has problems then the likleyness of anyone is up for dispute.

 

Can you advise - I dont think I can de-program myself from the thought of 'Pascals Wager' however I am wondering would me reading the book of Exodus and on through the bible solidify my Athiestic belief or would it convert me back to christianity.

 

I right now maybe believe in 'A' God but if its the one of the bible then we are all screwed.

 

Any advice and encouragement would be great.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Forget Pascal's Wager.  Jesus got nailed to a tree; Thor carries a big hammer.  If I was going to wager on a god, I'd go for the hammer guy.  Reading the rest of the bible might help (I will warn you, it is an extremely tedious chore).  However, I might recommend educating yourself concerning how christianity started, when and how the bible was written, the history of satan etc.

[mymistake]

Well that depends on how you read the Bible.  If you are going to read it as "The Word of God" and assume that your own wisdom and intellect is filthy rags that cannot measure up to the infinite wisdom of God . . . and you are going to assume that the parts that don't make sense are because you don't understand the ancient context or customs and if you will seek commentary and explanations from Christian leaders then reading the Bible will build your faith.

 

If you just read the Bible at face value then that is how most ex-Christians become ex-Christians.

 

It really doesn't matter to me if you become a strong atheist or go back to Christianity or do something else entirely.  It's your life so cope with it however works for you.

[pawn]

The bible is divinely inspired, just as the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao te Ching, the book of Mormon, the Buddhist sutras and the other piles of mythology books written by enlightened holy men.

 

So you better read them ALL, and join ALL the religions, and follow them ALL perfectly or you are screwed!!!

 

Just kidding, the bible is a load of manure. Just another mystical book written by delusional, manipulative men.

[AzariaC7]

Hey there!!! I'm happy I found this thread and I'm even happier you made it.  

I don't believe there is a fiery, everlasting Hell. God would even be more cruel than Satan if there was ever one. I do have this fear, too, so I know how you feel like. Sometimes, the fear crawls at the back of my head and it makes me anxious a lot. I do have a fear of the unforgivable sin, too, so you're not alone. Everything will be fine. Let me start, do you know in the Bible, there is no Hell you're talking about? It does speak of a Hell though, but when I studied it online, it actually means a place/being where the dead have no conscious. The Bible calls that Hell. To some Christians who actually studied the Bible, Hell is the grave. It's just that a lot of Christians don't study their Bible. No diss there. There's a lot of verses saying that the dead can't talk, or don't even have conscious at all. There's also a few verses saying men turn to dust after Adam's sin. If you're not convinced still, take a look at this site if you want more Bible things about Hell: http://www.thetruthabouthell.net/ It talks about what you fear of, that might take a lot of your fear away. I felt free after I looked on that site when I was religious. I also suggest what the others are suggest. Also, read on how the traditional teaching of Hell grew, that might help. I have made THREE threads about my fear on Hell. That probably sure annoyed a lot of people on here ahah! By the way, we're always here for you! We know your pain. 

[Adam5]

..I just want to ask peoples advice - I over the last two months had thought I got rid of the fear of going to hell but it seams to have come back full swing.

 

Hi TheMonkeyMan, good to "see" someone else from the UK on exC.

 

When you think about it, there is no evidence that such places exist.  No one has ever seen them or been there, and no-one can testify they exist.  No one has been there or seen heaven/hell. 

 

Its funny when you see when footballers point to the sky when they score a goal. You get this with other sports.

 

I remember when I used to go to church you would often see the vicar doing the same thing.  Pointing upwards. When speaking of God people often look up or point up.

 

There is no magical place "up there", we know of, its just sky then space. it exists just in the mind of believers.

 

Cheers, Adam

[ShackledNoMore]

It's quite common for fear of hell to linger for some time, and then go away as you internalize what you already know now intellectually: that there is no hell.

 

Just a couple of hours ago, I wrote a post related to this very topic: the idea of hell evolved and was incorporated into fledgling Christianity. Rather than rehashing several paragraphs here, please read my contribution to this topic at my post at this link. I don't know if a person can instantly reason away indoctrinated fears, but I hope that analyses like this and your discoveries of the errors in Genesis are a good start.

 

Also to consider, Pascal's wager specifically presupposes the christian god.  Do you fear retribution from the muslim version of god?  Probably not, because that's not how you were indoctrinated.

[Jds22]

I would suggest the following book

 

[Aggie]

By nature, I am prone to anxiety.  I would go at it like this.  

 

One of the biggest flaws of Pascal's Wager is its simplistic either-or choice.  Pascal himself was a Catholic at a time when Catholics believed that Protestants were damnable heretics.  Protestants thought Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and other types of Protestants were damned.  There is scarcely a conceivable Christian doctrine that there aren't some large number of Christians who regard (or have regarded) as either damnable heresy or utter foolishness. Orthodox Jews used to curse Jesus as damned.  Pagans believed that Christians incurred the wrath of the gods for their "atheism" and caused the fall of Rome.  Most Muslims regard Christians as damned-- many also regard those not in their particular sect as damned.  Buddhists and Taoists have hells, denying the doctrine of reincarnation can supposedly get you there.  No matter what you believe, there are multitudes of people who think you're damned.

 

So be honest, fight your fears, and refuse to be cowed by threats which are based solely on metaphysical speculations.  Courage, honesty, humility, and the acknowledgement of personal failures and limitations are all admirable.  Caving to fear/anxiety and favoring a false metaphysical safety over existential honesty, while understandable human impulses and not a reason for self-condemnation, are things we must strive to rise above.

 

I love this bit I read from Najat (a Sufi Muslim actually).  While I'm certainly no Sufi, I think his general idea applies here ...

 

Listen to Najat, my friend, for this is the only kindness you will receive.

Grit your teeth and sieze your courage

from the nafs that threaten to steal it from you.

 

Demolition is mandatory.

Fear is normal, courage is optional

but highly recommended.

[themonkeyman]

I know what people are saying and that provides me some comfort.  Besides what loving and caring God would torture any of his creation.  I prefer not to believe in a God that would do that.

[owen652]

Pascal's Wager is a false dichotomy. There are not simply two choices to make, there are myriad choices. As others have noted, there are many other religions etc. It's also false in one of its premises; the bit about 'if I'm wrong I've lost nothing.'

Bullshit!! You've wasted your one and only shot at human existence on a ridiculous fairytale. You had one precious chance, and you pissed it away. 

[flockoff]

This is a brilliant answer to Pascal's wager and my favorite youtube atheist video. I've watched it like dozens of times because it's so well spoken:

 

 

I don't know if it's exactly what you need but it's an excellent video.

 

And from what I understand, Pascal himself intended his "wager" as a joke. It was never meant to be what it's treated as now.

[ExCBooster]

Pascal's Wager is a false dichotomy. There are not simply two choices to make, there are myriad choices. As others have noted, there are many other religions etc. It's also false in one of its premises; the bit about 'if I'm wrong I've lost nothing.'

Bullshit!! You've wasted your one and only shot at human existence on a ridiculous fairytale. You had one precious chance, and you pissed it away. 

Other choices pie chart. Note that the monotheist religions are mutually exclusive, cutting their share down to less than a quarter, with the most inclusive interpretations. Very false dichotomy, false premise. I'd follow that up by saying that it would do you some good to seriously study other religions, and see how different the choices actually are. As for non-Christian hell, there's a few important differences: not all Buddhist or Taoist sects believe in it, and you don't get landed in Buddhist or Taoist hell by not believing - that's how people get to be Buddhist and Taoist at the same time. They all have the exact same evidence, after all.