chrisstavrous Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Hello everyone, its good to be back after such a long time. I have been away looking for myself and everything I have lost since I was trapped in that christian cult. Today I realized that my healing has just begun and eveything that I have beeen going through in the last year of my deconversion has been leading up to this. For me my freedom began when I realized that everyone has good in them, even the wost person in the world has good in them. Unlike christianity that brain washes its converts into believing that no one is good without god and why does christianity teach that, well I believe that it does because once you accept that you and everyone else in the world is bad you will have no other option but to accept god on his goodness. It is exactly like an abusive relationship where the abuser tells you that you are trash and they are too good for you, in order to keep you inslaved to a delusion. Christianity is a man made disease with a man made cure (a invented mind virus, god) and for those who try and take the cure once they have gotten the disease, if they accept the delusion thats been told to them then cult bliss. But if for any reason they can not fully accept the delusion, then internal torment untill they do or leave the mind virus behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Nice to see you again. Welcome back. Keep healing and improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 It is exactly like an abusive relationship where the abuser tells you that you are trash and they are too good for you, in order to keep you inslaved to a delusion. That was my relationship to god in my internal life, and my relationship to my church in my external life. I was enslaved and beaten down on both the inside and the outside. Glad to see you again, Chrisstavrous. I have always sensed a painful cynicism in you, which is undoubtedly dreadful for you, but believe it or not, is somehow helpful and cathartic for me. I hope you will stay and continue to share your journey with us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yes, no one is all good or all bad, and goodness doesn't come from god and badness doesn't come from the devil. We live our lives and make our choices, and we learn that when we hurt others that we care about, we can grow from that and make a better choice the next time. That doesn't come from god, that comes from our normal human empathy. And it comes from our normal human maturity that turns from being self-centered as a small child into realizing that other people have feelings too. Some of what xians call "Growing in god" is just what we call "growing up." And some of what xians say comes from the devil, we call accepting responsibility for what we did wrong. I don't do something wrong because I was tempted by the devil and unable to fight that temptation. No, I knowingly did something wrong by my choice, my responsibility. It's my choice to grow up. I'm very new here, so welcome! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Welcome back, Chris. You hit the nail on the head when comparing xtianity to an abusive relationship. It takes being out of it to fully understand how bad it was, since it's not something you see on the inside. I had no idea what a horrible situation I was in until I walked away for good, and it saddens me to know I thought that little of myself to put up with their abuse for as long as I did. At least we're all out of there now, and we can now get on with the lives we deserve. BTW, this reminds me of those power and control wheels. http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/PowerandControl.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 It is exactly like an abusive relationship where the abuser tells you that you are trash and they are too good for you, in order to keep you inslaved to a delusion. That was my relationship to god in my internal life, and my relationship to my church in my external life. I was enslaved and beaten down on both the inside and the outside. Glad to see you again, Chrisstavrous. I have always sensed a painful cynicism in you, which is undoubtedly dreadful for you, but believe it or not, is somehow helpful and cathartic for me. I hope you will stay and continue to share your journey with us. Yes I have wondered that about myself too, but I think that without my cynicism I would not have survived my horrific treatment in christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes, no one is all good or all bad, and goodness doesn't come from god and badness doesn't come from the devil. We live our lives and make our choices, and we learn that when we hurt others that we care about, we can grow from that and make a better choice the next time. That doesn't come from god, that comes from our normal human empathy. And it comes from our normal human maturity that turns from being self-centered as a small child into realizing that other people have feelings too. Some of what xians call "Growing in god" is just what we call "growing up." And some of what xians say comes from the devil, we call accepting responsibility for what we did wrong. I don't do something wrong because I was tempted by the devil and unable to fight that temptation. No, I knowingly did something wrong by my choice, my responsibility. It's my choice to grow up. I'm very new here, so welcome! Christians like to think they have the pattern on inner development and change, but they don`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderinstar Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Every human deserves to be treated with dignity and compassion (yes, even serial killers, although they also deserve to be in jail for the remainder of their days to protect the public). I too have been realising there is no 'us and them' but only humanity as a whole. It really frees me from having to judge people all the time and to accept others and myself, despite any differences we may have. Despite the hype that christians are the most loving and compassionate of all people I have found myself to be able to be much more loving and compassionate without god. Good to have you back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yes, no one is all good or all bad, and goodness doesn't come from god and badness doesn't come from the devil. We live our lives and make our choices, and we learn that when we hurt others that we care about, we can grow from that and make a better choice the next time. That doesn't come from god, that comes from our normal human empathy. And it comes from our normal human maturity that turns from being self-centered as a small child into realizing that other people have feelings too. Some of what xians call "Growing in god" is just what we call "growing up." And some of what xians say comes from the devil, we call accepting responsibility for what we did wrong. I don't do something wrong because I was tempted by the devil and unable to fight that temptation. No, I knowingly did something wrong by my choice, my responsibility. It's my choice to grow up. I'm very new here, so welcome! Christians like to think they have the pattern on inner development and change, but they don`t. Now that you are no longer a Christian you have the opportunity to ignore them and their behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narrowgate Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I too felt it was like a cult. I felt this incredible pressure (they called it "accountability"). The preacher at my church wanted everybody to know everybody else's business (so they could "help" each other, etc.). It creeped me out. I don't want every stranger knowing my personal business and I don't pry into other people's lives either. It takes time to build trust. Just because we were all at the same church, doesn't mean those steps can be skipped over like that. It felt cult-like to me. The small groups was another cult-like thing. I felt that the leaders ( a married couple that were very tight with the preacher) were reporting back to him everything personal that was said during the bible study meetings. I just had this hunch it was happening. We had to give each other prayer cards each week and the leader wife took my prayer card. I put something personal on it. A couple of weeks later, the preacher approached me and that personal detail made it's way into the conversation. Confirmation! There is even software that churches use to keep track of these juicy tid-bits (with names like Servant Keeper and Power Church Plus). I googled this stuff to confirm my suspicion and was shocked to find out I was correct! I found it incredibly manipulative and yes, cult-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderinstar Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I too felt it was like a cult. I felt this incredible pressure (they called it "accountability"). The preacher at my church wanted everybody to know everybody else's business (so they could "help" each other, etc.). It creeped me out. I don't want every stranger knowing my personal business and I don't pry into other people's lives either. It takes time to build trust. Just because we were all at the same church, doesn't mean those steps can be skipped over like that. It felt cult-like to me. The small groups was another cult-like thing. I felt that the leaders ( a married couple that were very tight with the preacher) were reporting back to him everything personal that was said during the bible study meetings. I just had this hunch it was happening. We had to give each other prayer cards each week and the leader wife took my prayer card. I put something personal on it. A couple of weeks later, the preacher approached me and that personal detail made it's way into the conversation. Confirmation! There is even software that churches use to keep track of these juicy tid-bits (with names like Servant Keeper and Power Church Plus). I googled this stuff to confirm my suspicion and was shocked to find out I was correct! I found it incredibly manipulative and yes, cult-like. Now that is sickening and very cultish. What is it with christians and sharing personal information under the guise of 'prayer'. It is gossip, plain and simple. Some christians, I will admit, are very respectful and considerate with personal information but many use it as a manipulative tool to control the herd. I shared my deepest, darkest secrets to christians for the sake of prayer ministry and it certainly changed the way they saw me (and of course no answer to prayer either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I shared my deepest, darkest secrets to christians for the sake of prayer ministry and it certainly changed the way they saw me (and of course no answer to prayer either). I would add a third thing that happens: Not one of them lifts a finger to help with your problems, even if it would be simple and/or inexpensive for them to do. So it's a triple whammy: People gossip about you (or at least think differently of you), nothing comes from the prayers, and no one helps you. Were we schmucks to fall for this or what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Narrowgate: what happened to you is heinous. Sickening, cultish, manipulative. Like RenWoman says above, it's also useless except for them to use as gossip (or worse) since they won't help. There are not enough bad adjectives to describe it. I'm so glad you are out. No, we weren't schmucks. We went into things innocently and trustingly, believing what the church was doing. They took advantage of that trust and innocence. They knowingly manipulated us and we got out when we realized what they were doing. THEY were wrong, and we did the best we could as the situation opened up to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I also was fooled into thinking that if I confess my sins to my christian friends they would know what to do. I saw them as counselors and because of that I did not seek professional help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderinstar Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I also was fooled into thinking that if I confess my sins to my christian friends they would know what to do. I saw them as counselors and because of that I did not seek professional help. This is one of the reasons 'prayer ministry' is so damn dangerous. It creates unhealthy boundaries, usually re-victimizing vulnerable people, and then also prevents the same people from seeking professional help. it makes me so mad that this happened to me, to others and is still happening across the globe. This destructive practice really needs more public attention to help raise awareness so less people get trapped as I, and so many others on this site, did. I also trusted people like you crisstavrous and really thought they could help me as I believed the hype. There really should be laws against religious organisations offering counselling. At the moment they are immune to prosecution for offering counselling without the proper training. My therapist bemoans the fact that I cannot sue those who 'counselled' me. He really believes they did a great deal of harm, while also blocking me from receiving professional treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I also was fooled into thinking that if I confess my sins to my christian friends they would know what to do. I saw them as counselors and because of that I did not seek professional help. As I said in another thread, confessing to christian friends results in nothing but more pain: They think differently of you and/or gossip about you; the prayers don't help (which makes you wonder why god is not intervening -- are you such a terrible sinner? etc.); and the people don't do anything to help even if it is within their power to do so easily and/or inexpensively. Wanderinstar, my therapist also bemoans that I cannot sue the people at my church who emotionally abused and spiritually tortured me. Two weeks before my 40th birthday, she was so alarmed by my physical state that she highly recommended I go away for a retreat weekend, which I did. (A yoga retreat for my 40th birthday -- probably saved my life, and at least my sanity!) It's scary what some of us endured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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