How To Develop Inherent Self-Worth When Your Xtian Family Raised You Without It?

[Prometheus]

I have another post going on here about getting Bible verse emails from my Grandmother, but that led me to post this, because I've been struggling with it lately.

 

I was raised NOT to believe in myself.  In fact, my parents literally told me and my siblings to never believe in ourselves, but to believe only in Jesus Christ, (because without him, my parents implied, we were wretched, worthless pieces of shit).

 

You know that show Arthur?  The one that instills positive messages in children's lives?  The lyrics to the theme song go like this:

 

"It's a simple message and it comes from the heart

Believe in yourself (in yourself)
cause that's the place to start (to start)"

 

My parents wouldn't allow us children to sing that song.  They openly criticized its message and told us that it was wrong.
 

Yeah.

 

I grew up a real piece of shit loser.  I hated myself, I cut myself, I did all sorts of fucked up things.  I literally hated, hated, hated myself.  I hated the world.  I hated my parents for doing nothing but punishing everything I did, and preventing me from LIVING in the least.

 

I still have a really hard time forgiving them.  I hate to say this, but I've sometimes almost felt that once they die I'll be free.  Almost.

So, what do I do?  My self esteem has ALWAYS been based on my image.  I'm kind of became a player, because I was good looking, and I kind of learned how to play confident, and everything, but deep down I had very low self esteem.

 

So where does inherent self esteem begin?  Is there really such a thing?  Do people actually have that?  Seriously.

[Blue elephant]

This sort of miserable negative view of people and life in general is why I left home at 18 and have avoided my mother ever since. I have actively brought my children up to believe that they are great kids and that they can change the world for the better.

 

I know what you mean about feeling that you will be free once they die. But ... if you work hard at staying away from them and don't have in-depth conversations with them, you can have a positive life starting much sooner.

 

Positive self esteem can come from evaluating the things that you do to help others and the world around you. Volunteer work is supposed to be good for the self-esteem. Check out some of the Martin Seligman positive psychology stuff perhaps?

[Adam5]

Hi Prom, here are some thoughts..

 

The way your build up self esteem and keep it at a high level is by positive thinking

 

This can be difficult at first for some, but the way to do it is to start to turn negative thoughts into positive ones.

 

People have a natural tendancy to dwell on the negative and to worry.

 

Dwell on the positive thoughts and feelings, not on the negative ones.

 

Then to make a mind-shift to adjust your mind to positivity.  To be happy you need positive thinking and positive energy, and to be in touch with nature, eat healthily, exercise and enjoy life's simple pleasures.

 

Cheers, Adam

[ExXex]

I bought the whole 'you're worthless' thing too, it's not like I'm the most confident person in the world right now but I'm making steps, it is possible!

I think one of the main game changers was reading that this way of thinking is learnt behavior - so it can be unlearnt. Deciding you do want to change the way you see yourself is probably a good start!

Unless you get donked on the head I doubt anything's going to change overnight, but I think one of the things that has helped me the most is accepting that I'm a 'work in progress' instead of one of the extremes of worthless or extra confident.

[mymistake]

I have a very hard time with this one.  I hate everything I have ever done.  I know it comes from Christianity.  I know it isn't rational.  It's that old "my works are like filthy rags" and the old "my deeds are sin".  I just can't shake it yet.  Every time I remember something I have done it stabs me a bit on the inside.  Terrible way to live.

[kolaida]

Yeah, my parents had a pretty similar message and then were confused when they had kids with low self-esteem. Then once you get away from that thinking, you feel like you wasted huge amounts of your time with it and its frustrating because people you love and care about still believe those beliefs.  I don't know how to get inherent self-esteem, I think mine is still pretty low but not as bad as it once was. 

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the support guys.  I wish I could share my entire story here, but it feels a bit too overboard and it would make me pretty vulnerable, so for now, I'll abstain...

 

I just feel so neurotic, deep deep down.  Like I have no point of reference from which to say, This is Me.  This is Who I am.  When I left home and went to college, I realized the person my parents had raised me to be was just an empty, lifeless clone of their own beliefs, so when I started over, I had to "pick and choose" who I wanted to be, so my resulting sense of identity has always been very very shaky.  I feel like I have borderline personality disorder.  Anyone else here feel similarly?

[kolaida]

Thanks for the support guys.  I wish I could share my entire story here, but it feels a bit too overboard and it would make me pretty vulnerable, so for now, I'll abstain...

 

I just feel so neurotic, deep deep down.  Like I have no point of reference from which to say, This is Me.  This is Who I am.  When I left home and went to college, I realized the person my parents had raised me to be was just an empty, lifeless clone of their own beliefs, so when I started over, I had to "pick and choose" who I wanted to be, so my resulting sense of identity has always been very very shaky.  I feel like I have borderline personality disorder.  Anyone else here feel similarly?

 

That's pretty much exactly my feelings most times.  Been working on it but it is hard and feels like I got a late start. 

[Prometheus]

Yeah, exactly.

 

I think it's because, the way your parents are, is the way you're raised to be, plain and simple.  So if your parents are highly neurotic (mine are tremendously neurotic, and not normal), especially with a neurosis as great as Absolute Faith, then you're basically brought up so as to be unable to function without those same neuroses being a central part of your reality.

 

It's like their neuroses are the glue that holds the universe together.  And so you have to figure out how to unglue the entire Universe and glue it back together... but since life is subjective, you don't know how the fuck to do it...

 

People like us must have so much perspective on life.  That's one of our strengths.

[kolaida]

Yeah, exactly.

 

I think it's because, the way your parents are, is the way you're raised to be, plain and simple.  So if your parents are highly neurotic (mine are tremendously neurotic, and not normal), especially with a neurosis as great as Absolute Faith, then you're basically brought up so as to be unable to function without those same neuroses being a central part of your reality.

 

It's like their neuroses are the glue that holds the universe together.  And so you have to figure out how to unglue the entire Universe and glue it back together... but since life is subjective, you don't know how the fuck to do it...

 

People like us must have so much perspective on life.  That's one of our strengths.

 

Yes, and we probably all think too much, lol.  I tend to overthink things.  

 

Yes, my mother was definitely neurotic, my father I couldn't really figure out, he seemed very laid back and put up with her and expected all of us too and would get angry when we didn't listen to her. My mom pretty much told me at some point she thought I was going to be just like her and growing up I always felt like I was just doing whatever my parents told me.  I very rarely ever felt like myself and even know have trouble with "myself" since myself was defined by being a "strong Christian."  Now, I'm just me.  But sometimes it feels really weird. 

[midniterider]

I have another post going on here about getting Bible verse emails from my Grandmother, but that led me to post this, because I've been struggling with it lately.

 

I was raised NOT to believe in myself.  In fact, my parents literally told me and my siblings to never believe in ourselves, but to believe only in Jesus Christ, (because without him, my parents implied, we were wretched, worthless pieces of shit).

 

You know that show Arthur?  The one that instills positive messages in children's lives?  The lyrics to the theme song go like this:

 

"It's a simple message and it comes from the heart

Believe in yourself (in yourself)

cause that's the place to start (to start)"

 

My parents wouldn't allow us children to sing that song.  They openly criticized its message and told us that it was wrong.

 

Yeah.

 

I grew up a real piece of shit loser.  I hated myself, I cut myself, I did all sorts of fucked up things.  I literally hated, hated, hated myself.  I hated the world.  I hated my parents for doing nothing but punishing everything I did, and preventing me from LIVING in the least.

 

I still have a really hard time forgiving them.  I hate to say this, but I've sometimes almost felt that once they die I'll be free.  Almost.

So, what do I do?  My self esteem has ALWAYS been based on my image.  I'm kind of became a player, because I was good looking, and I kind of learned how to play confident, and everything, but deep down I had very low self esteem.

 

So where does inherent self esteem begin?  Is there really such a thing?  Do people actually have that?  Seriously.

 

Tell yourself something good about yourself every day. Go out of your way to be nice to people and recognize that goodness inside you.

Take a look at some true assholes and see how much better you are. :-)

 

Daily self esteem builders:

 

I did _______ today and it was good.

 

I helped someone by ___________.

 

I am a good person because ________.

 

Write it down. Be creative.

 

It looks like you are on the right path anyway because you are AWARE that you were brought up under some toxic concepts that were lies. I'm sure Amazon.com has some books on self-esteem and confidence.

 

Have a good day.

[slave2six]

This same worldview taught me that "money is bad" and always to think of others first. Consequently, I never believed I was worth anything and so I never even asked myself what activities would make me happy. I completed some college but never graduated and by the time I came to a point where I was able to seek my own happiness, most of my life has passed me by. (Thanks Christianity!)

 

So, my advice, pursue life with vigor. Find an occupation (whether as a profession or a hobby) that brings you joy and devote yourself to it. There is a lot to be said for the pursuit of happiness. But happiness cannot come unless you are looking for something fulfilling to you. That may be a life of service to others or it may be a life pursuing ship building or writing, or oceanography. Only you will know what you find satisfying.

 

Just give yourself permission to be the arbiter of your happiness.

[Sheerbliss]

I've read that positive self-talks works only if you believe it. Do avoid ruminating over things you can't control, like the attitudes of your parents or emails from your grandparents. I think someone suggested a filter for words like jesus, bible, etc., which sounds like a good idea.

 

Have you ever taken a Myers-Briggs personality test? They're free online and they're pretty accurate. They'll probably suggest some jobs or hobbies suited to you. Find something you like, something you can get good at and throw yourself into, and it'll help. Don't be afraid to make mistakes (if you're not making them, you're not trying hard enough) and don't compare yourself to other people (someone will always be better, and it's outside your control). Good luck!

[slave2six]

Thanks for the support guys.  I wish I could share my entire story here, but it feels a bit too overboard and it would make me pretty vulnerable, so for now, I'll abstain...

 

I just feel so neurotic, deep deep down.  Like I have no point of reference from which to say, This is Me.  This is Who I am.  When I left home and went to college, I realized the person my parents had raised me to be was just an empty, lifeless clone of their own beliefs, so when I started over, I had to "pick and choose" who I wanted to be, so my resulting sense of identity has always been very very shaky.  I feel like I have borderline personality disorder.  Anyone else here feel similarly?

 

Absolutely! This is why going away to college is great. What you learn from your parents is simply the basics of what they think and believe. When you get out into the world, you get to question everything and find out who you are.

 

The fact that you are dissatisfied is in fact very healthy and shows that you aren't a mindless clone. So go and learn! Learn in your classes. Talk to other students of different ethnicities and backgrounds. Get to know some professors on a personal level and learn life lessons from them. And as you do, be mindful that you and only you have the right to decide who you are and what you want to be and do.

 

Only be getting to know other people and their histories and life perspectives are we ever going to know who we are. 

 

You are under no obligation to give in to your parents' wishes.

 

In the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," Sidney Poitier's plays a black doctor whose father was a mailman. His dad repeatedly reminds him that "I walked 10,000 miles to give you a good education." To this the son replies:

 

Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing. If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you were supposed to do. Because you brought me into this world, and from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me.

 

As a father, I completely agree. My kids owe me nothing. I have only done what I was supposed to do. Now they owe themselves and it is their right and obligation to do for themselves. 

 

So it is with you. You owe you the very best life you can make for yourself.

[mymistake]

This same worldview taught me that "money is bad" and always to think of others first. Consequently, I never believed I was worth anything and so I never even asked myself what activities would make me happy. I completed some college but never graduated and by the time I came to a point where I was able to seek my own happiness, most of my life has passed me by. (Thanks Christianity!)

 

Hey, that was my life too.  It's almost like we were shaped by the same cookie cutter.

 

 

So, my advice, pursue life with vigor. Find an occupation (whether as a profession or a hobby) that brings you joy and devote yourself to it. There is a lot to be said for the pursuit of happiness. But happiness cannot come unless you are looking for something fulfilling to you. That may be a life of service to others or it may be a life pursuing ship building or writing, or oceanography. Only you will know what you find satisfying.

 

Just give yourself permission to be the arbiter of your happiness.

 

Good advise!

[Positivist]

I'm in the same boat. Now that I'm allowed to have self-esteem, its pursuit will likely become a lifelong issue.

[milesaway]

Getting away from that shit is half the battle. Developing a decent self-image in its place is another story, but it's doable. While my mom didn't knock me down at every turn, some other people in my life when i was a kid made up for it. They're now long gone from our lives, and it took a long time to undo their damage. It's still a work in progress, but I know I've come a long way since then. It's two steps forward, one step back, and in time that will sort itself out.

 

Forgiveness needs to be on your terms, and by your own definitions. Whether that's getting yourself to a point where you can be like, "you know what, that happened a long time ago," or simply moving on with your life in spite of all you've been through, it's up to you to decide. If you can't forgive them, then that's perfectly okay too. It's a hugely personal decision, and nobody has the right to make you feel like crap about it.

 

My short time church hopping did a number on whatever progress I made, and what happened at the last church was a huge setback. My self worth had to have been almost nonexistent if I put up with even half the abuse I endured there. The first two churches I visited, I wasn't there long enough for the shit to hit the fan. I've picked up the pieces, and I've moved on. I deserved way better than what I was getting, and so do you. You deserved it all along. And you deserve a happy life from here on out.

 

BTW, Arthur was one of my favorite shows as a kid. It was the first thing I watched when I came home from school.

[Prometheus]

Tell yourself something good about yourself every day. Go out of your way to be nice to people and recognize that goodness inside you.

Take a look at some true assholes and see how much better you are. :-)

 

You know what, I agree, but I WAS actually an asshole in the past, and I'm trying to forgive myself, but I'm bad at THAT too, because, of course, ONLY GOD can forgive me.  (The reason I was an asshole: my first girlfriend cheated on me, so my subsequent 3 serious relationships ended with me assuming that they would cheat on me and not being able to understand why they were dating me.  I also had no inherent self-esteem to begin with, due to Xtianity, so I ended up being a jerk and screwing everything up.)

 

I remember looking at family photos of me growing up.  When I was from the ages of 0 to 6 or 7, I always had this big, happy grin on my face.  That was the real me.  Unfortunately, from the ages of 7 to 18, that me was totally emulsified into a pile of self-deprecating shit by Christianity.  True story bro.

 

This same worldview taught me that "money is bad" and always to think of others first. Consequently, I never believed I was worth anything and so I never even asked myself what activities would make me happy. I completed some college but never graduated and by the time I came to a point where I was able to seek my own happiness, most of my life has passed me by. (Thanks Christianity!)

 

Same here.  I always thought the pursuit of any material good was an inherent evil, so I never really invested in my future.  I remember one time, I told my parents I wanted to run away and become a heroin addict when I grew up.  Mentally healthy, that is.  I wasn't given the tools to succeed, or the belief that it could even happen.

 

I've read that positive self-talks works only if you believe it. Do avoid ruminating over things you can't control, like the attitudes of your parents or emails from your grandparents. I think someone suggested a filter for words like jesus, bible, etc., which sounds like a good idea.

 

Have you ever taken a Myers-Briggs personality test? They're free online and they're pretty accurate. They'll probably suggest some jobs or hobbies suited to you. Find something you like, something you can get good at and throw yourself into, and it'll help. Don't be afraid to make mistakes (if you're not making them, you're not trying hard enough) and don't compare yourself to other people (someone will always be better, and it's outside your control). Good luck!

 

I have taken that, actually, and I always score INFP.  The thing is, I always tell myself that's the shittiest possible score on that test.  Like all the traits are worthless.  I can't see the value in it.

 

In the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," Sidney Poitier's plays a black doctor whose father was a mailman. His dad repeatedly reminds him that "I walked 10,000 miles to give you a good education." To this the son replies:

 

Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing. If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you were supposed to do. Because you brought me into this world, and from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me.

 

As a father, I completely agree. My kids owe me nothing. I have only done what I was supposed to do. Now they owe themselves and it is their right and obligation to do for themselves. 

 

So it is with you. You owe you the very best life you can make for yourself.

 

 

This is some great advice.  True story: sometimes, when I'm at my house and arguing with my parents, just seeing my mother cry makes me ALMOST think about just saying, Fuck it, I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior, I'm sorry, blah blah, just so she'll be happy.  Like I owe it to her or something for all she did for me.

 

Fucked up, that is.  Damn, I would make a good Christian though, being of such a meek spirit.

 

 

Getting away from that shit is half the battle. Developing a decent self-image in its place is another story, but it's doable. While my mom didn't knock me down at every turn, some other people in my life when i was a kid made up for it. They're now long gone from our lives, and it took a long time to undo their damage. It's still a work in progress, but I know I've come a long way since then. It's two steps forward, one step back, and in time that will sort itself out.

 

Forgiveness needs to be on your terms, and by your own definitions. Whether that's getting yourself to a point where you can be like, "you know what, that happened a long time ago," or simply moving on with your life in spite of all you've been through, it's up to you to decide. If you can't forgive them, then that's perfectly okay too. It's a hugely personal decision, and nobody has the right to make you feel like crap about it.

 

My short time church hopping did a number on whatever progress I made, and what happened at the last church was a huge setback. My self worth had to have been almost nonexistent if I put up with even half the abuse I endured there. The first two churches I visited, I wasn't there long enough for the shit to hit the fan. I've picked up the pieces, and I've moved on. I deserved way better than what I was getting, and so do you. You deserved it all along. And you deserve a happy life from here on out.

 

BTW, Arthur was one of my favorite shows as a kid. It was the first thing I watched when I came home from school.

 

Sorry about your story.  I stayed out of church from 2006 (after I was excommunicated [score!]) to 2013, when I finally went JUST to please my parents, whom I had been living with for a couple months.  Worst mistake ever.  I came home so angry and frustrated that I kicked a cupboard door in and broke it to pieces.  I felt even more terrible after that.

 

Go Arthur!

[Blue elephant]

For me, the process has made me reject everything that my parent stood for in a very active way. This has included a lot of irrational clap-trap beliefs about many and varied things (over and above the Christian clap-trap). So I have become an intense believer in "where's the evidence?".

 

The intense rejection has worked after many years!

[Pantophobia]

Same boat here, too, guys. Between "have mercy on me, a poor miserable sinner" and "do unto others! Turn the other cheek! Forgive!" I reached adulthood believing that I was unworthy of life and love, and it was only by the grace of God that the sun even shone on my head. I existed to be tested and punished for not being "good enough" and "kind enough." At my Christian school, we were told that the song "The Greatest Love of All" was evil, because it put "yourself" before God. Because fostering a sense of self-worth in children is EVIL?! Okay, sounded right to me at the time. Combine that with all the gender issues in my family and there's your recipe for many years of female martyrdom and believing I was worthless, existed only to help others, and deserved zip zero in terms of blessings and happiness. 

 

So, if you hate yourself and think you're worthless, what does that make the people who love you and want to be around you? What kind of people do you attract? Yeah. Exactly.

 

Like a lot of us, Prometheus, you recognize that these are unhealthy and unproductive messages. They can be changed. It takes a LOT of time and effort, but it's possible. What worked for me might sound strange, but it was tremendous. When I first started therapy intensively in my mid-twenties, I found myself thinking of the child I had been, age 12, 8, even 3, and hating that person. HATING a 3-year-old child for being vulnerable, stupid, and a victim. Again, not healthy. But once I recognized that it wasn't her fault, but the fault of the adults around her for not doing their parental jobs, and for bombarding her with the message that she was worthless, something inside me shifted. You'll notice I'm thinking of the child I was as "her"? That's exactly what happened. The child I used to be was suddenly with me as an adult as a very visceral separate entity. At first, I started just talking to her. I could see the three- and four-year old child about to be molested, or not getting why Daddy left, and where her mother had pushed her aside and said "Don't be so clingy," I could explain to her what she needed to hear. "You're not too needy, everyone needs love. Your instincts about what your cousin is doing to you are spot on, and he's wrong, not you. Your mom and dad are practically teenagers themselves, and don't get it. This isn't your fault."

 

As I did that, I noticed, over time, that the me I was thinking about was increasing in age. So I decided to go with it. For several months, I mentally addressed the child I was as if she was my companion. I took her with me places, like the Zoo, and when she got lost and was terrified at age 5, I could tell her that God hadn't forgotten her and punished her because she was bad. When all of her emotional needs were supposedly met by the message from adults to "Pray! God said 'fear thou not, for I am with thee," I could acknowledge that although they meant well, that was utter bullshit. I could confront the adults who abused and molested me and say, "No, you were wrong, and I don't have to forgive you, and it's not going to eat me up inside for the rest of my life, either." For all of the key moments in my life where the adults around me told me I was worthless, stupid, needed to be more giving, had to put others first, and forgive those who hurt me, I could go back and replace the damaging messages with healthy ones.

 

In essence, I went back and re-raised my own childhood self.  

 

Even my therapist thought it was a little strange, but for me, it worked. I think, too, one of the important things is that it made me focus inward for fulfillment instead of looking for it in other people (either though "good works" or relationships or whatever). Since you've indicated you regret many of your own assholeishness in the past, it might be worth revisiting them for yourself, and seeing where healthier messages could have replaced the asshole ones? And once you believe you are a whole and worthwhile individual, you'll find you attract like-minded people, too. 

[kolaida]

Same boat here, too, guys. Between "have mercy on me, a poor miserable sinner" and "do unto others! Turn the other cheek! Forgive!" I reached adulthood believing that I was unworthy of life and love, and it was only by the grace of God that the sun even shone on my head. I existed to be tested and punished for not being "good enough" and "kind enough." At my Christian school, we were told that the song "The Greatest Love of All" was evil, because it put "yourself" before God. Because fostering a sense of self-worth in children is EVIL?! Okay, sounded right to me at the time. Combine that with all the gender issues in my family and there's your recipe for many years of female martyrdom and believing I was worthless, existed only to help others, and deserved zip zero in terms of blessings and happiness. 

 

So, if you hate yourself and think you're worthless, what does that make the people who love you and want to be around you? What kind of people do you attract? Yeah. Exactly.

 

Like a lot of us, Prometheus, you recognize that these are unhealthy and unproductive messages. They can be changed. It takes a LOT of time and effort, but it's possible. What worked for me might sound strange, but it was tremendous. When I first started therapy intensively in my mid-twenties, I found myself thinking of the child I had been, age 12, 8, even 3, and hating that person. HATING a 3-year-old child for being vulnerable, stupid, and a victim. Again, not healthy. But once I recognized that it wasn't her fault, but the fault of the adults around her for not doing their parental jobs, and for bombarding her with the message that she was worthless, something inside me shifted. You'll notice I'm thinking of the child I was as "her"? That's exactly what happened. The child I used to be was suddenly with me as an adult as a very visceral separate entity. At first, I started just talking to her. I could see the three- and four-year old child about to be molested, or not getting why Daddy left, and where her mother had pushed her aside and said "Don't be so clingy," I could explain to her what she needed to hear. "You're not too needy, everyone needs love. Your instincts about what your cousin is doing to you are spot on, and he's wrong, not you. Your mom and dad are practically teenagers themselves, and don't get it. This isn't your fault."

 

As I did that, I noticed, over time, that the me I was thinking about was increasing in age. So I decided to go with it. For several months, I mentally addressed the child I was as if she was my companion. I took her with me places, like the Zoo, and when she got lost and was terrified at age 5, I could tell her that God hadn't forgotten her and punished her because she was bad. When all of her emotional needs were supposedly met by the message from adults to "Pray! God said 'fear thou not, for I am with thee," I could acknowledge that although they meant well, that was utter bullshit. I could confront the adults who abused and molested me and say, "No, you were wrong, and I don't have to forgive you, and it's not going to eat me up inside for the rest of my life, either." For all of the key moments in my life where the adults around me told me I was worthless, stupid, needed to be more giving, had to put others first, and forgive those who hurt me, I could go back and replace the damaging messages with healthy ones.

 

In essence, I went back and re-raised my own childhood self.  

 

Even my therapist thought it was a little strange, but for me, it worked. I think, too, one of the important things is that it made me focus inward for fulfillment instead of looking for it in other people (either though "good works" or relationships or whatever). Since you've indicated you regret many of your own assholeishness in the past, it might be worth revisiting them for yourself, and seeing where healthier messages could have replaced the asshole ones? And once you believe you are a whole and worthwhile individual, you'll find you attract like-minded people, too. 

 

 

This is perfect and I'd say that communication reminds me of the speaking to one's various "inner selves" meditation (Abandoned Child), which I don't think is at all strange.  It's the only form of meditation that has made a lot of sense to me (but also the most intimidating).  

 

I think that first paragraph was a perfect summation of my feelings (and probably a lot of others around here) until I was around 25/26 and then ultimately at 27 is when I really began to reconsider them and 28 even moreso, after I discovered this site coupled with anxiety therapy.   I also thought the sun only shone because God made it shone and I was such a worthless human being and should just be OH SO GRATEFUL I was raised with people that had revealed this knowledge to me so I could have the relationship with God and grovel for forgiveness for just how worthless I was. It was extremely confusing for me as my mother was so focused on appearances and I was taught not to be vain so I don't know. The whole thing was ugh. Now, I think, how can anyone possibly want someone to think they are not worthy?  But I guess maybe those people do on some level? Or maybe they just have been too messed up by that line of thinking, who knows.  But once you realize it, as milesaway said, that's half the battle.  My mother had a lot of her own issues and instead of getting treated, acted as though her kids were her therapists. I don't have a problem with parents that confess their trouble to their kids with no expectations and just out of love and concern, but I do have a problem when said parent will punish you at nine, ten, twelve, etc with a spanking while ranting about their childhood beforehand and how dare you put them through this after everything they'd been put through. 

 

It's just hard at first and probably will be for awhile. I'm hoping, hoping over the next couple or few years I can get what I've wanted for awhile (a steady job where I'm not totally scraping by and a long term relationship that I was too terrified to have and didn't think I was good enough to have when I was a Christian-- oh so terrified to "lust" after someone or have sex with anyone but my husband). But sometimes, I just feel like I'm totally lost with no direction.  My goals were all related to Christianity for a good twenty years and now they're not and I'm not even sure if I'd have still wanted to pursue those avenues or not.  But we'll get there, we'll all get there on way or the other.  And we're all worthy individuals.  

[milesaway]

Getting away from that shit is half the battle. Developing a decent self-image in its place is another story, but it's doable. While my mom didn't knock me down at every turn, some other people in my life when i was a kid made up for it. They're now long gone from our lives, and it took a long time to undo their damage. It's still a work in progress, but I know I've come a long way since then. It's two steps forward, one step back, and in time that will sort itself out.

 

Forgiveness needs to be on your terms, and by your own definitions. Whether that's getting yourself to a point where you can be like, "you know what, that happened a long time ago," or simply moving on with your life in spite of all you've been through, it's up to you to decide. If you can't forgive them, then that's perfectly okay too. It's a hugely personal decision, and nobody has the right to make you feel like crap about it.

 

My short time church hopping did a number on whatever progress I made, and what happened at the last church was a huge setback. My self worth had to have been almost nonexistent if I put up with even half the abuse I endured there. The first two churches I visited, I wasn't there long enough for the shit to hit the fan. I've picked up the pieces, and I've moved on. I deserved way better than what I was getting, and so do you. You deserved it all along. And you deserve a happy life from here on out.

 

BTW, Arthur was one of my favorite shows as a kid. It was the first thing I watched when I came home from school.

 

Sorry about your story.  I stayed out of church from 2006 (after I was excommunicated [score!]) to 2013, when I finally went JUST to please my parents, whom I had been living with for a couple months.  Worst mistake ever.  I came home so angry and frustrated that I kicked a cupboard door in and broke it to pieces.  I felt even more terrible after that.

 

Go Arthur!

 

 

Thanks! I got to thinking the other day about how far I've come since walking away from religion for good, and I'm doing great. If going to church set you back in your journey out of religion that much, then it's a sign that this is something to be done with. Even if it's just to make your parents happy, it's not worth it. I hope there are other ways to make your parents happy that don't involve religion.

 

Hell yeah, go Arthur! 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The greatest thing you can do for yourself is to do something great for somebody else.