Struggling For Meaning

[CarpeDiem]

I haven't sorted through enough of my thoughts to be able to write a full testimonial yet, but in short, I feel like the prisoner coming out of the cave looking toward the light in Plato's allegory.  I'm starting to open my mind up to more rational and scientific thinking that has shed light on the utter ridiculousness of some of Christianity's claims.  I'm moving closer and closer (if not already, though hard to admit to myself) to becoming an atheist.  But it is extremely painful for me, not unlike darkened eyes being blinded by the sun.

 

This is quite scary for me (understatement).  Many people post here about their problems with Christianity and how much it ruined their lives.  For me, it was very much the opposite.  Christianity has only ever been good to me.  I've spent my whole life being "sold out for Jesus" trying to follow his example and that has only produced in my life a meaningful and worthwhile purpose that almost everyone (including nonChristians) would support.  It has motivated me to sell most things we have in order to serve others, love completely and inclusively, live simply, give generously, make conscientious global and local choices, strive toward sustainability, and fight human pain.  It has motivated me to spend my life stopping many of the great injustices in the world including hunger, poverty, rape, human trafficking, lack of education, etc. And I did all of this joyfully, never compelled by manipulation or guilt.  

 

In addition, Christianity gave me great hope in eternity.  I believe that the injustice in the world that we couldn't stop now would be met with justice in heaven.  I believed those who died in pain, suffering, and utter hopelessness would be brought into the everlasting arms of the Savior in paradise.  I believed I would be with all my loved ones forever, and most of all, with Jesus -- the one that I loved more than anything.

 

And now... I feel like all of that is gone.

 

Many times I wish I could just believe again because it would restore the joy and hope in my life that I once had.  But belief is not a choice, it is something I am compelled toward based on evidence.  I can't just "unknow" something.  I can't pretend like I'm looking at reality instead of shadows once I have seen glimpses of the light outside of the cave.

 

My husband (who was also a radical Christian) and I have been on this journey toward enlightenment for awhile now.  He feels the effects of losing faith as gaining so much more.  He feels free, excited, happy to be in the light of truth of atheism.  I, on the other hand, struggle daily.  I search to find meaning but everything feels so empty.  It's about as dark of a place as I have ever been before.  In the past when I would feel low, I would turn toward God.  He and I would talk for hours, I would be comforted and feel totally loved.  Now, there is no one there for me to talk to.  He is gone.  

 

And I feel so alone.

 

This loneliness is compounded by our community.  Almost everyone in our life, our friends, family, church, community...everyone.. is Christian.  I used to be totally open about my life and thoughts, working through theological issues or just daily life problems with these people.  I was free to be me. I had amazing relationships everywhere I turned; life was perfect.  Now, I feel completely isolated and unable to talk to anyone about any of this-- except for my husband, but again, we are on such completely different pages in our recovery from faith that it is difficult to find relief there either.

 

Has anyone struggled through any of this?  How do you deal with the loneliness, hopelessness, the lack of sense of purpose in life that comes with becoming an ex-Christian?  I don't know how to handle this.

[NeverAgainV]

Hi CD,

 

Everyone's journey is different.  For me, i was devastated when i realized all i had believed was a fairytale. It was all difficult to get over, but what
I missed the most was the Certainty. I was certain there was a god and I knew that god, through the bible and i was certain i had found the "true church"...

and I was certain i had the "truth"...

 

I went from that to a leaf blowing in the wind. I had no idea where I was headed, but for sure knew where i was NOT headed.

There was an emptiness, but I over time I knew I needed to fill it with the now, with good information, with logic...coming here helped me immensely.

To this day I can't say I'm an Atheist, I really really want to believe that there is more, something better than this. I still want to believe there is something

good in the universe, that maybe cares about humankind, then when i look at the suffering in the world, that many xians ignore, I wonder, why are things

the way they are in this world? So much heartache and tragedy everywhere you look. Though a very good amount of it I think is caused by religion, the way

humans treat other humans in the name of their god or religion has caused much heartache and suffering.

 

But that's another subject.  It is a very lonely road the one you are on in some ways because it's all YOURS. No Jesus or God or saints to carry the burden, you have

to do it yourself. Though there are people like us, who certainly understand to some degree what you are going through, ultimately you go through the fire and

come out on the other side with just you. and that's OK.

 

Because religion had been such a huge part in my life there was an emptiness for sure. I tried to fill it with creative pursuits, physical pursuits and keeping busy.

Living in the now and also learning as much as I could about religion, cults, the things that pertained to my situation.

 

I'm sorry you feel alone. In some ways it is a lonely journey, but you have us here. Also I do hope eventually you will meet others who have travelled a similar path.

I go to Humanist Society meetings and help w/ their soup kitchens from time to time. I have met some nice people who had similar experiences w/ religion.

I'm sure you can find others like yourself if you need the camaraderie, however it might take a while since most people in the US are Christian....

Stick around here and hopefully that will help you.

 

Take care and if i've rambled i'm sorry...it's late and i'm a bit tired. so please forgive.  LOL

[RaLeah]

It's totally normal to feel a sense of loss. 

 

There were things I loved about Christianity too. My parents are very religious, and growing up in a sheltered environment kept me safe from... well, any temptation... while my brain was still developing through adolescence. I didn't drink or smoke or even date. I got to make my adult decisions as an adult, because my childhood was completely protected. Now, in retrospect, I understand that a lot of my friends grew up in households that weren't so restrictive, and they matured earlier and didn't get into early trouble anyway. I gave Christianity the credit, but really it has more to do with parenting, social values, open and honest communication, and your own genetic makeup (personality, character, etc.)

 

I had trouble sorting out what values I got as a Christian, and what I would value and care about anyway. (Feeding the hungry, standing up for the oppressed, speaking out against injustice.) You are a kind person regardless of your religious or spiritual beliefs. Personality is determined by your nature and nurture. You are who you are regardless of your spiritual beliefs. 

 

Yet it can still feel lonely to lose "God" as someone you can always talk to, who is always on your side, who directs your life and opens opportunities or sparks your intuition for what steps you should take next. 

 

It IS scary to lose that when you've depended on it for so long. Of course it is. Of COURSE it is. 

 

It's like losing a friend or a parent. It's very hard. No one is saying it isn't. But once your brain realizes it was never there all along... you can't go back to delusion, no matter how lovely the delusion was. It is like realizing Santa Claus isn't real. It's sad. It's a wake-up you never expected or wanted. 

 

But you've woken up. And it does get easier. It really does. It seems impossible when everyone has always told you that THIS is the way the world works, and then you realize it isn't. You can't imagine it will ever be okay again. But it is. And it does stop feeling scary and alienating and empty. Your brain will sort this out, but you have to give it some time to adjust and re-figure out life as you know it. It will. YOU will. Transition times are often scary and uncertain, but you can get used to new realities because the human brain is super adaptable and strong. You are going to be fine. 

 

Be nice to yourself during this time, and be patient as your brain settles into the new truth it discovered. It's pretty earth-shattering and life-changing, but where you come out on the other side is wiser and even more and understanding and kind and... deep down... relieved. Because... no hell. No vicious God that condemns people to an eternity of suffering. Giving up the concept of heaven is easier because it doesn't come at the expense of the majority who supposedly go to hell. 

 

We all know though. Some parts of Christianity are hard to give up--a loving God always there for us directing our path, a heaven of paradise for us.... but there are so many good things about letting go--That terrible tempest in my head telling me most of the Bible made no sense: the Garden of Eden once I saw fossil evidence for evolution, the absurdity of Noah's ark, the obvious adaptation of previous myths to biblical stories, Paul's misogynistic writings, the violence and genocide in the old testament, etc. 

 

You'll be okay with this, you will. It's hard at first, but it gets a lot better, happier, easier. And you know what? This site is a great place to come to for support and doubts and questions. You can do this. You can. And we're all here to help.

[mydisplayname]

Has anyone struggled through any of this?  How do you deal with the loneliness, hopelessness, the lack of sense of purpose in life that comes with becoming an ex-Christian?

 

Your first post. Welcome.

 

Don't expect all the answers immediately though. Deconversion is a process and sometimes you think at long last I've finally sorted through all of my concerns and then BHAM, you realise there's one more.

 

You're at the right place though. I don't think there is a better place in all of the internet land to go to when you're deconverting.

 

Lack of sense of purpose in life. 

I felt exactly like that.  I had to realise that I'm not special. I'm not a beautiful and unique snowflake. I'm the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. God did not have a plan for me. I had to prioritise what is really important for me and that became my purpose. It's not as elegant as being destined to be gods disciple and free souls on god's behalf, but it's something and it's still important, to me.

 

Loneliness.

This also shall pass, but it still sucks. I too lost all my friends. Not so much because they ignored me, but rather because I realised I don't want to be around people who can't think for themselves. I have a two year old and I realised that I don't need people. I make my own people.

 

Hopelessness. 

I'm interested in why you would say you feel hopeless. I didn't really experience that as a non-believer, rather I experienced that as a Christian when attending church and hearing how lost the world was.

 

It was nice to hear that we were loved unconditionally. I always felt so nice and warm inside when hearing this. Unfortunately it's not the truth. 

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." -  George Bernard Shaw

 

I hope to hear much much more from you. Remember, deconversion is a journey. Take your time and enjoy the ride.

[Adam5]

Hi CD, welcome to the forum. We find meaning and purpose in life in real things rather than imaginary things. A belief in an afterlife and in God or gods is a false answer, as these things do not exist except in the mind.

 

I am a little suprised Christianity has just been good to you. If you think back to when you were a Christan, I would guess there would be times where you struggled with uncertainty, had doubts over the violence and insane laws in the old testament, fears of hell and confusion over the absudity of it all.

 

Removing biblical nonsense from your life frees you up

 

You no longer have to carry around the burden of the fears and worries that go with Christianity. You can just get with real life and be yourself.

[Margee]

Welcome CD. Thank you for sharing  today. Your post made total sense to me. thank you for that. It showed me why I also stayed in Christianity for so long. Some of my happiest memories were when I was full of faith and believed that Christianity was the only true religion. it was magical to think that the creator of the heavens was looking out for you. I felt his presence all the time (in my mind of course... ) I was a 'do gooder' like everyone else on Ex-c and wanted to help the whole world. And I've often said (not here) that following the lord for so many years kept me out of a lot of trouble that I wanted to get into!!!

I got in enough trouble even while following the lord!!      Lol

 

The hardest part for me was to give up the magical thinking. I held on to that even after I gave up the Christian god of the shys. I went looking for the 'real' creator. I'm left being an atheist because nothing...absolutely nothing can explain away the suffering that humans must go through except evolution. I didn't want it to be that way. I like magic.

 

I think this is the first time in my life that I actually do take time to look at the roses now. I don't think I'll ever see them again after I die...so I better enjoy the rest of this trip on earth because it  doesn't look good to me as far as an afterlife goes. And yes, I'm still very sad about this except that each day, I seem to be accepting it a little more and I try to make the best day I can for me and my community. I still love to help. I still hate...no...despise, human suffering, so I'm trying to contribute as much today as I did back in the days of going to church.

 

I'm so glad you are here with us. At least you are 'home' with a bunch of others who are experiencing the same heartbreak as yourself. There is comfort in that. Now we can all continue to help each other. Big *hug* for you today.

[Burny]

Welcome. And sorry that the fairy tale ended for you - I think most of us on Ex-C understand exactly what you're going through.

 

As someone who sounds like your husband, with a wife who sounds more like you I can relate to your situation. I am (mostly) happy about losing our faith while my wife is feeling very lonely and often depressed over it. Like others have pointed out - once you've seen the light there is no going back, no matter how much you may want to. My wife laments more often that she wishes she never opened Pandora's box. It's like the guy in the Matrix who knows the steak isn't real but he doesn't care. It still tastes good! Except religion tastes so empty when you know it isn't real...

 

Both my wife and I come from a deeply religious, Calvinist background. Neither of us ever knew a single Atheist growing up and I think we're probably the only Atheists that anyone in our (large) families have ever known! We were raving xtians only 1 year ago! We are very, very alone in our battle and everyone from our former xtian life is too damn scared to even remain close to us. They're so scared they won't even try evangelizing to us in case they get "infected" by the same devils that are infecting us right now. I have brothers who are extremely intelligent and can rationalize anything, so there is no understanding for our plight. 

 

Everyone thinks we made a conscious choice to fuck up our lives but what they refuse to acknowledge is that for us (and most ex-c), Atheism wasn't a choice at all! It was a realization! Once you realize that 2+2=4 and not 5, how do you unrealize that obvious fact?!

 

Anyway, know that you're not alone. There are many thousands of us, hopefully even millions. Eventually we will have to find meaning outside of everything we once held as truth, but this will take time. A lot of it, I'm afraid.

 

Head's UP!

[disillusioned]

Hi CD. It's nice to see another new member.

 

Many times I wish I could just believe again because it would restore the joy and hope in my life that I once had.  But belief is not a choice, it is something I am compelled toward based on evidence.  I can't just "unknow" something.  I can't pretend like I'm looking at reality instead of shadows once I have seen glimpses of the light outside of the cave.

 

This is very true. It's one of the points I always come back to when discussing my deconversion with my family. I can't choose to believe in Christianity any more than I could choose to believe that Elvis is alive. It isn't what we want to be true that matters. It's what is actually true. You deserve major congratulations for having the courage to recognize this.

 

Having said that, the realization that Christianity is false does not necessarily entail that there is no meaning or purpose to life. It just means we don't fully understand what it is. For me, the recognition of this mystery is one of the things that makes life beautiful and worth living.

 

It sounds as though you are a wonderful person, who has done quite a lot of good. Just because you did many of these wonderful things in the name of Christianity does not in any way decrease the value of what you have done. There may be eternal solutions to the injustices of the world, and there may not. For right now, all we can do is try to do the best we can with what we have.

 

It will probably take some time to reach a point where you are "ok" with being a former Christian. Just remember that you are not alone.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Wow.  I am so sorry to hear that you are struggling so much.  Deconversion can be one of the most difficult things to go through.  Loneliness, depression, disillusionment, and a sense of abandonment are all too common.  For me, the disillusionment was the worst: realizing that my entire life had been built on a lie.  It nearly killed me.  But there is hope and support on this website.  Please stay close to us over the next little while so that we can help you.

 

I'm sure you realize that you can still do all the altruistic things as an ex-christian that you did as a believer.  Filling up your life with activity will help you get through the next few steps of the process.  I've always said the best thing you can do for yourself is to do something great for someone else.  Remember that this, too, shall pass and that we are always here for you.  Hang in there and hang out here.

[ExCBooster]

Hello and welcome!

 

I think your profile name really has words to live by: carpe diem - seize the day. You feel helpless and lost, but, in losing faith, you've gained a very quiet, but immense power. Discover it. Faith requires you to give up this strength to something else, to trust on something that isn't there to change the world for you, to give purpose to you, to determine for you what your values and aims should be. Without faith, you gain back the power to do all of these things for yourself. You decide what ethics you hold. You determine what the purpose of it all is.

 

There is no higher power - you can see this as a lack of something, as something missing that gives purpose. Or - there is no higher power, because your own initiative IS the highest power. Remember that, CarpeDiem.

[Geezer]

My 40+ year association with Christianity was exclusively with the oppressive extremely legalistic versions. The kind of religion that attempt to control every aspect of your life and use fear and intimidation to achieve their goals.

 

That makes it difficult for me to relate to your experience with Christianity CarpeDiem. I relate more to your husband in that leaving Christianity was a liberating experience for me. It was more like having my chains and shackles removed than it was losing something special and endearing.

 

I notice you posted that you feel like you’ve lost something very special and comforting in your life.  I can see that in the words you’ve posted, BUT... that special world you were living in was an illusion. It doesn’t and never has existed.

 

Everybody’s journey is different and some are more difficult than others. Your apparent need for some form of spirituality in your life will likely lead you to investigate other options. That is normal and many people explore that option and it works for some, but not for everybody. You are on a journey that is filled with endless questions. Expect this journey to last for years not months, weeks, or days. The road is often rough, difficult, and filled with potholes but I am certain you will eventually find the answers you are seeking were worth the journey. Some believe the journey itself is where enlightenment is found.  

 

I wish you well in your search for truth.

[Storm]

CD,

Welcome to EX-C. Glad you came to be a part of this fellowship. I am very much like you in that Christianity was pretty good for me too. I never really had anything bad happen to me, it was pretty much all good. But I found out the truth and now I just don't see any way I could ever go back. I completely understand what you feel and where you are coming from. You have even more than I have in that your husband is on the journey with you. My wife is still a Christian and I doubt she would ever turn away from it. I can hope, I guess.

I can tell you it gets better.

I would strongly recommend that you shy away from arguing with Christians at this point of your deconversion. I also would strongly recommend you go talk with a counselor who can help you process your thoughts and feelings. The more you are willing to work with and through things, the better you will feel about your choices and you will find comfort in your life. Like I said before, it gets better with time. Live your life with the same zest and fervor you did when you were a believer. Many of the positive characteristics of christianity don't have to stop simply because you don't believe anymore. Many of those things existed before christianity did, so hold on to them and continue to love your fellow man. Its just now, you don't have to do it under the guise of christianity, you can do it simply because you care.

Best of luck to you. I hope to see you around.

[Ouroboros]

Has anyone struggled through any of this?  How do you deal with the loneliness, hopelessness, the lack of sense of purpose in life that comes with becoming an ex-Christian?  I don't know how to handle this.

Absolutely. Struggled for a while, but I promise you, it gets better, and eventually you will find ways of filling those holes and become whole again. Losing your faith is like losing someone close to you. There is feelings of loss and confusion. You might go through phases of anger and denial, even turning back to religion for a while, but the hope you can have is that many of us have gone through the struggles and (in my opinion) come out better on the other side. Good luck, and believe in yourself.

[Blood]

It has motivated me to sell most things we have in order to serve others, love completely and inclusively, live simply, give generously, make conscientious global and local choices, strive toward sustainability, and fight human pain.  It has motivated me to spend my life stopping many of the great injustices in the world including hunger, poverty, rape, human trafficking, lack of education, etc. And I did all of this joyfully, never compelled by manipulation or guilt.  

 

 

You talk as though the church is the only conduit that allows these activities. It isn't. If giving of yourself is very important to your sense of purpose, volunteer with the Red Cross, the United Way, or a thousand other secular organizations and charities. 

 

The other thing is that you don't have to give up Christianity if the good so heavily outweighs the bad. Some of Christianity's claims may be "utterly ridiculous," but that really isn't a valid reason to quit if living the Christian life if it has motivated you to be the generous and caring person you describe yourself as. A lot of people just ignore the ridiculous part and concentrate on the good part. You're allowed to do that. 

[RipVanWinkle]

"I notice you posted that you feel like you’ve lost something very special and comforting in your life.  I can see that in the words you’ve posted, BUT... that special world you were living in was an illusion. It doesn’t and never has existed." Geezer

 

I can only add, that because it was an illusion, you would, if you hadn't already harm someone, very possibly a loved one. One can't play out a belief that is an illusion for long without hurting someone, because an illusion is someone's lie.   bill

[SquareOne]

I empathise with these feelings.  When I lost God, it was very hard for long time.  It was rough to lose that relationship.

 

I think, in time, one thing that helped me was recognising that I had not lost God really.  Because I had been God.  At least, one corner of my brain had been God.  When I was talking to God, I was just talking to a part of my own ego.

 

So, perhaps, you may still find solace within your own meditative thoughts.  I am much more comfortable by myself than I was at first.

 

But, for me, ultimately - it was time.  The longer you go without god, the easier it gets.  So be with friends, enjoy simple comforts, engage a new hobby, let god drift away.

 

It will get better.

[Llwellyn]

Thanks for the post.  You have a unique perspective.  I've heard about people like you, ("Christianity has only ever been good to me"), but I have never actually interacted with one.

 

You seem to have reasons not to be a Christian anymore ("utter ridiculousness of some of Christianity's claims").  I would be very interested to find out what are the claims that turn you off of Christianity.  Perhaps these claims are so benign that their ridiculousness is not a good enough reason to deconvert?  If Christianity has made you a happier person and made those around you happy, then why not stay a Christian?  Perhaps you are so committed to truth that, if the religious involves false claims, you simply cannot abide the religion anymore.  There are some people who are scrupulous like that out there -- maybe you are one of them.

 

Christianity is not the only sytem of thought that offers meaning, hope, and direction.  You mention Plato...  ...I would encourage you to consider Platonism/NeoPlatonism, which can be the philosophical "spine" of any kind of paganism that you might wish to dress it up with.  Plato said that there is an eternal world of goodness that asserts itself into this world.  Perhaps this Paganism can be your next religion?  Platonic "Goodness" and "Justice" are equally lacking in any kind of evidence.  And arguably they are irrelevant to humans.  But perhaps they can substitute if you still wish to believe in heaven and an afterlife?  Take a look at the Gorgias Dialogue.  There, Plato says that Pagan myth (even though they are fictions) can help us to come to know eternal truths.  Granted, the pagan community is probably non-existent in your neck of the woods.

 

The thing about Christianity that repulsed me was the vicious personality of its God ("the wages of sin is death").  That does not exist in Platonism.

[par4dcourse]

Welcome Carp!

 

Nugget I read today: the bad news is that there is no key to happiness. The good news is that it isn't locked.

 

Keep in mind that the "relationship" you lost was like an internet girlfriend; it never really existed. It was you making yourself happy.

[MetalFace]

Try reading Nietzsche. Even when I was a christian, it helped me to start thinking in more beneficial ways. 

 

Why do you need a religion to tell you what to think? An eternal hope based on lies is not something worth believing in. I'd rather have reality, not delusions. 

 

Remember, a comforting lie is just that... a lie. 

[RipVanWinkle]

As for heaven, can you imagine having to live in heaven with all of those pain in the ass Xtians you have to live with in this life? Talk about torture!   bill

[TheRedneckProfessor]

As for heaven, can you imagine having to live in heaven with all of those pain in the ass Xtians you have to live with in this life? Talk about torture!   bill

Spending eternity with most of the christians I know would indeed be hell.

[CarpeDiem]

A big thank you to each and every one of you for all of your good advice, support, and encouragement.  It has really helped me so much already.

 

 

I'd like to respond to a few things some of you have said:

 

 

what I missed the most was the Certainty.

...

I still want to believe there is something good in the universe, that maybe cares about humankind, then when i look at the suffering in the world, that many xians ignore, I wonder, why are things the way they are in this world? So much heartache and tragedy everywhere you look. Though a very good amount of it I think is caused by religion, the way humans treat other humans in the name of their god or religion has caused much heartache and suffering.

 

Yes.. the certainty is something I definitely miss.  Although I now (almost) feel as certain in the non-existence of God/gods/the supernatural as I did previously about the literal power of Jesus.  It's strange really, because I had SO MUCH experiential evidence to prove what I believed.  But it was just that-- experiential.  

 

I went through a period a few years ago where I was angry with God and started to lose faith as well as I began to question those hard life questions of suffering and pain in the world, etc. during my sophomore year of college.  But I eventually got through it as I recognized OUR role as the body of Christ (all of the "true" Christians in the world) to be his hands and feet to relieve that suffering -- thus my dedication now to those things.

 

I understand that religion/s has been a great source of pain and violence in our world's history. But in my mind, I never saw Christianity, REAL Christianity, as doing so.  The Christian history that did use violence and pain (and oh there are so many examples, even within Christian denominations themselves), I saw as bad representations of Christianity and not true Christianity itself.  So that was never a cause for me to leave it just motivated me to be even more kind.

 

 

I had trouble sorting out what values I got as a Christian, and what I would value and care about anyway. (Feeding the hungry, standing up for the oppressed, speaking out against injustice.) You are a kind person regardless of your religious or spiritual beliefs. Personality is determined by your nature and nurture. You are who you are regardless of your spiritual beliefs. 

...

It's like losing a friend or a parent. It's very hard. No one is saying it isn't. But once your brain realizes it was never there all along... you can't go back to delusion, no matter how lovely the delusion was. It is like realizing Santa Claus isn't real. It's sad. It's a wake-up you never expected or wanted. 

...

No vicious God that condemns people to an eternity of suffering. Giving up the concept of heaven is easier because it doesn't come at the expense of the majority who supposedly go to hell. 

 

Thank you so much for all of your encouragement here.

 

The first quote -- I've never considered it like that before -- nature/nurture.  I mean, I knew that I would probably continue to do the things I did before, at least for awhile, but it's like they lost their meaning to me.  Since I no longer have the example of Christ or the motivation of showing people the hope that he offers, I was asking myself, what's the point?  Wouldn't it be an easier, more fun 70+ years (if that's really all we have) if I just spend it being totally selfish and doing things that make ME happy?  This is where my husband says, "yes, but helping people is what makes you happy."  This may be true, but I think it may still take me some time to fully grasp this.  Embracing selflessness only for the sake of the other is surprisingly difficult for me, when I no longer have Jesus on my side to tip the scales that way.  I believe will still come around to doing these things, but it may take time for me to be fully into it again.  (In fact, I may start a whole new post about this topic).

 

The second quote: yes, that's exactly how I feel.  I can't go back to delusion, no matter how much I want to.  Santa Clause doesn't exist.  And neither does God (ouch), at least not in the way I defined it before.  (My husband says "God" still exists, just in a different way, a bigger way.  We are all god now, the universe is god, everything is god.  Math, science, logic, time.  The same power that I used to experience still exists, its just within each of us as individuals).

 

The third quote:  More and more within the past couple years I've had a harder and harder time with hell.  I think I unknowingly came to the conclusion that either hell does not exist, or that each and every person will somehow have a fully equal chance to want to and choose to be in heaven.  The God I believed in was no longer the God that "sent people to hell."  If hell existed and there were people in it, it was only fully because of their own choice to do so.  A great example of this is what C. S. Lewis writes in The Great Divorce, an idea also used by Tim Keller (presbyterian preacher in NYC) in his various sermons on hell.  Talk about great intellectuals that make it hard to leave Xtianty.

 

I had to prioritize what is really important for me and that became my purpose. It's not as elegant as being destined to be gods disciple and free souls on god's behalf, but it's something and it's still important, to me.

...

I have a two year old and I realized that I don't need people. I make my own people.

...

I'm interested in why you would say you feel hopeless. I didn't really experience that as a non-believer, rather I experienced that as a Christian when attending church and hearing how lost the world was.

 

 

Again, thank you for the encouragement in the rest of your reply.

 

First quote:  I like that.  Choosing what is important to you and acting on that -- that is your purpose.  What would you say is most important to you?

 

Second quote: That made my husband and me laugh  We just had a baby as well; she is everything to us and I think it is quite the miracle (in a natural, not supernatural sense) that we, I, MADE that.  Haha.

 

Third quote:  Yes, there were times that I was totally overwhelmed with the lostness of the world.  If you read my response just above this one, I had too much cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile the loving God I served and the eternal state of the world, so my views on hell changed.  The hopelessness that I DID feel as a Christian were due to the lostness of the world presently, not eternally.  Learning of the stories of trafficked girls and the numbers of these little ones that still experience this, the numbers of people suffering from preventable sickness and disease, etc. -- those were the things that made me feel hopeless because the problems seemed so insurmountable compared to the help that would be given.  In Xtian terms, the harvest was plentiful but the workers are few, though I applied this to mean in an earthly sense, not a heavenly one.  And I believe this is still the case.  This hopelessness in the state of the world still exists whether or not I believe in Xtianity.

 

As for what I meant in the original post, my present hopelessness exists mostly because of two reasons: (1) The lack of a sense of purpose and (2) The lack of eternal life.  Both those things gave me great hope as a Xtian.  Everything I did felt very intentional, and I knew the best was always yet to come.  Now, the best is no longer yet to come, and it certainly won't be at death.  It's sad to lose infinite life and only have 70+ years.  It changes everything -- if not my actions, certainly my psychological and emotional understanding.  Xtians call this eternal security -- and that is gone now.

 

 

Hi CD, welcome to the forum. We find meaning and purpose in life in real things rather than imaginary things. A belief in an afterlife and in God or gods is a false answer, as these things do not exist except in the mind.

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I am a little suprised Christianity has just been good to you. If you think back to when you were a Christan, I would guess there would be times where you struggled with uncertainty, had doubts over the violence and insane laws in the old testament, fears of hell and confusion over the absudity of it all.

 

I agree that meaning and purpose now need to be found in real things.   But for all of my life up until now, Xtianity wasn't imaginary, and I found great meaning and purpose there.  Now that that's gone, it's disorienting trying to find where to place that meaning and purpose now.

 

And yes, there were times of doubt and uncertainty, as I talk about earlier in this post.  But I always found ways to justify it, so those uncertainties were easy to take care of -- or just ignore for the sake of "the real Jesus" who loves everyone unconditionally all the time.  Anything that didn't agree with that, I didn't believe.

 

 

The hardest part for me was to give up the magical thinking. I held on to that even after I gave up the Christian god of the shys. I went looking for the 'real' creator. I'm left being an atheist because nothing...absolutely nothing can explain away the suffering that humans must go through except evolution. I didn't want it to be that way. I like magic.

...

I think this is the first time in my life that I actually do take time to look at the roses now. I don't think I'll ever see them again after I die...so I better enjoy the rest of this trip on earth because it  doesn't look good to me as far as an afterlife goes. And yes, I'm still very sad about this except that each day, I seem to be accepting it a little more and I try to make the best day I can for me and my community. I still love to help. I still hate...no...despise, human suffering, so I'm trying to contribute as much today as I did back in the days of going to church.

 

First quote:  Totally agree -- it's so hard to give up the "magic."  I've found myself trying to find other sources of "magic" in this process of leaving Xianity.  It's like an addict who stops using one drug only to find themselves addicted to another substance or activity.  Coming to terms with the nonexistence of that magic is quite difficult.  Losing my relationship with Christ was/is incredibly hard, and in my grief process it's like I don't want to completely let go so I find myself wanting to believe in anything supernatural, like an unhealthy coping mechanism.

 

Second quote: Completely agree.  This is where I am at now.  I'm trying to soak every drop out of each day that I can.  Because life really is so short now.

 

 

Hello and welcome!

 

I think your profile name really has words to live by: carpe diem - seize the day. You feel helpless and lost, but, in losing faith, you've gained a very quiet, but immense power. Discover it. Faith requires you to give up this strength to something else, to trust on something that isn't there to change the world for you, to give purpose to you, to determine for you what your values and aims should be. Without faith, you gain back the power to do all of these things for yourself. You decide what ethics you hold. You determine what the purpose of it all is.

 

There is no higher power - you can see this as a lack of something, as something missing that gives purpose. Or - there is no higher power, because your own initiative IS the highest power. Remember that, CarpeDiem.

 

Very good insight.  I've considered recently the idea of releasing control to "God" was actually losing control of myself -- almost like a victim to his/her abuser.  Luckily, the God I believed in was all good and all-loving, so I never felt "abused."  But it certainly was that such decisions and choices I made about life were not entirely my own-- they were made for me -- and that is something that is entirely new for me to have now.  It is definitely a silver lining in this cloud and will take some adjusting to.

 

 

 

You have even more than I have in that your husband is on the journey with you. My wife is still a Christian and I doubt she would ever turn away from it. I can hope, I guess.

 

Thank you for your advice and insight.  As for your wife and you, that must be SO incredibly difficult.  I cannot imagine going through this without my husband.  Even worse -- I can't imagine would I would feel like if he were where he is and I was still Christian (sooo painful thinking of my own husband being "damned" or at least without God!!), or vice versa, knowing her felt that way about me!  How do you deal with that?? She must cry about you all the time -- so sad!  I'm sorry

[CarpeDiem]

That last reply was getting a bit long, so here are a few more responses:

 

As someone who sounds like your husband, with a wife who sounds more like you I can relate to your situation. I am (mostly) happy about losing our faith while my wife is feeling very lonely and often depressed over it. Like others have pointed out - once you've seen the light there is no going back, no matter how much you may want to. My wife laments more often that she wishes she never opened Pandora's box. It's like the guy in the Matrix who knows the steak isn't real but he doesn't care. It still tastes good! Except religion tastes so empty when you know it isn't real...

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Everyone thinks we made a conscious choice to fuck up our lives but what they refuse to acknowledge is that for us (and most ex-c), Atheism wasn't a choice at all! It was a realization! Once you realize that 2+2=4 and not 5, how do you unrealize that obvious fact?!

 

I feel like your wife and I are on the same page.  Is she a part of this online community?  I would love to email her for mutual support, would you be willing to give me her email address?  Or is there a personal message option for members of ex-christian.com?  Not sure of all the facets of this site yet.  I feel like I could use a friend who feels what I feel and is going through something similar.

 

And you're right -- religion DOES taste so empty knowing it's no longer real.

 

Second quote: I love that you said atheism isn't a choice, it's a realization.  Like I said before, sometimes I wish I COULD choose, because it would make life much more simple again.  But I can't deny a truth once I know it, just like the simple math equation you brought up.

 

The other thing is that you don't have to give up Christianity if the good so heavily outweighs the bad. Some of Christianity's claims may be "utterly ridiculous," but that really isn't a valid reason to quit if living the Christian life if it has motivated you to be the generous and caring person you describe yourself as. A lot of people just ignore the ridiculous part and concentrate on the good part. You're allowed to do that. 

 

Thank you for saying this, it definitely eases our transition right now.  We very well may publicly identify ourselves as being Christians for the rest of our lives, or at least for a god long while.  Privately, to ourselves and perhaps a couple very close friends (and on here), we can be real.  But right now, our livelihood and every single relationship we have is dependent upon our still being a Christian.  It would jeopardize so much to "come out of the closet," so we would have a lot to lose if we decided to finally be honest with everyone.  I know many, many of you have felt this way as well.

 

I can only add, that because it was an illusion, you would, if you hadn't already harm someone, very possibly a loved one. One can't play out a belief that is an illusion for long without hurting someone, because an illusion is someone's lie.   bill

 

I'm curious -- how do you think I would be harming someone?  I believe you that truth is always best, but I don't know that a lie necessarily means pain..

 

I think, in time, one thing that helped me was recognising that I had not lost God really.  Because I had been God.  At least, one corner of my brain had been God.  When I was talking to God, I was just talking to a part of my own ego.

 

Yes.  I am beginning to ponder this more and more.  We are God... what an idea!  Everything I had experienced I can still experience, because it was all within me the whole time..

 

 

You seem to have reasons not to be a Christian anymore ("utter ridiculousness of some of Christianity's claims").  I would be very interested to find out what are the claims that turn you off of Christianity.  Perhaps these claims are so benign that their ridiculousness is not a good enough reason to deconvert?  If Christianity has made you a happier person and made those around you happy, then why not stay a Christian?  Perhaps you are so committed to truth that, if the religious involves false claims, you simply cannot abide the religion anymore.  There are some people who are scrupulous like that out there -- maybe you are one of them.

 

In a nutshell, what turned me off to Christianity is it's claim of being the only way.  This happened because (1) I looked at the people and the history of the world and realized how ridiculous it is to say that such a small percentage of those who are exposed to Xianity are "saved."  (2) I began to reconsider the experiences people have in other religions that are just as miraculous as those within Xiantiy.  If experiential evidence is used to prove Xianity, than it can't be ruled out to prove other religions as well.  Either all are true or none are true. (3) We spent time among some very poor and suffering people in a developing country.  I knew the stats and book knowledge of world suffering, but being physical within it did something completely different to me.  Where was God in this?  I couldn't shake the feeling that either God loved rich white people in America most, or that He didn't exist at all.

 

As for not deconverting, I need some clarification from you.  If you are referring to a public deconversion, then I totally understand and even agree with you -- it may not be worth the sacrifice to "come out of the closet" to our Christian communities because Christianity has been so good to us.  And like I said earlier in this post, it may be that we may never "come out."  Who knows.

But if you are referring to an inner deconversion, I'm confused.  I am unable to choose what I believe -- only what I claim to believe.  I am compelled based on realization that Christianity isn't true.  Therefore, I am not a Christian -- at least not to myself, my husband, my best friend, and you guys.

 

Nugget I read today: the bad news is that there is no key to happiness. The good news is that it isn't locked.
 

 

That's awesome.  I'll keep that nugget close, not unlike my favorite Bible verses I used to have near to me

[mydisplayname]

Wow, I haven't counted, but it looks like you responded to pretty much everyone. That's awesome.

 

First quote:  I like that.  Choosing what is important to you and acting on that -- that is your purpose.  What would you say is most important to you?

 

My offspring first and foremost. I want him to be a happy person within himself capable of dealing with whatever this world throws at him. I want him to understand love, appreciate beauty, understand what we are and why we're here. I want him to understand right from wrong. By that I mean I want him to be able to come to the conclusion that something is wrong based on evidence and fact and not because someone said it's wrong. Anyway. That's my purpose. Like I said, there's nothing grand or elegant about it. It's probably instinct mostly, but it's important, to me.

 

 

 This hopelessness in the state of the world still exists whether or not I believe in Xtianity.

 

Good point. There's always hopelessness. For me it's once you actually open your eyes and see the world you live in. I drive past Khayelitsha every day in my air conditioned vehicle. These people build "houses" out of scrap metal and they actually live there. 300 000+ people. That for me is hopelessness. I do the same thing we all do. I don't see it. You know what? There's nothing I can do to change it. People much smarter than me are trying and failing. It's hopeless. 

 

All of the worlds hopelessness shouldn't be my responsibility and I'm not putting that weight on my shoulders.

 

At the end of the day this world needs to be a slightly better place when I leave it because of me. I can't help all the people all the time, but I can help some of the people some of the time, provided it doesn't screw up my first priority, my offspring. 

 

(2) The lack of eternal life.  Both those things gave me great hope as a Xtian.  Everything I did felt very intentional, and I knew the best was always yet to come.  Now, the best is no longer yet to come, and it certainly won't be at death.  It's sad to lose infinite life and only have 70+ years.  It changes everything -- if not my actions, certainly my psychological and emotional understanding.  Xtians call this eternal security -- and that is gone now.

 

I'm actually ok with not having an afterlife. Any kind of eternity, whether it's bliss or eternal damnation will get boring after a while. Plus I'm scared I might develop a taste for being tortured after my first 500 years of that. Humans are adaptable after all.

 

edit - made many changes. Original structure was horrible.

[ApostateAwoken]

I haven't sorted through enough of my thoughts to be able to write a full testimonial yet, but in short, I feel like the prisoner coming out of the cave looking toward the light in Plato's allegory.  I'm starting to open my mind up to more rational and scientific thinking that has shed light on the utter ridiculousness of some of Christianity's claims.  I'm moving closer and closer (if not already, though hard to admit to myself) to becoming an atheist.  But it is extremely painful for me, not unlike darkened eyes being blinded by the sun.

 

This is quite scary for me (understatement).  Many people post here about their problems with Christianity and how much it ruined their lives.  For me, it was very much the opposite.  Christianity has only ever been good to me.  I've spent my whole life being "sold out for Jesus" trying to follow his example and that has only produced in my life a meaningful and worthwhile purpose that almost everyone (including nonChristians) would support.  It has motivated me to sell most things we have in order to serve others, love completely and inclusively, live simply, give generously, make conscientious global and local choices, strive toward sustainability, and fight human pain.  It has motivated me to spend my life stopping many of the great injustices in the world including hunger, poverty, rape, human trafficking, lack of education, etc. And I did all of this joyfully, never compelled by manipulation or guilt.  

 

In addition, Christianity gave me great hope in eternity.  I believe that the injustice in the world that we couldn't stop now would be met with justice in heaven.  I believed those who died in pain, suffering, and utter hopelessness would be brought into the everlasting arms of the Savior in paradise.  I believed I would be with all my loved ones forever, and most of all, with Jesus -- the one that I loved more than anything.

 

And now... I feel like all of that is gone.

 

Many times I wish I could just believe again because it would restore the joy and hope in my life that I once had.  But belief is not a choice, it is something I am compelled toward based on evidence.  I can't just "unknow" something.  I can't pretend like I'm looking at reality instead of shadows once I have seen glimpses of the light outside of the cave.

 

My husband (who was also a radical Christian) and I have been on this journey toward enlightenment for awhile now.  He feels the effects of losing faith as gaining so much more.  He feels free, excited, happy to be in the light of truth of atheism.  I, on the other hand, struggle daily.  I search to find meaning but everything feels so empty.  It's about as dark of a place as I have ever been before.  In the past when I would feel low, I would turn toward God.  He and I would talk for hours, I would be comforted and feel totally loved.  Now, there is no one there for me to talk to.  He is gone.  

 

And I feel so alone.

 

This loneliness is compounded by our community.  Almost everyone in our life, our friends, family, church, community...everyone.. is Christian.  I used to be totally open about my life and thoughts, working through theological issues or just daily life problems with these people.  I was free to be me. I had amazing relationships everywhere I turned; life was perfect.  Now, I feel completely isolated and unable to talk to anyone about any of this-- except for my husband, but again, we are on such completely different pages in our recovery from faith that it is difficult to find relief there either.

 

Has anyone struggled through any of this?  How do you deal with the loneliness, hopelessness, the lack of sense of purpose in life that comes with becoming an ex-Christian?  I don't know how to handle this.

 

Hey there, and I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling this way.

 

I'd agree that deconversion is different for everyone but there's no doubt in my mind that many ex-Christians (even on this forum) had nothing but joy from Christianity and went through a similar process for you. It was not the case for me (though I did have very good times with it), but that doesn't make you a hopeless freak.

 

I completely understand the fear aspect though. I have been heavily indoctrinated since I was born and am still being indoctrinated. The fear of it all - what is this life about, I will never be able to get over Christianity, I'm going to Hell, what if I'm being tricked, etc. - are very familiar to me. I think this is extremely common, and probably most all ex-Christians have gone through this. It's a process. 

 

There is nothing wrong with following Jesus even if you don't believe that he was God Incarnate. I don't really fit classification but I'm somewhat of a Christian deist - a deist who admires some Christian teaching (that is, the teaching of Jesus), and I still largely admire many of Jesus' ideas. You don't need to give that up. 

 

Nor do you need to stop benefiting the world. Maybe we'll all die sometime in the future but you can still derive satisfaction from helping others while they're here. You sound like a very kind, gracious person, and there's no need for changing beliefs to stop you in any way. 

 

I'm so sorry to hear about the difficulty, but understand that I've felt the same. I've been near-suicidal from the craziness of it all. All I can say is that it certainly gets better, you will get adjusted to what you have found to be the truth, etc. To me, even when I was a Christian the "meaning of life" always seemed absurd. So there's this omnipotent God that made a whole bunch of creatures He loves called humans but the humans have managed to mess themselves up to the point of Hell, and God loves us so that He died for us and now it's our mission on this planet to acquaint as many people as we can with His love. But what after that? Living in Heaven for eternity? People suffering below? God is finally happy with the children He's reconciled? Maybe it's just me, but even under Christianity life seemed meaningless. Just because something is inherently meaningless doesn't mean it can't have meaning. If I created a robot but for no reason, it could still find purpose in cleaning my house or something. 

 

For your loneliness - stay on this forum. Reach out to secular people, and heck, if the people are nice enough, talk to your Christian friends too. You can specify that you don't want to discuss religion and stuff, but you'd be surprised about how the true ones will still care for you and love you even if you don't think the same way. It's my experience that you don't need to abandon them all, so long as they don't bother you incessantly. 

 

All I can say is this: It gets better. Believe me, it was complete desperation that drove me to find this forum, and over the last year I've started to work through it. It's a process, and it gets better day by day (even though there are some bad days). Sorry for the long post, but I feel strongly about this and want to let you know that it definitely will get better and that you are certainly not alone. Hugs!