ApostateAwoken Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 THIS STUPID THOUGHT. Has anyone else obsessively experienced it, and how did you get rid of it/learn to cope with it until it went away? Every day that I'm making some decent progress and actually feel happy and comfortable in my position as an agnostic, I immediately think "This is exactly what the Christians warned you about and what the Devil wants you to think. It's a trap." Frankly, at this point, I think I like the Devil more than God, because really, he's a lot more innocent than God is. Perhaps the next time I think "That's what the Devil wants you to think" I'll mockingly tell myself "Good! I like the way he thinks", despite the fact that he doesn't exist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 As a child I made the mistake of telling my mother I didn't believe in God. She sent me to fundie Bible camp where they put the fear of demons into me. So yes I would often obsess about demons and Satan playing tricks on me. At one point I even convinced myself that every time I got a scratch it was a demon writing one me when I was asleep. I struggled with that crap for decades. For me the cure was atheism. But I like the point you make about the Devil in fiction. Even in the Old Testament the Devil is more of a freedom fighter. The talking snake helped humans to think for themselves and gain knowledge. God, being the evil dictator, couldn't forgive Satan or the humans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 All xians "know" that god is far more powerful than the devil. They are his precious children and he promises to answer their prayers and protect them. Do you really think that this supposedly all-powerful god would really let his precious daughter be tricked by such a puny little punk as the devil? The "what if I'm wrong?" questions can be frightening, but if you are able to look at them from a logical point of view, questions like yours all but prove that xianity is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Replace "the devil" with "gollum" and then answer the question. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 16, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2014 What if it was actually god who was tricking you all along? That is just as possible and plausible as the devil. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluegrassSkeptic Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 THIS STUPID THOUGHT. Has anyone else obsessively experienced it, and how did you get rid of it/learn to cope with it until it went away? Every day that I'm making some decent progress and actually feel happy and comfortable in my position as an agnostic, I immediately think "This is exactly what the Christians warned you about and what the Devil wants you to think. It's a trap." Frankly, at this point, I think I like the Devil more than God, because really, he's a lot more innocent than God is. Perhaps the next time I think "That's what the Devil wants you to think" I'll mockingly tell myself "Good! I like the way he thinks", despite the fact that he doesn't exist. It's hard to trust your decisions when you have had them spelled out for you for so long. I don't believe in the Bible or any myth for that matter, but I do understand that there is more than one way to skin the cat called Life. Religion only let's you follow ONE way to live, claiming that it is the only path to success and happiness. The reality is that lifetimes are vast, and you can have hundreds if not thousands of ways to live it and be successful and happy. You need to change your mind set about how to live life and make choices. Understand that just like opening a pickle jar, there are a ton of different ways to accomplish it without spilling the pickles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Replace "the devil" with "gollum" and then answer the question. my preccccious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Replace "the devil" with "gollum" and then answer the question. That is actually brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingernut Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I know I have wondered this before...at night...laying there wondering how this all happened. How just a three years ago I would have been ending my day with prayer, waking up and having my quiet time; more prayer and bible study. And then I have that thought, that "oh no!" flash that hits and I think "what if I have just been given over to Satan or he is just got me in this deceptive trap and I am believing his lies and giving into doubt?" But then logic says...just like an above poster touched on...if there were a god and we were his child....don't you think he would have rescued his child by this point? Given us a reason to keep on believing? Besides, if you were anything like me, when you began to doubt you asked him to restore your faith...and he didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 First, a brief blurb from the Church of Satan. Now, the last two items from this blurb. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years. Adressing Point #1: What if the Devil is tricking you? Well, the Devil is not tricking you if it is leading you towards physical, mental or emotional gratification. That is the Devil's job, you know, and essentially all that Devil/Satan/Big Bad is...is sin. Now if you've probably heard that "sin separates you from God" and "God cannot be in the presence of sin". So if you are thinking this, then let it be your truth. You are separate from God, whatever that means. Since you are separate from him, you are now able to look at him and see him for what he truly is: a lie. If God had come through for you, if prayer worked, if the church was as good and wonderful as everyone says it ought to be...then you would have no reason to doubt him. You'd have never left him in the first place, am I right? Obviously, God failed to do his job, as he always does. So he tells all of his good sheep that Satan is out to get ya, guard your minds from the roving lion who seeks to devour, et al. When in reality, God is just covering his own ass and always has been. Summary: Satan/Devil/Big Bad symbolizes human nature aka sin. God symbolizes the vain hope of something above or beyond human nature that does not exist. Don't feel bad and don't listen to voices in your head. Addressing Item #2: Satan is the best friend the church has ever had. Sin is the uncurable eternal disease; God and the blood of his son, the supposed cure. Everything else is a racket, a 2,000 year long pyramid scheme wetdream, basically. Every time you feel that guilt, that doubt, rising up within you...rejoice. That's a sign of your humanity, your mind, your being. It's not forbidden any longer. All else: Satan is far more likeable than God as far as fictional characters go. It's not that Satan is more innocent that makes him appealing, imo. It's what he stands for: human nature, the heart, the mind and the physical desires that we all have. So much is forbidden and restricted by God. It's sick the way that God supposedly creates us and then tells us that we can't do this or that because of x,y,z. All we are supposed to do is worship him and love one another until the sky kingdom comes, or some shit. God stands for some future happiness; Satan for the earthly and more tangible rewards. Christianity is built upon the principle of pay now, receive later (maybe! if you abided by the fine print! lol). So yes, Satan is more appealing in that regard as well. In the end, the shebang is a bunch symbolic hoo-hah, imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Every day that I'm making some decent progress and actually feel happy and comfortable in my position as an agnostic, I immediately think "This is exactly what the Christians warned you about and what the Devil wants you to think. It's a trap." What if the devil is actually the creator and the good guy and god is actually the fallen angel and have successfully fooled us all into thinking he's god? The whole thing is make believe and stupid, but we all had these thoughts. In time as I got out of my brainwashed condition I stopped worrying about stuff like this. edit - I see now that the professor actually already basically said this. That will teach me to comment without reading the full thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Questions like this have similar problems as with the "brain in a vat" dilemma. The reality you perceive is the reality you live, and questioning your own existence is self defeating since if indeed you were a brain in a vat the question would also be a part of the simulation you live in. Are your thoughts being controlled by the devil? Is the the very question in your head that your thoughts are being controlled by the devil also from the devil? Are your thoughts being controlled by a magical invisible pink hippo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 When I first deconverted I was awoken from my christian delusion with a simple thought, "God does not exist". Immediately it all made sense, but shortly afterwards I had the thought, "what if I am wrong?". I resolved that by first acknowledging that the fear of being wrong causes irrational thinking, and that believing in God was unreasonable based on the knowledge I had, especially after having watched the why people believe weird things TED talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I know I have wondered this before...at night...laying there wondering how this all happened. How just a three years ago I would have been ending my day with prayer, waking up and having my quiet time; more prayer and bible study. And then I have that thought, that "oh no!" flash that hits and I think "what if I have just been given over to Satan or he is just got me in this deceptive trap and I am believing his lies and giving into doubt?" But then logic says...just like an above poster touched on...if there were a god and we were his child....don't you think he would have rescued his child by this point? Given us a reason to keep on believing? Besides, if you were anything like me, when you began to doubt you asked him to restore your faith...and he didn't. I agree with this post! I have wondered the same things but, thankfully, I'm on my way out of that mess called religion/faith. There will be times that those old thoughts invade our minds. But that's when we need to stand firm and think rationally. Well said, ginger nut!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Seeking the truth is one of the most difficult things a person can do, most especially when the truth one seeks is related to something like religion. While seeking the truth is extremely difficult, there is something even more difficult than that. And that is, once found, accepting the truth. That question of yours, which I also had when I first deconverted, is a trick of your mind. It is a resurfacing of the fear of God (yes, the fear of God, not of the devil) which you were taught as a Christian. Along with a hollow promise of eternal life in heaven if you are a Christian, there is also an unhealthy dose of fear thrown at Christians. That fear is that God (not the devil) will throw you into hell for eternity for daring to think for yourself. Do you recognize the source of your question and understand how it was implanted in your mind by those who taught you about the Christian religion? It was planted in your mind as a control mechanism. It's another way of saying that anything you think which is contrary to what you are taught as a Christian is evil and must be avoided at all costs. Don't let that fear tactic work for you. See through it and defeat it and it will eventually go away. You must recognize this fear and face it squarely. I did this by taking a close look at the Bible and saw that there is no Satan, no demons, no angels and most importantly, no hell!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's kind of a more advanced version of the question, "If you aren't a good little girl, do you think Santa Claus will bring you any presents?" There is no devil. The character is a dumb Christian misinterpretation of "the Satan" figure in the Hebrew Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Have you read Margee's "God, Forgive Me" post? When I finally took the last step and went "There is no God, there is no Jesus, the whole thing was bullshit," there was the automatic (conditioned response) about "But what if I'm wrong and committing the Unforgivable Sin?!" But after decades of Christianity, God knew how hard I struggled and how desperately I wanted to serve, believe, and love. He saw the pain I was in. If he is the loving and forgiving god that his fans claim he is, then how could he not forgive me for using the free will and brain that he gave me to finally make the most emotionally healthy choice I could to live, instead of going completely nuts with fear? After a lifetime of hearing what a "poor, miserable sinner" I am, would God be shocked and punish me for being exactly what his doctrine hammered into me since Day 1? It's the most twisted mindfuck of illogical logic you can imagine, isn't it? So if it makes you feel better to put a little asterisk next to your beliefs that says "And if it turns out I'm wrong here as I explore and learn, I'm sorry/forgive me," then do it, for now or forever how long it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 So God sends me to hell because for whatever reason I was "tricked" by the devil. That's just precious. I guess any time someone is taken advantage of in society by fraud, crime, pranksters etc... It's their fault. God sure is a kind fellow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylight Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Guess god isn't as powerful as the devil (or just lazy), if the devil can trick most of the worlds population so easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Guess god isn't as powerful as the devil (or just lazy), if the devil can trick most of the worlds population so easily. "If God's with us, who can be against us?" Seems like that cliche would destroy the "Satan is deceiving you" concept. But seeing as how I was always hearing about "spiritual warfare" at church, I guess the Christians didn't really believe their God had any power (or like you said, was lazy) since they were always afraid of Satan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What if Jesus was actually the son of Satan and Satan was using him to trick people into following a false God? What if Satan is trying to draw you away from Allah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraBardus Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Replace "the devil" with "gollum" and then answer the question. No! Not us, Precious! Nasty, Trixy Hobbitses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just like everything else that you wonder about, just google it. Search for "the devil is not real" or "Satan is not real". Do not bother with anything written by Christian apologists; look for secular scholars and/or atheists. One or two decent writings should be enough to convince you. If you still have doubts, keep in mind those things the secular/atheists writers said, then go back to some of the Christian writers -- and compare notes in your mind. You will be able to dismiss much of the Christian nonsense once you are armed with another perspective. You now have an open mind, and the internet opens us to all kinds of ideas -- so use them. You'll figure it out. You will be fine! This too shall pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Satan is the force that opposes biblegod/his church. Therefore, since we are against the church's evilness, we are all Satan. Enough rambling....so yeah, I think I've had that thought a few times. But if god wants to keep us locked up (which he does), and the devil opposes him, then I'll join the devil's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Of course I had that thought in the early stages of deconversion. It's completely normal in the aftermath of the brainwashing. One of the tricky things about Christianity is that it predicts that people will turn away, and warns us to wary, lest we be deceived. So even as we leave the faith, it seems as though it all might be true because our leaving was, in a sense, predicted by Christianity. Beware of the dangers of tautology. The fear of hell is an irrational fear by definition. We have no reason at all to think that such a place exists, save that we were told that it does. The same can be said of the devil. One day, our time will be up. We don't know what (if anything) awaits us on the other side. Maybe we'll find out, and maybe we won't. But for now, all we can do is try to live this life as best we can, without wasting time worrying about such an infantile notion as that of the Christian hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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