Almost Deconverted

[Derequa]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm brand new here, and this is my first post. I have been going through a lot of threads here for the past four days, and decided it was about time I joined.

 

 

First off let me say that I'm not an Athiest. I'm in the process of deciding whether I am going to stick to the Christianity I was raised with, or leave it. (I'm leaning towards leaving it, hence I'm posting here)

I'm here to gain wisdom from all of you who have already been through something similar to what I'm struggling with. I'm in the middle of a bout with depression, and I've just been struggling to find out who I really am and where I want to take my life. I've been easing away from a very dedicated christian lifestyle for the past few years, and now I'm trying to decide for myself whether I'm going to leave it or not.

 

 

 

 

I guess I should explain where I come from.

I was born into a very biblical christian family, and was in every church service our church had from a very young age. The church I went to was a non-denominational new testament assembly. I'm not sure if anyone here is familiar with the "Plymouth brethren movement" that is what group of christian ideas we identified with. Essentially it just means our church based it's operation around how the new testament christians operated, and didn't really stick to any "man-made" traditions/practices. 

I became a christian at a very young age but struggled with doubts related to not feeling saved for a few years. I must have prayed a million times to be saved from my sins. I became very involved and dedicated to christianity, and actively participated in leading music, youth group projects, and even spent seven full summers volunteering as a summer missionary with a children's ministry. In short I was a very well bred, dedicated, practicing christian.

 

My whole world was in this christian bubble. I was home-schooled all 12 grades, my dad was self employed (he worked from our house) and preached on occasion, my grandfather had been a full time preacher, most of the resource classes I took were taught by very christian people, and all my friends were christians, most of them went to my church. I pretty much knew no other way to live, and was only taught the weaknesses in other paths of life.

 

 

Weaknesses in my faith formed over my years in high-school. When I was a freshman, my two childhood best friends left me for new people in youth group. They wouldn't invite me to anything or even come and say hi anymore.  It didn't quite happen overnight, but in less than a year they had completely distanced themselves from me. This grew into complete distance from everyone in my youth group. I was doing my best to live the christian life and serve the god that supposedly loved me, only to have christians treat me poorly. I remember pouring my heart and soul into a youth group missions trip. I worked so hard on our projects, I was always up early praying and doing devotions, I was putting as much effort as I could into mastering how to teach the bible lessons we taught, and helping everyone I could. That whole trip no one ever hung out with me or even had a real conversation with me and I was completely alone. I begged god over and over again to let me have friends. Nothing happened. I know I can't judge the whole of christianity based on how people treat me but it's hard to ignore them.

 

 

From that, I grew very bitter over time. By my last semester in senior year, I had nothing to do with youth group. going to church was just me listing to god trying to figure out how I could make things right again. I struggled with "sin" in sexual ways (masturbation and porn) but kept praying for help to get out of it. I wanted to be the best I could but I kept failing harder and harder. I hid most of this in myself, because my christian parents only gave me sermons on meaningless things when I told them.

 

 

 

 

Fast forward almost two years of half-assed christianity and I have a girlfriend who i am deeply in love with, and has shown me more love, kindness, and understanding than my own christian family. I am failing in my college career. my girlfriend's parent's have just finalized a divorce. I have had the biggest culture shock adapting to life outside of my christian bubble. My parents are paranoid and even a little threatening about me stepping away from my faith. I have seen so many more rational view on the world and ways of living than I ever knew were possible. Life is tough for me right now, and I am really trying to figure out who I really am. Seeing how many people here have moved away from very hardcore christianity is a relief to know that I am not alone if I do step out.

 

 

 

My main questions are as follows:

 

1. Where is god when we struggle? The bible says so much about jesus giving us peace in our life. Why is that peace so impossible to find when you desperately need it?

2. Why did god create us? He knew we would mess up. Further, why does he so harshly judge his creation that he knew would mess up?

 

I really want to know if anyone else had similar questions like this, and how it affected them in moving away from christianity.

 

 

 

 

I have ranted enough, and could rant more, but ultimately it comes down to my life being difficult and I have to decide who I am. I have reached out to god a few times this past few days. I'm giving him another chance to show me truth. What wisdom and advice can you give a man on the edge of giving up a lifetime of believing? 

 

 

PS:

Apologies for lack of organization, and no doubt horrible grammar and typos I missed. It's been a while since I've been on forums.

 

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Derequa, welcome to ExC.

 

I want to start by assuring you that you are in a safe place. No one here in the Testimonies forum will judge you. You are now with people who have been where you are.

 

I understand you are undecided about whether to leave Christianity or not. That decision is completely yours and yours alone. Whatever you decide is fine. Just make the right decision for yourself.

 

You are definitely not alone. Most here, including me, have been where you are. It is an extremely difficult crossroads, but you can get through this.

 

I like your questions and will give you my view.

 

1. Where is god when we struggle? The bible says so much about jesus giving us peace in our life. Why is that peace so impossible to find when you desperately need it?

2. Why did god create us? He knew we would mess up. Further, why does he so harshly judge his creation that he knew would mess up?

 

Where is god when we struggle? It is in our struggles that we so hope there really is a loving god who will be there for us. After many years of thinking about this, I have come to the conclusion that either there is no god to care about our struggles, or we so misunderstand god that we do not see his presence. The thing about Christianity is that it has so pigeon holed "god" that we expect some sort of formulaic response. If there is a god, it is definitely not the cruel one that Christians worship.

 

Why did god create us? If there is a creator god, I do not think he created us just so we could worship him. That would be such a self centered being. If there is a creator god, I suspect that he didn't create us. Rather, he set the universe in motion which in turn eventually resulted in us. In other words, god's purpose was not to create humans destined for hell because some supposed man and woman sinned, but it was to set the universe in motion to allow things to happen over billions of years so life would eventually result. Maybe you will disagree with me, but I like such a god far more than the god of the bible who, according to the bible, will condemn most people to an eternity in hell. Such a god, in my opinion, does not merit worship, but disdain and a realization that such a monster does not exist.

 

Again, welcome.

[Nadooshka]

Welcome Derequa!

 

My experience was a lot like yours. I remember the youth group snubbing me because I wanted to get closer to god, while the atheists at uni had greater respect for my sincerity than the people at church. Think about it this way: If the Bible is true, and if Christianity is true, then that means Christians really have different natures than nonchristians. They are born again, right? But no, they don't act any different. In reality they act worse many times! There is the evidence that the holy spirit does not exist. And if they try to say, "well they were not TRUE Christians," that doesn't add up because there is no way they can know anyone's heart in the first place.

 

Where is god when we struggle? Nowhere. It's humans who create god in their imaginations to cope with struggles. Often it's done at a very unconscious level.

 

Why did god create us knowing we'd mess up? Well if that is the case, then we're dealing with a malevolent god. No way around that.

 

I hope this helps.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The important thing is that we have another Tarheel on our website!  I'm from the Charlotte area, originally.  You?

[slave2six]

Hi Derequa,

 

The goal here is not to attain to Atheism. There are lots of folks here who are deists or agnostics as well as atheists. Most of us don't care so much about what someone believes, rather we care how people think and behave. 

 

Whether you leave Christianity and then become buddhist, wiccan, or pastafarian is not really relevant. Whether or not you are a decent person and whether or not you preach at us is.

 

So, that said, the struggle to leave Christianity is rough. You have fear of an exacting god and fear of hell on the one hand and potential loss of friends and family on the other. The first set relates to you being honest with yourself while the second relates to being honest with others.

 

If you can be honest with yourself, then you are on the right path. Question everything. Give yourself permission to be the final authority. You are a rational being. If something makes no sense to you, investigate it further. If it continues to make no sense, that's probably because it's completely irrational. As you peel away those things, you'll find that you are more at peace within yourself and eventually you'll be able to say, "That cannot be right."

 

Take your time with it. So long as you are looking for truth, the journey is worth it.

 

Once you leave Christianity, keep it to yourself until you are strong enough to face the battle with friends and family. There are lots of people here who are still Ex-Christians only in private. That's a hard battle to face.

 

Keep posting here and update us on your progress. You'll experience a wide range of emotions. We're here for ya!

[Cousin Ricky]

First off let me say that I'm not an Athiest. I'm in the process of deciding whether I am going to stick to the Christianity I was raised with, or leave it. (I'm leaning towards leaving it, hence I'm posting here)

 

No problem. This is an ex-Christian forum, not an atheist forum. Christianity may paint the world in either-or black and white, but the real world just isn’t like that.

 

I am an atheist because, having seen the failure of Christian promises, I could not see any evidence that any other religion had “The Truth” either. Nevertheless, while I actively disbelieve the Christian god as self-contradictory, and actively disbelieve all other anthropomorphic gods as out-of-sync with known reality, I only passively disbelieve the first cause (Deist) god. In other words, in case you haven’t seen these terms before, I am a strong atheist with respect to Yahweh, but a weak atheist with respect to the Deist god. Some people in this forum aren’t atheists at all.

 

I'm in the middle of a bout with depression, and I've just been struggling to find out who I really am and where I want to take my life.

 

Should you leave Christianity, be prepared for your family to blame your falling away for the depression. My own mom thinks that my deconversion is responsible for my depression, even though she knows I was depressed for more than a decade before leaving the faith, and even though she is a trained professional in the field, who should know better. That’s what religion does to an otherwise intelligent brain.

 

1. Where is god when we struggle? The bible says so much about jesus giving us peace in our life. Why is that peace so impossible to find when you desperately need it?

2. Why did god create us? He knew we would mess up. Further, why does he so harshly judge his creation that he knew would mess up?

 

I think you already know the answers to those questions; it’s just a matter of your coming to terms with them. The process may or may not be quick, but it won’t be easy.

 

I have ranted enough, and could rant more, but ultimately it comes down to my life being difficult and I have to decide who I am. I have reached out to god a few times this past few days. I'm giving him another chance to show me truth. What wisdom and advice can you give a man on the edge of giving up a lifetime of believing?

 

I figure if there is a god who wants a relationship with me, he knows where to find me. God may have infinite patience, but my lifetime is finite, and I don’t have that luxury. Any god worth my time will know that.

[Eugene39]

Hi Derequa, I'm glad that you decided to join us. Here's a couple of dis-jointed responses first before giving you my perspective on your big questions. Not being an atheist is quite fine by me. Am sorry to see you've suffered through depression and guilt over your "sins" - it was the same for me also.

 

You ask where God is when we struggle and why His peace is so impossible to find. This is a difficult question to answer and many books from all kinds of perspectives have been written about it. You will be the only one able to come up an answer that works for you. For me, this was an eventual conclusion that the God of Christianity was non-existent. While it no longer troubles me, the silence was deafening while my belief system fell completely apart. 

 

As for your second question, it's another one that there's no real good answer for it inside the circles of Christianity that you are a part of. Liberal Christianity "white-washes" it enough for some people, I suppose. For me, when the God of Christianity finally evaporated, the answers became self-evident.

 

Maybe a few years from now, you'll be an atheist - who knows and it's completely unimportant. For now, you are discovering that the Bible God is very insufficient in answering the big questions. It's a terribly painful experience to go through, and I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to approach the topic with us. Welcome to Ex-C.

[Margee]

Hi, Derequa, welcome to ExC! Thanks for sharing your story with us. We are very familiar with these sad testimonies. Most of us came here with the exact same questions as you are asking. I hope you will stay with us awhile because that's how I ended up 'healing' from Christianity. Sit here and read the testimonies and you will never feel alone again. As you read, and post your concerns, you will get your own answers in your heart. It takes time. You can be completely yourself on this forum and we will understand all the confusion you may go through. It's not the easiest journey for some. It wasn't for me. I am still healing. So, I hope you stay here with us.... and we'll help you and you can help us because we deep thinkers are all in this together. 

 

Sincerely, Margee

[Blood]

"Essentially it just means our church based it's operation around how the new testament christians operated, and didn't really stick to any "man-made" traditions/practices."

 

Right there is a problem. The New Testament is a "man-made" document. Nothing divine about it at all. Written in average Koine Greek.

 

This is an old, old trick among Christians -- to say "we don't follow any man-made tenets or documents ... we only follow the Bible." And then they go create a bunch of new "man-made" doctrines of their own. 

[rach]

I was unwelcome in the youth group too.  My adoptive parents heavy church involvement did nothing to help the fact that the other kids did not want me there.  I was not cool enough.  I was different...racially, mentally, physically.  And in spite of all the god/love talk, we know the unforgivable sin in youth group and church in general, is to be too different.  So my a-parents would make me go every time, and every time I would cringe wondering if anybody would let me even sit in their "row", and knowing nobody would talk to me.  These are all people who had been "saved" and "transformed" by the way. 

 

So onto your questions- yes, those are some of the many big questions I've asked myself countless times. 

1. Where is god when we struggle and where is all this promised peace and still waters?  And 2) why did god create us? 

 

I ended up coming to different conclusions than most here did.  I guess most people on here end up turning atheist after grappling with those kind of questions.  Being a spiritual person by nature and having had "supernatural" experiences I was unable to drop the belief in a diety.  So my conclusion was that there are multiple dieties, some good some evil, and that the one who created the earth is evil.  I concluded that Yahweh and his son Jesus might exist and the bible might be their "word" but that doesn't mean they are good since the bible is full of violence, immorality and injustice.  Since they have proven themselves not to be good, I have no obligation to follow them as a disciple. 

 

I gave up a lifetime of imposed hardcore Christian believing.  I realized that all the time, I had wanted to leave, because the belief system was imposed on me, but I was always too scared by fears of hellfire to go through with it.  But eventually enough is enough.  I left religion and I started to read other books, novels and poetry, and feel this connection in my spirit that never did occur with bible reading.  I started to learn about my cultural heritage.  Basically the bible went out, and in came a flood of other things, books and movies and history and culture and dreams and music and ideas and goals.  Things Christianity never let me have.  Thoughts Christianity never let me think.  I became a person.  Leaving was the best decision I could have made. 

[Derequa]

Thanks for the very warm welcome everyone!

It really is great to have so many welcoming responses and encouragements!

 

 

The important thing is that we have another Tarheel on our website!  I'm from the Charlotte area, originally.  You?

It's awesome to know there are fellow Tarheels here! I'm from Greensboro but am currently living in Raleigh for school.

 

Hi Derequa,

 

The goal here is not to attain to Atheism. There are lots of folks here who are deists or agnostics as well as atheists. Most of us don't care so much about what someone believes, rather we care how people think and behave. 

I have realized this, and I'm really glad this forum encourages all kids of people in their process of leaving christianity.

 

 

I think you already know the answers to those questions; it’s just a matter of your coming to terms with them. The process may or may not be quick, but it won’t be easy.

 

Yeah I have really been wrestling with the answers internally. I am really glad to see everyone's responses though. Seeing how other dealt with these things is really helpful.

 

...every time I would cringe wondering if anybody would let me even sit in their "row", and knowing nobody would talk to me.  These are all people who had been "saved" and "transformed" by the way

I know this feeling far too well. I had the same thought process again and again when I was in youth group. I must say, I wouldn't wish that kind of rejection on anyone.

 

 

Again I'm so happy for such a warm welcome to these forums! It's so nice to know that there are people who know and understand what I'm going through. I will certainly post as I continue with my journey and facing christianity. This community is wonderful, and I'm glad to be a part of it!

[milesaway]

^A lot of us have been there. Even though I was never technically religious to begin with, the loss of my faith a little over a year ago devastated me at first, then there was a sense of peace after I walked out of that church for good. I never once felt at peace in church, no matter how hard I tried. Instead I got nothing but chaos and turmoil. If you come to atheism as the conclusion, then that's fine. If you come to agnosticism, then that's equally valid. Some people here who came to christendom from other religions went back to the ones they grew up with. Some tried other religions for awhile and eventually gave up on them as well. Others have switched to different religions or decided to go with spirituality. We run the gamut here.

 

Keep asking those questions, and keep searching for the answers on your own. Don't accept the canned responses from your church leaders just because they said so. You owe yourself intellectual honesty, and if your church leaders get pissed off about it, then think long and hard before taking any of what they say seriously, and ask yourself why they're acting that way. If you're getting nothing out of the services, and you're getting no real answers, then you know what to do.

 

Be prepared to go through something similar to the stages of grief. This is a loss whether you realize it or not, and it should be treated as such. Don't be surprised if the ones you thought you could turn to from your church decide to up and leave you. This has nothing to do with you, it's a reflection of how they are. Same for those people in the youth group you talked about. They ostracized you because they're cowards, plain and simple. They alienated you because of who and what they are. Let them have their stupid social club. Their groupthink will cheat them out of what would have been some otherwise damn good relationships, and they'll wonder why.

[gingernut]

Derequa, one question I wanted to ask....you said your girlfriend treats you better than any person you have met....is your girlfriend a Christian?  The reason I ask is because I was taught that only Christians can be kind and good people, and time and time again when my back was up against the wall and life was falling apart, it wasn't Christians who had my back, it was the heathen, godless people.  I have especially gotten a considerable amount of help and support from a friend who is an atheist.  She was there helping me when my Christian friends had forsaken me.  That did not cause my deconversion, but it was sitting there in the shadows...bothering me.  Like you, I have had nothing but rejection from the church.  I know that not everyone does but I did and although that did not cause my deconversion, it certainly didn't help.

 

As to your two questions...you actually already have the answers to those in your reasoning, you may just not be ready to actually accept them.  For example, use your reasoning for the first question...where is God when we struggle.  You obviously, like me, had literally begged god for help when in the struggle.  There was no answer.  If we were in the middle of a lake in a boat and it tipped over and we were calling and calling for help and nobody came or answered we would assume that nobody heard us and it was up to us to get to shore on our own.  We wouldn't say "Well, maybe they heard us and their answer was wait, I am teaching him patience and then eventually when hypothermia sets in I'll rescue him to show him how much I care."...or any of the various and sundry ways people try to excuse god for unanswered prayer.  In the area of unanswered prayer, something my daughter says always sticks in my mind, "If God is so great and loving, why do Christians have to make so many excuses for him?" 

 

As to the question of why did he create us if he knew we would fail, that he would have to send his son to die for us, that vast numbers of us would fail the ultimate test and end up burning in hell, which he created for us (?) but he made us anyway, well?  Reason again, what kind of sick bastard would he be?  That was why I deconverted....I could not serve a god who was, by the bible's teaching, the ultimate sadist.  So...does that mean that you have to jump to being an atheist?  No.  I am not an atheist, but I am sure as hell not a Christian.  This process is not about becoming an atheist, or a deist, or anything.  This is not a contest to see how many of a certain type we can "create".  This is about you and where you end up is what works for you.

 

I extend the utmost of compassion to you while you are in this process.  It is hard, it is a struggle, and it causes a lot of mental strain.  For some of us, anxiety disorders, OCD, and other problems came as a result.  The world is not a bad place full of evil people like we have been taught.  There is so much goodness out there and so much love.  Enjoy exploring it, enjoy using your mind and reasoning to answer your own questions.  Trust yourself...that is another thing.  I was taught I couldn't.  But you actually do have a mind of your own and you can look for the answers to these questions and trust your reasoning.  Best to you and it is great to have you on the forums.

[BendyLine]

I'm on my phone so this will be short. I can very much relate to your experience. I went through a lonely period around the end of high school myself. All I ever asked for from God was a friend or two. That was a major reason why I started to doubt. And like you, I was pretty bitter for a while.

 

You're not alone, brother. When your bitterness starts to subside, you'll probably find that your issues with Christianity remain (assuming you're still bitter). And no pressure about atheism either. I've only been one for a little over a year, and I left Christianity about seven or eight years ago. This is an ex-Christian site, not an atheist site. So good luck wherever your journey takes you.

[Derequa]

Today, after praying for the last time, and going to church waiting to hear god say something that might convince me he is there and this religion has some truth in it. I was met with nothing. I have decided to consciously take the step out of christianity. Right now I would consider myself deist, I still believe some being or force started this universe, but it doesn't interact with us at all. I'm open to what my path in life will bring, and I'm glad to have my fate in my own hands.

I've also decided to take care of my depression myself, and plan on going to the counseling center at school for some help, instead of waving a bible at myself and hoping everything will magically get better.

 

 

Derequa, one question I wanted to ask....you said your girlfriend treats you better than any person you have met....is your girlfriend a Christian?  The reason I ask is because I was taught that only Christians can be kind and good people, and time and time again when my back was up against the wall and life was falling apart, it wasn't Christians who had my back, it was the heathen, godless people.  

My girlfriend is a "christian" in the sense that she believes in salvation and such. However, she would be the first on to tell you that she does not live the lifestyle, and is disgusted by the fake love many christians have. She is with me on this journey, and may one day even leave christianity herself. She has told me the main thing that keeps her believing is the fear of hell. 

I know what you mean about "heathens" being there for you. I have always found it so much easier to become friends with people outside of the christian group. Most of the time they seem more accepting, which is ironic.

 

 

...I went through a lonely period around the end of high school myself. All I ever asked for from God was a friend or two. That was a major reason why I started to doubt. And like you, I was pretty bitter for a while.

You're not alone, brother. When your bitterness starts to subside, you'll probably find that your issues with Christianity remain (assuming you're still bitter).

It really amazes me how many people here have had similar experiences. I thought I was alone in this for so long.

I am really not hat bitter anymore. I have the occasional discomforting memory come back for a bit, nut that is all. You are so right though. Once the feeling faded away the hard questions were still there for me.

 

 

Thanks again for the warm welcome and encouragement everyone!! I would have never had the courage to leave christianity if I hadn't found this place. I already feel some small relief in taking this step.

[ExCBooster]

Welcome, Derequa!

 

You're not obligated to become an atheist, you know, if you leave Christianity behind. You're not obligated to do anything, really. It's your path, and yours alone. Don't let anyone tell you what to do or become.

[Voice]

It's amazing and encouraging to me to see how far and how fast new de-converts can come with this ex-c community.  When I de-converted I was totally alone, the ex-c community didn't exist.  I see people advancing in just weeks to places that took me 10 years to achieve.

 

Welcome, Derequa.  You will do well to endure the culture-shock, build new relationships with new people, and not go back to christianity.

[shadesofgray]

Welcome, Derequa!

 

You're not obligated to become an atheist, you know, if you leave Christianity behind. You're not obligated to do anything, really. It's your path, and yours alone. Don't let anyone tell you what to do or become.

This exactly. One thing Christianity is so good at is keeping people from thinking for themselves. Instead, pastors, teachers, apologists, parents, and others all set up certain boundaries of what is okay to think and what is not okay. The best thing you can do for yourself is break out of those boundaries. Investigate the whole world, not just the Jesus-approved version. Maybe, after investigating, you'll end up back in some form of Christianity, or maybe in another religion, or maybe in no religion. The important part is, YOU get to decide. It is just not worth it to be forced to live someone else's faith - life is far too short and far too precious to waste on that crap.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Derequa,

 

Welcome, pull up a sit at one of the best places on.line to fill your mind.

Try not to excise the ruins of religion in your head all at once. Quite a few good people tend to blow their mental pressure valves attempting to answer all their deep and sometimes very painful query's at once.  Breathe in, feel the freedom to choose for yourself so many things prior.

 

Webmaster Dave built and maintains Ex-Christian as a place for those of we who need it to take the PRIMAL SCREAM,,,,
Yell until you feel satisfied, bitch, carp, complain, and those things that piled on your mind are fuckin' burned out;

Let the ashes fall. Use condoms lest you two catch a nine month flu.

Drink, cuss, fuck, whatthefuckever. Then man, life goes on with your hands on the wheel or bars in the direction you wanna go.

 

Ain't no second-class ExC, no baby milk, no tough meat to be tenderized.

Bullshit to that man. Being an adult, and I suspect a younger cat, means that simply you take on the responsibility for your life and its happenings. 

 

Hang in, take things easy on the brain a bit.  OR you may end up a grouchy old bastard like me.

 

kevinL