Ellinas Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 No problem. Had I thought about my post a little more carefully I might have realized it was open to misinterpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? It's extremely rare if you happen to live in a first world country full of white people, but when it happens, you defend yourself. If it happens and you live in a third world country, you'll probably be labeled a rebel, insurgent or a terrorist for defending your homeland, but you'll do it anyway because you have little choice. In fact, it won't happen in the modern era for the simple, yet horrific reason referred to as MAD -- mutual assured destruction. Nukes are extreme deterrents against invasion. So, the modern arguments regarding joining the military and defending the homeland are pretty much just propaganda-laden hogwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? It's extremely rare if you happen to live in a first world country full of white people, but when it happens, you defend yourself. If it happens and you live in a third world country, you'll probably be labeled a rebel, insurgent or a terrorist for defending your homeland, but you'll do it anyway because you have little choice. In fact, it won't happen in the modern era for the simple, yet horrific reason referred to as MAD -- mutual assured destruction. Nukes are extreme deterrents against invasion. So, the modern arguments regarding joining the military and defending the homeland are pretty much just propaganda-laden hogwash. I totally agree. The objectors that I have the problem with are WWII objectors. MAD has kept us lucky first worlders relatively safe for a long time. It's a worry when countries like Iran start getting nuclear weapons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? It's extremely rare if you happen to live in a first world country full of white people, but when it happens, you defend yourself. If it happens and you live in a third world country, you'll probably be labeled a rebel, insurgent or a terrorist for defending your homeland, but you'll do it anyway because you have little choice. In fact, it won't happen in the modern era for the simple, yet horrific reason referred to as MAD -- mutual assured destruction. Nukes are extreme deterrents against invasion. So, the modern arguments regarding joining the military and defending the homeland are pretty much just propaganda-laden hogwash. I totally agree. The objectors that I have the problem with are WWII objectors. MAD has kept us lucky first worlders relatively safe for a long time. It's a worry when countries like Iran start getting nuclear weapons though. I don't know. Iran probably wouldn't want them in the first place if the US/Israel hadn't been backing them into a corner for the past 50 odd years. The US supported an overthrow of their democratically elected leadership and installed a brutal dictator. They finally rebelled and the backlash ended up putting an extremist party in control of what was once a nation that was on its way toward secular rule. The secularists in the country are now making a comeback, but the nation is still treated like the world's greatest threat (likely because it has loads of oil and a strategic position in the ME), so of course they want nukes for the same reason our nations want nukes -- to deter invasion. Their leadership (the one's that really count) aren't insane, despite the propaganda to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 If the secularists in the country are making a comeback, that would be the best thing ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Just out of curiosity, would New Zealander's consider an invasion of GB the same as an invasion of their own soil? I've done a little reading up on New Zealand and the World Wars after reading this thread. I was never aware of NZ's involvement in either war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Just out of curiosity, would New Zealander's consider an invasion of GB the same as an invasion of their own soil? I've done a little reading up on New Zealand and the World Wars after reading this thread. I was never aware of NZ's involvement in either war. At the time, NZers certainly did. The same goes for Australia and Canada. All 3 countries (and other Commonwealth countries) made a significant contribution to the war effort. We were dependent on the UK for so many things, and they were our major market for our export products, for NZ that meant wool, and sheep and beef meat. During WWII there were food shortages in the UK and we provided some of their food. The situation is different now. But we are still considered allies. We are in a military alliance with Australia and the US. Because we are so small and isolated and our coastline is extensive, we can't defend ourselves, and rely on mutual support with these countries. Obviously we can't make any real impact in assisting the US, but we generally contribute a token force and moral support and in return we get acknowledged by the US. We provide the airbase for the US in servicing its Antarctic scientific mission too. We fought in Vietnam, the first and second Gulf Wars, and Afghanistan. Initially we opposed the second Gulf War but later backtracked on it. We still have people in Afghanistan. Our UN peacekeepers are in numerous countries and are well known in UN circles for being good at it. We have sat on the UN security council once before and are currently trying to get a seat again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? It's extremely rare if you happen to live in a first world country full of white people, but when it happens, you defend yourself. If it happens and you live in a third world country, you'll probably be labeled a rebel, insurgent or a terrorist for defending your homeland, but you'll do it anyway because you have little choice. In fact, it won't happen in the modern era for the simple, yet horrific reason referred to as MAD -- mutual assured destruction. Nukes are extreme deterrents against invasion. So, the modern arguments regarding joining the military and defending the homeland are pretty much just propaganda-laden hogwash. ^^^^^ This Now for a really stupid story 2010 the son of good friends wanted to go in the U.S. Air Force and be in para' rescue. I worked with a retired Air Force recruiter and we did what we could but they wouldn't take him........... too many tattoos. So he left home.....couldn't stand his step father and went to live with his real father. After a few months he met with an Army recruiter, they had no qualms about his tattoo's. He finished boot camp and follow-on training by August 2010 and reported to his unit. He got married December 2010 and shipped out to Afghanistan in March 2011. In June he caught one in the chest and didn't even make it to the evac helo. In August 2012 his wife gave birth to twins. I retired from the military after 22 years and by far this haunts me the most. I didn't even serve with him but knowing all the other details surrounding this young mans life and death makes the whole thing especially sad and bitter.......and for what? Yeah, his mom clings to the notion that he died "fighting for his country" and I suppose that brings her comfort but I didn't and have yet to meet a vet from that waste of effort who thinks so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 So Islamic fundamentalism and theocracy is not a threat to civilisation? It wasn't, until Bush illegally invaded Iraq. Actually it was very much a threat long before then, it just got worse after Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Most conflict has to do with nothing more than one persons or a small group of peoples selfish ambitions........and at the expense of hundreds of thousands if not millions. It's disgusting and I have no qualm with conscientious objectors. Yep, war is stupid. But what do you do when you're being attacked/invaded? It's extremely rare if you happen to live in a first world country full of white people, but when it happens, you defend yourself. If it happens and you live in a third world country, you'll probably be labeled a rebel, insurgent or a terrorist for defending your homeland, but you'll do it anyway because you have little choice. In fact, it won't happen in the modern era for the simple, yet horrific reason referred to as MAD -- mutual assured destruction. Nukes are extreme deterrents against invasion. So, the modern arguments regarding joining the military and defending the homeland are pretty much just propaganda-laden hogwash. ^^^^^ This Now for a really stupid story 2010 the son of good friends wanted to go in the U.S. Air Force and be in para' rescue. I worked with a retired Air Force recruiter and we did what we could but they wouldn't take him........... too many tattoos. So he left home.....couldn't stand his step father and went to live with his real father. After a few months he met with an Army recruiter, they had no qualms about his tattoo's. He finished boot camp and follow-on training by August 2010 and reported to his unit. He got married December 2010 and shipped out to Afghanistan in March 2011. In June he caught one in the chest and didn't even make it to the evac helo. In August 2012 his wife gave birth to twins. I retired from the military after 22 years and by far this haunts me the most. I didn't even serve with him but knowing all the other details surrounding this young mans life and death makes the whole thing especially sad and bitter.......and for what? Yeah, his mom clings to the notion that he died "fighting for his country" and I suppose that brings her comfort but I didn't and have yet to meet a vet from that waste of effort who thinks so. Like all those who died in Afghanistan his story is tragic, absolutely. Perhaps the interventions there would be seen as less of a waste if they had started in the mid 1990s when there was still a chance to do some good. And Pakistan has a lot to answer for of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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