Your View On The Israel - Palastine Situation

[dutchie]

 

My parent´s are very pro - Israel, i mean like VERY. They always had a very strong opinion about the situation there. 

 

 

Now I don´t believe anymore, I realized my perspective is very colored due to previous biblical beliefs and my parents strong view on the situation there.

 

What is your view? 

Which websites could you advice? 

 

 

 

[Thought2Much]

Considering everyone's behavior over there, I think they should all get kicked out and replace the entire area with Disney and Universal theme parks.

[dutchie]

Considering everyone's behavior over there, I think they should all get kicked out and replace the entire area with Disney and Universal theme parks.

LOL

 

Didn´t expect this this sort of answer  

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Christopher Hitchens' book God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything has a good section on this subject.  I don't know of any websites that cover his views on Israel in any depth but it could be worth googling and it might bring up some articles he wrote.

[Orbit]

I highly recommend reading the Wikileaks/Al Jazeera diplomatic cables/letters on Israeli/Palestinian talks. I did, and coupling that with the history behind Israel's illegal expansion and apartheid state really changed my mind about supporting Israel.

 

You can find them here: http://www.aljazeera.com/palestinepapers/

[Gamecock1973]

Years ago I was a missionary to Palestinians in the West Bank.  I spent two years living there.  Ironically, while I was church planting among Muslims (and Arab Christians who I didn't deem "true" Christians), my theology and politics were SUPER pro-Israel, because of my biblical beliefs.  

 

However, it didn't take long seeing the reality of the situation there to realize that Israel was not good nor godly in any sense in the way they treated the Palestinians.  The reality caused quite an inner conflict with what my theology told me I should believe and who I should be supporting as a moral follower of a just god.  While I don't condone suicide bombing of innocents, I have no doubt that ANY person who was put in a refugee camp for 60 years under a military dictatorship would find their frustration bubbling over into violence.  In the same way an abused child will often grow up to be an abuser, Israel went from a horrific victim to a perpetrator of massive human rights evils within a generation.  Israel has gotten away with things no other first-world nation would get away with because of  collective human guilt over the holocaust,  and even more importantly, the unwavering support of Christian America which views them as god's chosen people who must be supported irregardless of behavior (this is after all, one of the reasons god is blessing 'merica!).

 

The Palestinians are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I detest Islam and groups like Hamas.  But the level of power, injustice, and evil perpetrated is by no means equal between these two people groups.  It's not even close.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

It's tragic that three of the major religions of modern times consider Israel to be the "holy" land; and yet there is more bloodshed there than just about anywhere else on earth.  holy horror, Batman!

[Thought2Much]

 

Considering everyone's behavior over there, I think they should all get kicked out and replace the entire area with Disney and Universal theme parks.

LOL

 

Didn´t expect this this sort of answer

 

 

I was going to either say that or quote Ripley from Aliens: "I say we take off and nuke the entire site form orbit. It's the only way to be sure." But I thought that may be a bit much.

[BrotherJosh]

I have a crazy theory on what will happen to Israel in the next few decades. I think as secular citizens and officials begin to enact slow change in Iran that religious extremists will start to enact slow change in Israel and the two countries will "flip roles" in the Middle East. Israel is increasingly a destabilizing force in the ME. They have nuclear weapons and an aggressive, well equipped military. As Israel becomes more Orthodox, the West will become less tolerant of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. This will fuel fear among the Orthodox of rising antisemitism and increase distrust of the US. Right-wing fundamentalism is not very popular among young US citizens so the pro-Israel lobby will have less sway over future American politics. Less political and religious Jews in the West means Israel will turn inward on itself and become more reclusive. Feeling abandoned by the US some Israeli's will see the need to establish their country as a dominant, independent military power in the ME and thus become more aggressive - in order to protect the homeland. I doubt most of this will happen, just interesting to think about...

[Adam5]

Hi, I think that if you could magically take religion out of the equation, them most of the problems there would disappear.

 

I do think Israel is an apartheid state and the Palestinians are being systematically oppressed. This causes a lot of resentment in the Muslim world and is a cause of instability in the region.

 

The Christian-Zionist view of Israel is completely delusional and one-sided.

[Mike D]

Jebus was a Jew therefore we heart Israel.

 

Oh but wait. The Jews killed Jebus, therefore Israel sucks.

 

Palestine just sucks. Not sure why, but it sucks.

 

At least that seems to be the typical Xian rationale.

 

Now I think the whole thing is a pointless waste of lives on both side. People are blowing each other up over what a bunch of delusional goat herders with heat stroke wrote in some dusty old books from the bronze age. It's crazy.

[pratt]

israel is god's chosen people,,,, palestian land was the land of milk and honey which god promised to israel, israel fucked up, god gave and took away, gave and took away,,,,,

 

and the end of the day, israel is still current god's chosen people,,,,

 

palestian should give up that piece shit of land to israel,,,,,

 

if only these stories are real.....

[Vigile]

Israel can fuck off. They have an inappropriate and undue influence on US foreign policy because they have duel citizens that have infiltrated our government with key players, not to mention the pressure applied via lobbies, such as AIPAC. And, Israel itself is an apartheid state that has repeatedly broken international treaties and laws in a systematic push back against a vastly weaker neighbor.

[RankStranger]

I really don't have any use for either side of the conflict. If it was up to me, we'd remove ourselves from the situation and let Allah sort it out.

[dutchie]

Thank everyone for you reply´s. 

 

I highly recommend reading the Wikileaks/Al Jazeera diplomatic cables/letters on Israeli/Palestinian talks. I did, and coupling that with the history behind Israel's illegal expansion and apartheid state really changed my mind about supporting Israel.

 

You can find them here: http://www.aljazeera.com/palestinepapers/

 

I will look into this! 

 

Christopher Hitchens' book God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything has a good section on this subject.  I don't know of any websites that cover his views on Israel in any depth but it could be worth googling and it might bring up some articles he wrote.

 

and this  

 

Years ago I was a missionary to Palestinians in the West Bank.  I spent two years living there.  Ironically, while I was church planting among Muslims (and Arab Christians who I didn't deem "true" Christians), my theology and politics were SUPER pro-Israel, because of my biblical beliefs.  

 

However, it didn't take long seeing the reality of the situation there to realize that Israel was not good nor godly in any sense in the way they treated the Palestinians.  The reality caused quite an inner conflict with what my theology told me I should believe and who I should be supporting as a moral follower of a just god.  While I don't condone suicide bombing of innocents, I have no doubt that ANY person who was put in a refugee camp for 60 years under a military dictatorship would find their frustration bubbling over into violence.  In the same way an abused child will often grow up to be an abuser, Israel went from a horrific victim to a perpetrator of massive human rights evils within a generation.  Israel has gotten away with things no other first-world nation would get away with because of  collective human guilt over the holocaust,  and even more importantly, the unwavering support of Christian America which views them as god's chosen people who must be supported irregardless of behavior (this is after all, one of the reasons god is blessing 'merica!).

 

The Palestinians are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I detest Islam and groups like Hamas.  But the level of power, injustice, and evil perpetrated is by no means equal between these two people groups.  It's not even close.  

 

Interesting. My parents have been to Israel many times. They have never been to the West Bank or Gaza..

They are seeing what you want to see, and (unconsciously avoiding what could alter their view of the situation there) 

 

I have a crazy theory on what will happen to Israel in the next few decades. I think as secular citizens and officials begin to enact slow change in Iran that religious extremists will start to enact slow change in Israel and the two countries will "flip roles" in the Middle East. Israel is increasingly a destabilizing force in the ME. They have nuclear weapons and an aggressive, well equipped military. As Israel becomes more Orthodox, the West will become less tolerant of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. This will fuel fear among the Orthodox of rising antisemitism and increase distrust of the US. Right-wing fundamentalism is not very popular among young US citizens so the pro-Israel lobby will have less sway over future American politics. Less political and religious Jews in the West means Israel will turn inward on itself and become more reclusive. Feeling abandoned by the US some Israeli's will see the need to establish their country as a dominant, independent military power in the ME and thus become more aggressive - in order to protect the homeland. I doubt most of this will happen, just interesting to think about...

 

Maybe if it comes trough someday you are going to be seen as a prophet, lol (really you should put a copyright on it ;-) )

[Roz]

My view on this?  Previously, I was very pro-Israel when I was a christian.

 

Now, without god glasses, I'm of the mind that we should not interfere in that situation at all.  No more financial and military aid to one side (that's Israel).

 

Without the US backing Israel up, I'm of the mind that they'll be forced to take a more civil tone if only to save their own asses.

[dutchie]

My view on this?  Previously, I was very pro-Israel when I was a christian.

 

Now, without god glasses, I'm of the mind that we should not interfere in that situation at all.  No more financial and military aid to one side (that's Israel).

 

Without the US backing Israel up, I'm of the mind that they'll be forced to take a more civil tone if only to save their own asses.

 

I actually never realized the actual size of influence the US has in Israel. Let say the US is forced to stop the financial and military aid, then still the US has a big influence

in the future of Israel by their involvement in the negotiations, etc. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

If the US could somehow be persuaded to butt out,then the UN should be in there providing humanitarian aid, processing refugees, and providing peacekeeping forces.   Trouble is, they can't do that because there is no peace to keep, thanks to the US.