On The Consequences Of Growing Up As "a Sinner"

[jobear]

it's amazing how many habits and thought patterns stem from feeling like I'm inherently a bad person and I have to apologize for existing. Owning my emotions, having needs/boundaries, making decisions based on the above, not blaming myself for everything...I have so much difficulty with these things because even now I still haven't fully internalized the idea of my right to take up space and be my own person. I'm bad, and only worthwhile because God forgives me. I'm supposed to put God's needs above my own. If I have a strong emotion I'm supposed to pray until it goes away. All these independent thoughts and needs are just more sins because I'm supposed to only care about how He wants me to live. Ugh. I don't think about it that directly anymore, but I grew up with those thoughts and I know that's a big part of why I still react to things the way I do.

[Orbit]

 

it's amazing how many habits and thought patterns stem from feeling like I'm inherently a bad person and I have to apologize for existing. Owning my emotions, having needs/boundaries, making decisions based on the above, not blaming myself for everything...I have so much difficulty with these things because even now I still haven't fully internalized the idea of my right to take up space and be my own person. I'm bad, and only worthwhile because God forgives me. I'm supposed to put God's needs above my own. If I have a strong emotion I'm supposed to pray until it goes away. All these independent thoughts and needs are just more sins because I'm supposed to only care about how He wants me to live. Ugh. I don't think about it that directly anymore, but I grew up with those thoughts and I know that's a big part of why I still react to things the way I do.

 

This might sound like an odd recommendation, but you might be surprised. It sounds like you are in a co-dependent relationship with God--or you were in the past and it has colored your life to this day. This book might help: http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400539379&sr=1-1&keywords=codependent+no+more

[Roz]

Ask yourself this.  This god who watches what you do, he's committed atrocities recorded in his holy book.  Atrocities that, if you committed them yourself, would put you in the same category as the 20th century dictators.

 

What gives that god the right to judge you, to judge your actions?  

[sparklingphoenix]

Sometimes I catch myself thinking I'm a sinner and then I try to remind myself that the god i believed in who would accuse me of sinning doesn't exist. It's hard to break those mental patterns and even harder to build up your self worth and esteem after being subjected to christian beliefs. I always thought I had to give away all my stuff and let other people go first or take things from me because it's the godly thing to do. It's not, it's self efficacy. I hope I can encourage you to keep trying and remind yourself that a fake god doesn't define anything about you. 

[Ellinas]

Seems to me that Christianity does a huge amount of damage by insisting that we deny our own egos, our own emotions, our own needs.  I put "ego" at the start of that on purpose.  True, the egotist can be unpleasant, even dangerous, but one's ego is part of what we are and what makes us human.  It's attacked through platitudes like "the centre of 'pride' is 'I'..." or such formula.  Repentance is supposed to go way beyond just "being sorry" - I know preachers who habitually speak of the need for a "broken spirit".  All this comes down to the same thing.   This belief system aims at permanent damage in order to place us in psychological fetters.

 

There is an answer, but it takes time to become accustomed to it.  Christianity teaches us to cast our whole psyche on a concept of deity - that way, we are absolved of responsibility for our actions.  By replacing the idea of sin with the idea of responsibility, and determining to be responsible for our actions, we take back command of ourselves and cast off the dead hand of a servile religion.  To do this forces us to accept the validity of our own judgement and capacity to be our own masters.

 

When you feel you are a sinner, ask yourself if you are happy that you have acted well, rather than according to the standards of a doctrine that was imposed on you.  If so, be proud that you have done well.  If not, be proud that you have the courage to admit that and to do differently in the future.  Eventually, the mindset will change.

[xkcd1129]

Jobear, I can totally relate. Years of indoctrination are difficult to ignore, even when you realize just how insane and illogical those ideas are. Christian doctrine teaches that you are worthless and don't deserve to live or be happy, merely because of the fact of your existence. Happily, that is complete bullshit! I found it very difficult to learn to assert my own self-worth and self-determination apart from the will of Big Brother. But it happens easier than you might think, and life will make a lot more sense when it does.

[wyson]

I can also totally relate. I tried to destroy my person because of this issue. I can't remember if it was Marlene Winell's book Leaving the Fold or Dorothy Rowe's book Depression, but after I read them, I started to make an special effort to listen to myself, and do what I wanted to do, whatever it was. I remember promising myself that I would never abuse myself in that way again. It was small steps at first, but gradually, I started feeling connected with myself, and then as I started doing stuff I really wanted to do, I started feeling happy, and this became a reinforcing cycle. Of course I still have my bad times / days, but now to stop and ask myself... hold it, what do I really want here? What should I do here? Even if its... I totally don't know, lets do a bit of research / talk to some people and feel it out. It so great. I'm not trying to constrict myself into a 2000 year old top down ideas box, I'm living... trying ideas out, making mistakes, learning, enjoying successes, all driven by what I want, rather than what that 2000 year old top down ideas box tells me what I SHOULD want. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child and thought as a child. But when I became a Christian man, I abused that child, told him he was worthless, and tried to put him away. Luckily, rationality gave that Christian man a slap in the face, and the child is back!

[wyson]

jobear, are you seeing a therapist, or reading books that might help? Your issues are definately something you can work through. Acceptance of myself / desires / emotions was one of the cornerstones, if not THE cornerstone of my recovery from religious trauma. I am also seriously considering therapy to highlight issues that may be hidden from me. Reading therapy and self help books may only get you so far I feel. Anyway good luck... I can still remember the anxiety I had about myself and the "real me" at that point. I was so brainwashed into thinking that as a sinner and tainted by evil, without God, I might turn into a child abuser or get involved in something else evil. It was such a dark place. I remember thinking I will be myself no matter what, even if I end up in prison. God. You know what I ended up doing... when I unleashed my evil self? I found myself a loving partner to marry and settle down with. I decided to change careers, to one that would provide greater financial stability, because suddenly money became important. You, know , so you can do stuff like buy a house, or send your kids to decent schools. Evil I know! I started to reading about politics, business and economics. Instead of thinking the earth was some sort of shithole to be scorched in the 2nd coming of christ, I started making myself at home in this life. My god, the doctrine of original sin is so twisted. If only they had shrinks in the time of Augustine of Hippo. I would have paid for his therapy out of my own pocket. Poor wretched man.