It Doesn't Make Any Sense, Does It?

[DarwinAdmirer]

There we go! Warning: it's a bit long =P

 

Hi all!

 

I’ve been here for some weeks/months now and finally took the time to write my extimony. Let me tell you how I went from standing in front of hundreds of people professing that I believed in the holy trinity, that I would work in the kingdom and build the church; to exclaiming that ‘it doesn’t make any sense at all’.

 

I’m from the Netherlands and I’ve been raised in a fairly liberal church. No strict rules whatsoever. However, since no one told me otherwise, I’ve always assumed everything they (and the bible) told me was literally true: Genesis, miracles, resurrection, and so on. I even believed that revelations would one day make sense.

 

I always wanted to be a good christian and during my high school years I went to all the youth groups I could. I assumed that since we all were christians, everyone would be really nice and it would be really easy to make friends. Turns out that’s not the case. I got bullied in one of the youth groups and never fitted in in another. However, I kept going, because I wanted to please god and one day it would all be fine.

 

I went to a christian high school, but now that I think about it, I’m not sure how many people actually were believers. I always assumed everyone was, at least culturally or vaguely. My group of friends was a mix of ‘true believers’ and people who didn’t care so much, but I was sure that in their hearts they believed there is something, because not believing at all was something I never considered a possibility. We got taught evolution in biology, but really superficially. I think it was presented as fact, but I would always laugh at that and think that it wasn’t true.

 

Then I went on to study biochemistry/molecular biology in university. There I had to seriously reconsider my position on evolution. There was no way it wasn’t true, because my classes showed me otherwise. But still, when I followed a course on evolution and someone told us ‘if life started anew on this planet, you won’t end up with humans again’, I was so relieved that I believed in god and that humans weren’t a random product, but the loved…. blablabla. So I guess at that point I believed in theistic evolution. I would read christian books on how the bible holds scientific truth, and stuff. But when I started thinking too much on how the fall could have occurred and if Adam and Eve really existed if there was evolution, I stopped researching at all and simply kept believing that god did it all, no matter how.

 

During my university years, I joined a christian student’s association. Once again trying to mix in with christians and once again failing. I have to say this was my best experience with a christian social group, but still I did not exactly fit in. Just on a side note, I went to one activity of my faculty’s student’s association once (after three years of studying), and I immediately felt at home and liked the people. I never got involved to much with that association, because they were the faculty of science association and would all be scary atheists for sure. God would love it much more if I went to the christian one and it would be much better for me. Now I realize that’s so untrue…

 

Well, that’s my background. Let’s get to the good stuff, I present you: the deconversion.

 

4 years ago I professed my faith in god in front of the church (sort of like a baptism, but without the water). In one of the meetings leading up to that moment, I couldn’t think of a single reason why people would stop believing in Jesus. Yet here I am, 4 years later, no longer believing…

 

Ever since the summer of 2012 I didn’t do a lot about my faith. I never read my bible on my own anymore, I didn’t pray and I really didn’t care. But I still believed and went to my student’s association for bible study.

 

After that summer, I started a new master’s programme and I was all enthusiastic about meeting new people and showing jesus to them. I soon fell in love with an atheist and despite all the doubts about this ‘unequal joke’, I started dating him, backed up by some verse from Paul where he says that unbelieving spouses are saved if the other one believes (cherrypicking somewhat?). After a few weeks, we had a really interesting discussion about my beliefs and it turned out that all the logical reasoning was on his side of the argument and after all my initial arguments had been rebuffed, I couldn’t think of why I believed in god other than ‘I feel his presence’.

 

This led to researching the rationality of belief once again, but no apologetic book could give me answers. I started asking myself why I believed in god and realised that the ultimate question ‘does god exist?’ is never asked. People in my student’s association were sceptical about my argument that we had to give rational reasons for non-believers to start believing, because ‘in the end it is all about surrender to god’. That wasn’t enough for me, but I did not know anymore where to find the answers to my questions.

 

Because I was still very interested in evolution, I followed a course last October on ‘evolution and the mind’. It was mindblowing. I came to realize that the concept of a soul is not as logical as most christians think and was forced to slightly alter my view to a more materialistic one. However, where does that leave god? For the final assignment, we had to read a chapter from ‘the god delusion’ by Richard Dawkins and write about whether faith and evolution were reconcilable or not.

 

Right before doing that, I was having dinner with my atheistic boyfriend and suddenly one of my christian friends came in. She had seen a miracle and was sure it was a sign from god. I was dumb struck for the rest of the evening. Was this a sign for me as well? Should I commit to my faith again?

However, when thinking about these questions a bit more, all my other doubts came to the surface and I exclaimed: ‘it doesn’t make any sense, does it?’

 

I’m still not sure how exactly I went from ‘I have to recommit myself’ to ‘it’s not true’, but that was the evening that I stopped believing. It was like a switch I turned off. There is no god. Simple as that. In the following days I wrote my assignment for the ‘evolution and the mind’ course. Instead of reading one chapter from ‘the god delusion’, I read the entire book. Finally, I found the answers I had been looking for. Finally I found rationality.

 

It hasn’t been that easy since. I was quite soon reconciled with the fact that there was no god, but I’m still struggling with everything that’s been drilled into me for years. My whole personality, all my opinions are built on my identity as a ‘child of god’. I have no clue who I am without that. I want to discover, but I feel that to do that I have to be free to be my non-believing self and I’m not. My parents would be devastated if they found out about this and I have sort of decided to not tell them yet, but to drop hints about not going to church, doubting and hopefully telling them by the end of the year. Moreover, I discover more lies about christianity almost every day and feel so naïve that I never knew this. I guess I’ve got a lot more of exploring to do about that and also about the world in general. Because that’s one thing that I’ve really figured out: the world is so much more surprising and awe-inspiring without god!

 

So that’s all I can think of for now. Thanks for reading my story! 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome to the forums DarwinAdmirer.  A lot of what you said about assuming everyone else around you believed resonates with me.  I was also educated from grammar school through university in christian schools and always figured everybody else was as serious about their beliefs as I was.  Imagine my surprise when I found out most of the kids I went to school with had been into drugs, sex, and rock'n'roll and I had missed out on all the fun because of my faith.  What a drag.

 

I also like what you said about finding out who you really are without all the garb of religion.  I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know myself for who I am and not for who jesus/church/mom wanted me to be.  Glad you could join us.

[Chez130]

No, it doesn't make sense. I had the same moment where I just suddenly didn't believe anymore. It was like waking up. I know what you mean. Thanks for your post. I know about evolution, but not to the extent you do. Maybe I need to read The God Delusion.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Welcome, glad you are here.

 

Your story was very well written and no, not too long at all

 

 

 

 

I’m still not sure how exactly I went from ‘I have to recommit myself’ to ‘it’s not true’, but that was the evening that I stopped believing. It was like a switch I turned off. There is no god.

 

That's how it was for me too. Like a switch being turned off.  

 

I haven't told my family yet, I am taking things really slowly in that area.  There's a new book by Greta Christina "Coming out Atheist".  I haven't read it but have heard it's good.  Sort of a guide for people who are planning how to come out to those close to them.

[wanderinstar]

Welcome! I too can relate to your post, especially the part about the switch being turned off. It was research relating to evolution that flicked my switch too. It is such a shock hey and a tough journey to find your real identity and be yourself around others, especially believers. Keep posting here if you feel the need, many of us have a good understanding of some of the things you are dealing with.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello DarwinAdmirer, a great post, and thank you for sharing it.  

 

Do you care to elaborate on the miracle that you friend thinks she saw?  What made you think it was not a miracle?

 

Cheers, ficino

[♦ Fuego ♦]

It took me 30+ years to think back to why I first believed, and I realized it was a childhood fear of monsters. Sometimes smart people believe things for non-smart reasons. And with others around us to re-enforce the belief, it can take a long time to see through it.

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

Yep - evolution is a big challenge to the Christian faith.  Presumably that's why quite a few Christians I know have very noisy bees in their proverbial bonnets over the issue.  At least now, having understood that Christianity makes no sense, you can settle to a life that does make sense to you.  That, for me, was a big advantage to seeing the lie behind the Christianity.

[DarwinAdmirer]

Thank you all very much for your nice comments! It means a lot to me that people here have been through the same thing and understand what I mean!

I will certainly stay around. I was thinking of posting that 'evolution and the mind' thesis I wrote about, see what you think of it.

 

I know about evolution, but not to the extent you do. Maybe I need to read The God Delusion.

 

If you want to read about evolution, I would advise other books. One that comes to mind is 'What is evolution?' by Ernst Mayr, who tries to give a short and understandable overview. I haven't finished it myself yet, but I think it's better on evolution than 'The God Delusion'. 

 

 

There's a new book by Greta Christina "Coming out Atheist".  I haven't read it but have heard it's good.  Sort of a guide for people who are planning how to come out to those close to them.

 

Thank you for sharing that! I will check it out. I think that everyone has to find their own way of doing it, but some advise will come in handy, because it's not the easiest thing I've ever done...

 

 

Do you care to elaborate on the miracle that you friend thinks she saw?  What made you think it was not a miracle?

 

Well, it wasn't so much that I didn't believe in the miracle. It was more a kind of trigger. At first I even thought that it might be a sign for me as well, but then I just realised that it didn't make sense. I don't really know how to explain it, I don't really understand myself why that was the exact moment I stopped believing. 

 

 

Sometimes smart people believe things for non-smart reasons. And with others around us to re-enforce the belief, it can take a long time to see through it.

 

Not saying I'm smart, but this reminds me of something my boyfriend said after I deconverted. He had always thought it was strange how in my studies I would be very critical and evidence-based, but when it came to faith I was very dogmatic and used to take things for granted. He didn't understand how I could do that.

For me, that was the only way to do it. I think a small part of me already realised that the critical and evidence-based thinking didn't work in favor of christianity.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Welcome! Glad you've been able to break free.

 

I was also raised to take it for granted that Christianity was true and that nonchristians were simply rebelling. It wasn't conceivable that there may actually be really good reasons to not believe.

 

Your path was different from mine (it was internal problems with the Bible that opened my eyes), but there are so many problems with the religion that there are a lot of different ways out.

 

Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

[Mycroft]

Nee maar, ik kijk voor het eerst sinds tijden weer op het forum en wat zie ik, een Nederlander!

 

Bedankt voor je post. Je verhaal heeft mij misschien net zoveel geholpen als jou. Vanwege pinksteren zijn er talloze bevriende jongeren van de kerk belijdenis aan het doen. De blije verhalen die ik dan hoor van de familie geven altijd een soort druk uit het verlden. Het is een opluchting om dan te lezen, dat ik niet alleen ben. Dat er altijd mensen zijn die blijven nadenken.

 

Dat is de sleutel. Blijf rationeel. Blijf nadenken. Als ik je verhaal zo lees heb je daar totaal geen moeite mee, maar mocht je nog vragen hebben, dan kun je hier altijd terecht. Iedereen op dit forum geeft je de ruimte om je hart te luchten, of om vragen te stellen over theorieën. Er zijn hier belezen experts op alle mogelijke levenswijzen, maar we delen hetzelfde beginsel, een breuk met het christelijk geloof.

 

Heb je het eigenlijk al aan je familie verteld? Zo ja, hoe reageerden ze?

 

Succes met de weg die voor je ligt. Het is een nieuwe start

[DarwinAdmirer]

Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

 

Thank you Citsonga! I'm sure I will!!

 

 

Bedankt voor je post. Je verhaal heeft mij misschien net zoveel geholpen als jou. Vanwege pinksteren zijn er talloze bevriende jongeren van de kerk belijdenis aan het doen. De blije verhalen die ik dan hoor van de familie geven altijd een soort druk uit het verlden. Het is een opluchting om dan te lezen, dat ik niet alleen ben. Dat er altijd mensen zijn die blijven nadenken.

 

Dat is de sleutel. Blijf rationeel. Blijf nadenken. Als ik je verhaal zo lees heb je daar totaal geen moeite mee, maar mocht je nog vragen hebben, dan kun je hier altijd terecht. Iedereen op dit forum geeft je de ruimte om je hart te luchten, of om vragen te stellen over theorieën. Er zijn hier belezen experts op alle mogelijke levenswijzen, maar we delen hetzelfde beginsel, een breuk met het christelijk geloof.

 

Heb je het eigenlijk al aan je familie verteld? Zo ja, hoe reageerden ze?

 

Succes met de weg die voor je ligt. Het is een nieuwe start

 

Dankjewel Mycroft! Fijn te horen dat mijn verhaal anderen kan steunen! 

 

Ik heb jouw verhaal uit augustus/september gelezen. Ik vind het heel dapper van je dat je het zo aan je ouders durfde te brengen! Ik ben daar zelf nog niet klaar voor, denk ik. Ik weet namelijk 100% zeker dat mijn moeder gaat huilen (Ze vroeg me afgelopen november 10 minuten voordat we ergens heen gingen ineens hoe het met mijn geloof stond en of mijn vriend me niet aan het twijfelen bracht, en toen begon ze al te huilen).

Vind je het goed als ik je een pm stuur? Ik zou graag meer over jouw verhaal horen.