Officially Official Outing

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Another way to look at his attack is called "gaslighting" which comes from an old movie where a guy tries to make his wife think she's crazy. It's a purposeful attack designed to make you question your own sanity until you change to his liking. Distance and self-determination are your friends.

[seeker001]

It sounds like you are making the moves, getting away from your parents is a very smart idea

[sdelsolray]

So a while back, I posted about how I thought I had but wasn't sure about being out to my parents. Turns out...I was. And I don't know how he found out. He wouldn't tell me anything more, but he had phrases I had written in my Sunday morning anger journal that he questioned me about and he also talked about my using worse language. I don't know how he saw that from the pulpit.

 

Anyways, I'll be brief. 

 

I cried for the whole two hours he confronted me. My dad is a lawyer and he became a pastor about 8 years ago, though he still is a lawyer. He likes to cross-examine. And that's exactly what he did. He cross-examined me, twisted my words, made me sound like a sniveling idiot. It was horrible. I kept begging him to just listen and stop twisting my words. He didn't stop. 

 

He attacked me for not telling them when I had first decided I was an atheist/humanist. I kept telling him I was afraid. He would ask why. I said that I didn't know what they would do, just I was afraid of what might happen. But that wasn't a good enough answer for him. "You don't know why you were afraid, so you couldn't have been afraid." (No logic there, but I digress.) Then he switched to attacking my convictions. "Well, if you're so convicted that your beliefs are right, then you should have been confident enough to share them." That ended up going in circles for a while.

 

He asked if my boyfriend had been "on board" with this whole thing. I told him to leave my bf out of it, but he brought him into the conversation anyways. "Was he telling you not to tell us, because that's not a good trait!" I told him no, that my bf had told me it would be okay and that I should tell them. (Of course I didn't because I was afraid.) My dad jumped on that. "So you don't trust him?" Huh? Of course I do! "No," he said, "because it sounds like he had good advice and you didn't listen to it. You don't listen to his advice? That's an unhealthy relationship! You don't trust him." (See what he's doing? I kept telling him that he was extrapolating and exaggerating, but it didn't stop him.) 

 

I tried to explain our relationship wasn't unhealthy, but I couldn't do it...he was so caught up on the fact that I didn't listen to my bf's advice on this particular occasion. "You're going to have a bad marriage! Your relationship is only built on ideas; there's nothing there!" Which is not true at all. Anyone who spent time with us would see how well-balanced and gentle and loving and sacrificial we are. He didn't understand.

 

He attacked my decision to transfer to a secular school. "Well, if you're so open-minded, then your Christian private school is the best place. They'll just teach you humanistic stuff that you already know at the secular school. You would be challenged at the private school and exposed to a different worldview." I tried to explain that I would meet more people of different worldviews at the secular school and that I had grown up in a Christian worldview so I knew it well, but he didn't listen to that either. (See the trend?)

 

He also insisted that I read lots of Christian authors like C.S. Lewis if I was so open-minded. I told him I watched lots of debates. He was like, "No, not debates."

 

He again attacked my fear of telling them. "What do they call it in psychology when someone is afraid of something but they don't know what it is?" I told him it was Generalized Anxiety Disorder, which doesn't apply to how he was using it but it applies to a pattern in life. I admitted I probably have GAD and he was like, "Well let's go see a counselor then! But it has to be a Christian counselor!" I yelled at him that I was not going to a Christian counselor. He again went back to the open-minded argument. "A counselor who believes as you do is just going to tell you stuff you know. You need someone who has a different perspective." He kept pounding this point in. I have learned in all my classes that you go to counselors with similar beliefs as you. I kept telling him that but he wouldn't have any of it. A counselor who doesn't believe like you comes to the sessions with different assumptions. It would be like me going to an ear doctor for my eye. It won't really do me much good.

 

I fired back that he wouldn't send a Christian to a counselor of another belief system and he said that he wouldn't because nonChristian counselors mess people up. (Hypocrite. Not surprised.) He also implied that the Christian doesn't need to be open-minded since they have already found the ONE TRUE GOD^TM. So basically open-minded to him means look at Christian stuff.

 

He compared my articulated beliefs to those of my aunt who committed suicide last year "because life was meaningless for her and no one cared about her". To those of my uncle who was an atheist for most of his life and just recently became a Christian. 

 

The topics changed rapidly and melted into each other. I felt like I was under so much pressure. Several times, I stopped myself from saying something because I thought that he would take my words and make it sound as though I was saying something I wasn't. And I sobbed the whole time begging him to support me.

 

Then at the end he hugged me and said he loved me. But it's been a week and I still feel as though something uglier has been driven between us. I cried a little as I had to dredge up the details for this post. The things he said to me were incredibly painful. It was not the way I wanted it to happen. But when your dad treats you like a witness for the other side and tries to find the inconsistencies and patterns in your stories instead of listening to you like a father, what other choice do I have? He wondered why I don't tell him anything anymore. Don't you see that cross-examining is good for your job but not for your family?

 

On the positive, I feel honest. I feel free. I've felt better this week than I have in months.

 

On the negative, it's super weird to know that they know.

Your father is an ass.  A. Total. Ass.  He is selfish and unwilling to let you be who you want to be.  He needs and craves control, and you are impinging on his dysfunction.

 

Provide him with basic secular and humanist concepts, such as, "I have every right to think and believe as I choose." or "Humanity's problems will only be solved by human action, not by wished for actions of imaginary sky fairies." or "I do not believe in your religion, indeed, I affirmatively believe your religion is harmful to life on this planet."

 

Stand your ground.  It may be the most important lesson in his life.

[WaitingInfinity]

My new question is whether or not it's acceptable to still be angry and sad every time I think about his confrontation with me. It has been 11 days now and I have ranged from feeling sad that he cheapened my relationship with my boyfriend and frustrated that he was so angry with me. I've felt sad to the point of crying a few times. I've also felt boiling anger that he doesn't know me. 

 

I can't look him in the eyes and every time I'm around him, I feel like I am tense and just waiting for him to say something to me.

[DoubtingNate]

Absolutely.. I would be angry and hurt too.  Have you spoken about it since then?

[milesaway]

Hell yeah it's acceptable to feel that way towards him! He's the one who basically tore you to shreds, emotionally attacked you and insulted you any way he could think of, and it was all because you got up the guts to tell him that you no longer identified with the religion he lays claim to. You thought he'd be a better person than this, and he proved you wrong. It's a really ugly truth to have to face, but now you know. He chose his superstitions over you, and that's outrageous.

 

He should seriously be ashamed of himself! There was some lingering trust you had in him, you were nothing but honest with him hoping for some support, and he threw you under the bus instead. Only you can decide for yourself how you wish to proceed with your relationship with him, if there is even gonna be one at this point. 

[WaitingInfinity]

No, we haven't spoken about it since it happened. And honestly, I don't want to. I don't want to go through another round of that.

[ToHellWithMe]

This may be somewhat risky, depending on if you are in any way dependent upon your parents financially, but you can give him the cold shoulder. When he finally notices, let him have it between the eyes. Tell him that he does not care about you as a person, only that you conform to an arbitrary image he has of you and that you are sorry he is your father. That will sting, but if he really cares, it will likely shock him and he will feel hurt. If he says you hurt him, then ask if he realized that the last confrontation you had with him hurt you.

This is a satisfying thought experiment. I personally didn't need to do anything drastic with my father to better my relationship with him. But the dreams and thoughts i had, well, those were full of bitter rage and violence. In reality, i just firmly stood my ground. I suppose that is bound to work if the other one cares. It did take many years, though, and i'm not sure whether my stubbornnes to refrain from doing anything actively was a necessity or an inhibitor in the process. Probably was a necessity for me personally.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

You will probably be on an emotional roller-coaster until you move out.  But, like others, I think you should just stand your ground.  You don't have to be militant about it; but you do need to be firm.  This, too, shall pass.

[MerryG]

 

 

This may be somewhat risky, depending on if you are in any way dependent upon your parents financially, but you can give him the cold shoulder. When he finally notices, let him have it between the eyes. Tell him that he does not care about you as a person, only that you conform to an arbitrary image he has of you and that you are sorry he is your father. That will sting, but if he really cares, it will likely shock him and he will feel hurt. If he says you hurt him, then ask if he realized that the last confrontation you had with him hurt you.

This is a satisfying thought experiment. I personally didn't need to do anything drastic with my father to better my relationship with him. But the dreams and thoughts i had, well, those were full of bitter rage and violence. In reality, i just firmly stood my ground. I suppose that is bound to work if the other one cares. It did take many years, though, and i'm not sure whether my stubbornnes to refrain from doing anything actively was a necessity or an inhibitor in the process. Probably was a necessity for me personally.

 

 

 

I suspect a girl could get away with this more than a guy could.  It is leveraging a traditional role against the big bad dad who is supposed to be the protector, not the tormentor. 

 

 

Maybe. But I wouldn't count on a human father loving and protecting his daughter any more than the alleged heavenly father does.

 

Many fathers -- especially those who can claim scriptural "justifications" to back their own creepy inclinations -- are more savage with their daughters than with their sons.