Yahweh Is A Thern? -- Analogy From Disney's "john Carter" Movie.

[Llwellyn]

Last night I watched the Disney science-fiction, fantasy movie "John Carter," which I enjoyed tremendously and which I regret did not have box-office success, and thus will not result in the two planned sequels.  Definitely better than "Avatar" or the recent Star Wars films.  In John Carter there are a group of beings called "Therns" who possess god-like powers.  Apparently they grow and consume the life of planets -- first Mars and then Earth.  In the movie one of the Therns explains the following to the protagonist, when John Carter asks "what is your cause?":

 

"Oh, we have none.  We are not haunted by mortality as you are.  We are eternal. . . . We've been playing this game since before the birth of this planet and will continue to do so long after the death of yours.  We don't cause the destruction of a world, Captain Carter. We simply manage it, feed off it, if you like. But on every host planet, it always plays out exactly the same way. Populations rise, societies divide, wars spread. And all the while, the neglected planet slowly fades."

 

It seems that Christianity tells the same story about Yahweh's relationship with the planet Earth.  He created it, manages it with an economy of death ("the wages of sin is death") and will ultimately be glorified by its destruction.  A certain segment of the human population will be preserved to the degree they agree that there is a beauty to the ruination.  The Bible explains this about god-man relations:  "God will shoot them with arrows; suddenly they will be struck down. He will turn their own tongues against them and bring them to ruin; all who see them will shake their heads in scorn. All mankind will fear; they will proclaim the works of God and ponder what he has done."  Psalm 64:7-9

 

What do you think?  Is Yahweh a "Thern," feeding off of dying planets?

 

[mymistake]

Wouldn't be the first time fiction turned to the Bible for negative inspiration.  Sure, it fits.  It's a fine explanation.

[MerryG]

Yahweh is clearly nastier than a Thern. After all, that Thern actually bothered to explain himself to a mere human being. Yahweh? Not a chance he'd be so decent!

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Yahweh is clearly nastier than a Thern. After all, that Thern actually bothered to explain himself to a mere human being. Yahweh? Not a chance he'd be so decent!

 

But the Thern that revealed this information to John is just one of them. The rest of the Therns are probably nowhere near as decent as the one that explained what they were up to, so Yahweh could easily be one of them.

[mymistake]

Yahweh explained it to Abraham.  "You worship me and I will give you the land from all the other people I fuck over."

 

If you read the Old Testament again the first covenant is a business deal.  God is buying worshipers.  The punishments are the breach-of-contract penalties.

[Llwellyn]

To his credit, Yahweh has explained that he will bring evil, curses, lies and destruction upon humanity:  "The LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you."  Joshua 23:15 (New International Version).  It's just that Christians either do not read those passages, or they think that somehow they will be justified by believing the scheme of salvation that Yahweh brought to them.  But it may be that Yahweh has some special horrors planned for those who believe:  "God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth."  2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (New International Version).

 

[seven77]

I don't believe that Yahweh was a Thern.

 

Most space operas are themed around the eternal in way or another. Space is the universe and every space opera wants there to be something/someone at the center of it all. Every alien race is a possible God, or gods, or a group of lost souls just like us. They are all faces of the struggle of humankind.

 

My personal favorite space opera theory related to God is the original Star Trek pilot, The Cage and its antagonists, the Talosians. The Talosians were collecting two of every spieces, to breed for their zoo/planet. They were playing God in a very literal sense. The only way to accomplish this was to force the creatures to breed and first, the creatures must be attracted to one another. The Talosians locked the creatures in cages, drugged them and used their superior mental forces to bend the wills of said creatures.

 

I thought that the Talosians were more like Yahweh than any other portrayal. The Thern were vultures and admittedly so. They didn't create the universe though. They were just feeding off of it. Perhaps toying with it from time to time. The Thern were not demanding worship either. They were just there, consuming the end. If anything, the Thern were creature of Revelation, revealing the truth of the ugliness of human nature. The Thern were merely enforcing entropy, ensuring the end of all. Whereas the Talosians were actively creating from the beginning, creating the illusions that they were the superior beings whose will(s) were to be obeyed at all times, at all costs. They fed their creatures powerful illusions, sustained these illusions until Captain Pike shattered their power with the truth of human nature, hate.

 

The joke was ultimately on all parties as the Talosians revealed themselves to be neither omniscent (they couldn't read the thoughts of all creatures, didn't know the true power of human emotion and didn't know what humans actually looked like) or omnipotent (they couldn't control Captain Pike or the other women that they transported to the Cages). In the end, it was revealed that the Talosian world was an illusion and that reality was subjective. We create it in our own image.

 

-----

 

In regards to 2 Thess 2:10-11, it seems to suggest that perhaps God is an illusion/delusion and that the truth may very well be as expressed in many works of science fiction.

[Llwellyn]

In regards to 2 Thess 2:10-11, it seems to suggest that perhaps God is an illusion/delusion and that the truth may very well be as expressed in many works of science fiction.

 

This is certainly the approach of L. Ron Hubbard who parlayed his pulp fiction space opera into a religion.  Not sure if it made him and the scientologists happy in the end.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOY3hnA9TA

[seven77]

Good ol' L. Ron! Every time, I think of that South Park episode about Scientology.

 

Admittedly, Scientology is a big crock, just like every other faith. I only give L. Ron credit for turning his space opera into a religion. So far, the Trekkies have not done the same.

[Llwellyn]

We have no motive for obeying Him. Not even fear. It is true we have His threats and promises. But why should we believe them? If cruelty is from His point of view 'good,' telling lies may be 'good' too. Even if they are true, what then? If His ideas of good are so very different from ours, what He calls Heaven might well be what we should call Hell, and vice-versa.

[rach]

Do you mean that Yahweh has a secret plan to punish even the faithful followers? It would seem unwise for anyone to trust and obey Yahweh, given his nature and behavior toward unbelievers, and even toward believers. It seems the main motivation people have for believing in and obeying Yahweh is fear.

I like what you said earlier about Yahwheh and Satan being two sides of the same individual.  If I were to be locked in a room with one of them, I'd choose Satan.  Yahweh is a lot creepier.  He (if existant) is playing some kind of fatal game where only he knows the rules and he constantly changes the rules, nobody else knows how to play, and the point seems to be that in the end he has won the game and everybody else from his die-hard followers to his die-hard enemies, has been played and destroyed. 

 

When I came out of the Christian fog I'd been in all my life I started to realize that Yahweh's plans and promises absolutely can never be relied upon.  His character as shown in the "holy word" demonstrates a person that takes delight in deception (Jeremiah 20:7, Ezekiel 14:9).  He particularly seems to enjoy playing a game where he makes people believe he is about to bless them and do wonderful things with them but then when they've fallen for it, he turns it around and does evil things to them (1 Thesselonians 5:3).  We have to presume that all Yahweh's promises of peace and safety especially as pertains to eternal life in paradise are only part of the game he is playing.  Building people's hopes up only to enjoy the satisfaction of crushing them.  I believe that this Yahweh character is real and that this world is his playing board.  That's why I take this ex-Christian stuff so seriously.  Die-hard believers like my a-mum are blind and cannot see that they are being played.  They are being lulled into a false security with promises of eternal peace and happiness.  Promises that cannot and will not ever be fulfilled.  "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see" has taken on a whole new meaning.  I feel like I have seen the man behind the Yahewh mask and he is one sick fucker.  Now I have to make other people see that. 

[rach]

rach,

 

Thanks for your reply. I hope you see this post. (I apologize that I cannot get the "quote" and "paste" functions to work for me.)

Your scenario of Yahweh playing a game on us all is fascinating. I agree that Satan is a more consistent and predictable character than Yahweh is. Could the pantheon of Judeo-Christian gods be the multiple personalities of one schizophrenic entity? In what way do you think Yahweh is real? What type of entity or being is he?

 

+ Human

 

Yes I am convinced that we are all subjects in some type of very sick game or experiment.  And yes I do think that Yahweh has multiple personalities syndrome with "Satan" being one of the multiple personalities, and Jesus another one.  I believe there are probably many different gods ruling the universe and my definition of a god would be someone with great spiritual powers.  I do suspect that Yaweh is real for several different reasons.  First of all I've had many years worth of studying his character in the bible and it is very consistent with the type of world we are living in, so I feel it is likely that he is the creator of this world.  Yahweh is violent and unpredictable and that's the kind of world we live in.  Yahweh demands sacrifices in order to do good things which is also the type of world we live in for instance: animals being sacrificed for food, or soldiers sacrificed in wars.  The other reason is that during the years that I was really "on fire" as a Christian I felt I was encountering some supernatural forces.  So there was spiritual powers that I was encountering through my Christian efforts but the powers were dark powers and not good.  It was like a power of supernatural force was controlling my brain making me unable to think critically, making me like a puppet that is under some other person's power.  There also was a force I felt one time when I "rejected Jesus" outloud it was like a hot finger touched my heart and made me sad.  That was another supernatural experience.  Another thing was I had a few experiences where I had knowledge about events that hadn't happened yet and then those events came true.  One was an accident that I foresaw my friend having and to my surprise (and horror) it did end up happening.  So my conclusion was that doing all this Christian stuff was connecting me with the Christian god, but most of it was a very bad and scary experience.  I think that Yawheh is sadistic and just likes to experiment with people even putting them through extreme things to see what happens (like Job). 

[gall]

 

In regards to 2 Thess 2:10-11, it seems to suggest that perhaps God is an illusion/delusion and that the truth may very well be as expressed in many works of science fiction.

 

This is certainly the approach of L. Ron Hubbard who parlayed his pulp fiction space opera into a religion.  Not sure if it made him and the scientologists happy in the end.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOY3hnA9TA

 

 

He did say:

 

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.

• Response to a question from the audience during a meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association on (7 November 1948), as quoted in a 1994 affidavit by Sam Moskowitz.

 

Christianity isn't that much more far fetched than chilling with Xenu. Both make a ton of money.

[rach]

rach,

what recourse, if any, do you think Humanity has against Yahweh and/or other such beings who are antagonistic towards humans? Is there any other deity (using that term broadly), or perhaps even the power of human nature itself, that can overcome Yahweh and the others?

+ Human

I don't think all humans put together could be as powerful as one god.  We are at the mercy of the gods in my opinion.  The recourse for us is just to be better than them.  If the gods are doing sick shit it doesn't mean any of us have to join in.  There might be a war someday between humans and evil gods in that case we're probably fucked.  I believe in at least one good diety and that is the great spirit creator.  If there are a bunch of gods there must be a god that's the strongest one of all and maybe he is good.  I do try to impress the gods with my life.  I hope to win favour with any good god that might be out there watching me.  I try to become more refined as a person, more educated, more valuable to the world, hoping to win the favour of the gods. 

[rach]

rach,

do you post in the "Ex-Christian Spirituality" forum?

 

+ Human

I don't remember if I have before or not.  I think I'm fairly unique on this forum for my belief in living, malevolent dieties and the way that influences my life and decisions.