Super Moderator Popular Post TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 26, 2014 Super Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2014 So I got a visit today from a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses. Sadly, I only had forty-five minutes before I had to take Redneck Jr. to the doctor to get his shots for school. Nonetheless, I invited them in and asked Redneck Jr. to sit in and listen to our conversation. Apparently, they were really excited about a new article in The Watch Tower concerning dealing with tragedy, so they used that as their opening "hook". I countered with the old "why does god allow tragedy in the first place" line of questioning. As it turns out, there was another article dealing with just that issue. So, the younger of the two, a middle aged African American female, proceeded to read from the article, citing about a half-dozen scriptures speaking to the justice, righteousness, and loving kindness of the lord. Being that she was of African lineage, I asked if she really believed the lord was righteous, just, and loving, given that he had commanded slavery and even made it law that slaves were allowed to be beaten to within an inch of their lives. At which point the other Jovie, an older white man chimed in about "year of Jubilee" blah, blah, blah. I countered that he should read his scripture closely and basically [insert Roz quotes here]. He was dumbfounded by [again, Roz knows his shit]; and said he would have to study it closer. I suggested he do so and get back to me when he's ready to admit that god is anything but just, loving, and kind. We then turned to the idea of Original Sin, at which point Redneck Jr. produced his Brick Bible and showed them the Lego set depicting the Serpent, Adam and Eve. They insisted that because we have all sinned, blah, blah, blah... So I retorted that [brief summary of "god's Mighty Plan for Salvation] and an equally [brief dash of "god Is A Liar"]. They were completely flabbergasted with the realization that Adam had no way of knowing what death was, even if god used it as a threat. Older white man even tried to convince me that Adam experienced death because "animals were dying all the time in the garden". "Consider the common housefly, with an average life-span of two days," he cajoled. "Point to the scripture that supports your claim," I rejoined. "If you can't, we can dismiss the claim as unsound." The subject then turned to how the universe began and how the order in reality must have been intelligently... "Nah, guys, seriously, examine the [bAA talks about the inflation hypothesis] and the [seriously, BAA is a bad-ass when it comes to this kind of stuff]. A quick retreat from my guest ensued. I then shifted the focus onto free will versus god's omniscience and [take my son to the candy store analogy]. "In such a case, does my son have free will?" No answer. "Okay, god does the same thing by telling us we have free will but must use it to choose what he wants us to choose. Do we, then, have free will?" Again, stony silence in reply. Finally we considered the problem of evil. Their insistence that we brought it on ourselves prompted me to go down Epicurus Street [is god able to prevent evil but not willing...]. With no answer to the question "whence cometh evil?" I proffered Isaiah 45:7. Middle aged African American was ready to quit; Older White Man just said, "It's clear you have studied the bible, perhaps more than I. I am saddened by the fact that you have lost your faith." Sadly, the time had come for me to get Redneck Jr. ready for his appointment. I thanked them for their time and invited them to visit any time they wanted to. Older White Man said he'd like to, if it was okay with Middle Aged African American female. I asked him why he would need to clear it with her, given that St. Paul was quite clear on women not being allowed authority. Neither responded, so with a firm handshake, I said, "Y'all come back, now; ya hear?" ... I am SOOOOOO stoked that Redneck Jr. finally got to see, firsthand how to debate with theists in a calm, rational, logical fashion. He and I had a conversation about it later and we discussed that it's okay to disagree with others, so long as he remains polite and cordial. I also reinforced the idea of being able to present a clear, lucid, and consistent argument while allowing his counterlocuters to present their ideas and arguments as best as they can. All in all, I had an effin' awesome time. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 RN Jr. got ringside seats to logic 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 26, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 26, 2014 RN Jr. got ringside seats to logic 101 I gotta tell you, Roz, your slavery arguments were completely priceless. Thank you for being on this website. Your thoughts on the Amalekites even came into play a few times. Damn, I love a good fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The black JW must've been taken aback by those verses, I know I was when I first read the whole damn chapter of Lev. 25 straight through. RN Jr.'s learned a lesson I still have to relearn sometimes. The slavery with me having slave ancestors makes it a bit hard to remain polite, but it's really needed: "He and I had a conversation about it later and we discussed that it's okay to disagree with others, so long as he remains polite and cordial. I also reinforced the idea of being able to present a clear, lucid, and consistent argument while allowing his counterlocuters to present their ideas and arguments as best as they can." EDIT: his generation just might be the first one where atheists are generally tolerated and don't carry our stigma today, which is great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 This is why I love this site so much. For the most part, it is populated by highly intelligent people and we are all the better from being able to learn from the knowledge of everyone else who joins in our conversations. You made this explicitely clear in your op, where you showed how you used the arguments from other members. Every one of us is smart, but put us all together and the paltry claims made by theists stand no chance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 "Consider the common housefly, with an average life-span of two days," he cajoled. "Point to the scripture that supports your claim," I rejoined. "If you can't, we can dismiss the claim as unsound." I'm going to steal that. I love turning their "if it ain't in the bible, it ain't true" nonsense against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Sadly, the time had come for me to get Redneck Jr. ready for his appointment. I thanked them for their time and invited them to visit any time they wanted to. Older White Man said he'd like to, if it was okay with Middle Aged African American female. I asked him why he would need to clear it with her, given that St. Paul was quite clear on women not being allowed authority. Oh man, that whole episode was epic. Wish we had it on film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Well done, Prof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 and it did not end with kumbaya prayer,,,, i am disappointed with you prof,,,, hahahaha,,, i believe you folks n jws had a wonderful fellowship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 That was sweet. I'll bet most of us are aware of nearly everything you used as rebuttal material, but few -- VERY few of us can recall it so quickly as to keep the conversation moving along like that. Hats off to you! :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Well done, Prof! Redneck Jr is a lucky lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Great job! Speaking of Jehovah's Witnesses, I've lived about a half mile from a Kingdom Hall for nine years. When I first moved in here, I was sure that they'd be bothering me a good bit, but surprisingly, they've never once knocked on the door when I've been home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 26, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted July 26, 2014 That is one lucky Junior Redneck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 My last encounter lasted all of five minutes with the guy hastily retreating and saying he didnt want to argue, where upon I said, well you came to my door with your ideas,and you dont want a discussion?? sigh .. I so like doing that 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 That was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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