Cousin Ricky Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I am currently on call for jury duty. So far, they’ve called me in only once. We were sworn in en masse, and the clerk concluded with the words, “... so help you God?” I seriously did not expect a federal court (USA) to assume that all the jurors believed in God (whatever god the court had in mind) in 2014. It’s not like this was an Alabama district court or something. I was too stunned to react, so I just said “I do” along with everyone else. I was not selected, and when they dismissed us, they essentially shooed us out the back door, so I had no opportunity to give feedback. Next time they call me, I’m going raise the issue before they lead us into the courtroom. This needs to be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I am currently on call for jury duty. So far, they’ve called me in only once. We were sworn in en masse, and the clerk concluded with the words, “... so help you God?” I seriously did not expect a federal court (USA) to assume that all the jurors believed in God (whatever god the court had in mind) in 2014. It’s not like this was an Alabama district court or something. I was too stunned to react, so I just said “I do” along with everyone else. I was not selected, and when they dismissed us, they essentially shooed us out the back door, so I had no opportunity to give feedback. Next time they call me, I’m going raise the issue before they lead us into the courtroom. This needs to be heard. In my area you can decline any sort of religious affirmation in a court room in favor of a civil one. You could therefore decline and say "I do not" and tell them you will only swear in a civil capacity and do not believe in god. I would really hope that if a seperation of church and state actually still exists (or ever did) in the current courts in 2014 that they would not give you a hassle and would have a plan in place to allow for you to exercise your religious freedom. Or your freedom from religion and god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If you ask to just affirm, they'll let you. Its not uncommon. It also might be better to write an oped or something rather than make a scene in federal court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 22, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 22, 2014 You could say "on my honor" or "I so affirm" or just keep silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkcd1129 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Before I started my job working in a government office (in Canada) I had to sign an oath of confidentiality, which, maddeningly enough, contained the conspicuous phrase "so help me God" (or some other such meaningless pronouncement). You can opt out of it, but I find it amazing that it's still even included. If I swore by Yahweh, the bloodthirsty god of iron-age Palestine, they should be trusting me LESS, not more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 "I affirm" is the legal alternative to swearing under oath. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The oath for a juror or a witness is intended to solemnize the occasion and focus the person's mind on telling the truth in an important proceeding where peoples' lives hang in the balance. It was thought that even though perjury could not always be detected and punished by the government, it could be punished by God, and thus an oath would invoke the deity who could punish perjury. The law has to operate under the assumption that in-court testimony is valid evidence of the truth of the matter asserted -- this assumption has to rely on some kind of heavy-duty certification by the testifying party. I think it is still helpful and legitiate to talk about a God in a juror's or witnesses' oath. Belief in God is still common in society and likely always will be. The oath simply "talks their language" and motivates them in terms that are real to them. "Do you swear (or affirm) that... nothing but the truth (so help you God)?" You can always say yes with the mental reservation concernin the parenthetical words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Ricky Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 The difficulty is that the jurors were all sworn in en masse. There was no opportunity to ask for a separate affirmation, no “or affirm” language, and then there was the “so help me God”—no opportunity to opt out. That’s why I will need to raise the issue before we go into the courtroom. I do not wish to invoke mental reservation. That is a form of staying in the closet, which perpetuates perversities such as a secular court presuming that everyone believes in the god. It gives the impression that there is not a problem. Plus, in this context, I consider it a mockery of the justice system to tacitly lie about myself in the process of being asked to uphold the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The Freedom From Religion Foundation gets involved in these kinds of issues, sends letters on behalf of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Here's a website for a U.S. District Court that says jurors may "affirm" rather than swear. But it says nothing about "God." http://www.flnd.uscourts.gov/jurors/jurySelection.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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