themonkeyman Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Hi Folks, As we know Jesus 'Predicted' the Destruction of the Temple in AD 70, Since I have never even when I was a Christian read the book of daniel I have no Idea weather or not Daniel actually predicted the destruction too or weather it is just Dirty Christian apologists making shit smell like roses. Bascially can someone 1) Prove that Jesus did not predict the temple (E.g. I think the Gospels were written after this fact? Does Bart Ehrman agree or what is his take on it?) 2) Prove that Daniels 70 weeks were just word games by Christians. I know if I spoke to a Jew I would get a radically different answer but I just want short and sweet weather its bull or not? -- Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 the gospels were indisputably written after the temple was destroyed. It's not even up for debate, really. With Daniel, i can't give specifics off the top of my head, but most critical scholarship I've picked up on has shown that 99% of apocalyptic literature is not what fundamentalists say it is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Don't those making positive claims have the burden of proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 There is a thread over on earlywritings posted by a Christian who claims to have worked out the 70 weeks so that they are an amazing prophecy of Jesus. His position is debunked by a lot of other people on there (I threw in my two cents too). http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=662 One of the problems is that there are so many possible starting and ending dates for the 70 weeks that nothing clear comes out of the thing. Another problem with Daniel is that a lot of details match the history of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires pretty closely until the time that Antiochus Epiphanes "defiled" the temple. After that, it gets very vague. So it's pretty clear that these parts of Daniel were written in the 160s BCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The fact it has to be interpreted and explained is debunking enough. If you read itself in The Bible (without "assistance" from believers) you would pass over it without regard. Note those that accept such things as proof, soon sod off when faced with Biblical texts they don't like. Every single believer I have faced down with Luke 6:30 have buggered off very quickly. In fact to any lurking Christians on here, Jesus asks that you give all to those that ask of Ye.......I ask that you publicly (through your local news outlets) sell all that you have to give to the poor........remember this is a command of Jesus, to ignore is to endanger your very soul....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Hi Folks, As we know Jesus 'Predicted' the Destruction of the Temple in AD 70, Since I have never even when I was a Christian read the book of daniel I have no Idea weather or not Daniel actually predicted the destruction too or weather it is just Dirty Christian apologists making shit smell like roses. Bascially can someone 1) Prove that Jesus did not predict the temple (E.g. I think the Gospels were written after this fact? Does Bart Ehrman agree or what is his take on it?) 2) Prove that Daniels 70 weeks were just word games by Christians. I know if I spoke to a Jew I would get a radically different answer but I just want short and sweet weather its bull or not? -- Cheers 1) I doubt anyone can "prove" it but there is also no proof the gospels were written before 70 CE. Considering that Jesus predited he would return within the lifetimes of his followers and failed to do so would indicate he had no special ability to predict much of anything. 2) Christians constantly hype Dan 9 as an amazing prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. In the process, they misread the text, ignoring that there are two anointed ones in the timeline rather than only one, they break the prophecy into two parts, 69 weeks, and then 1 week that comes thousands of years later, and they ignore the specification for an anointed one to be cut off and the city to be destroyed at about the same time. That didn't happen. If Jesus was this anointed one, he died around 30-33 CE. The city wasn't destroyed until 70 CE. That's way too late to fulfill the prophecy. I would recommend the search function for more details on this issue. There have been many threads on Dan 9, including one with an explanation by a Jewish rabbi. In short, the Christian spin on Dan 9 is bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Daniel creeps up on this forum from time to time. OK accepting it as absolute proof that Jesus is God, The Bible is true, etc you would think it would encourage believers in it, to walk a more Biblical inspired life (abandon their families, renounce the world, but it doesn't). Also if it is proof beyond all doubt, why doesn't the church scream it from the roof tops, display it on every sign. Note Daniel is "proof", yet any other failed prophecy let alone failed and ignored prayer is "mysterious" I wonder what "proofs" the Muslims have that is so convincing they are willing go fly planes into Manhattan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Yeah that's what I was thinking. As soon as I found there are two Christian view points so thiss sort of goes up on the bull shit radar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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